South Eastern Highspeed: Hs1 Fencing

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Aran, Jan 21, 2021.

  1. Aran

    Aran Well-Known Member

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    The trailer for the upcoming route for TSW 2 looked promising, at least it did up until this shot of a Class 395 Unit on HS1. One thing that is painfully obvious is that there is absolutely no Fencing or Wall between the High Speed Line and the older National Rail line on the left. In real life however, there is defenitely some sort of blockage the to prevent anyone from crossing the High Speed line as seen in the real life phote from roughly the same area.

    Helf and Savetey..PNG
    Health and Safety.png
    While I completely understand that not everything can be replicated to 100% accuracy, I do expect a basic representation of what can be seen in real life, especially this close to the track. I hope that these Screenshots are outdated and the fence is now in place, or that they can still be added in the two week period before release. Some areas look like they haven't been touched since the Auto Gen tool put down the first layer which was already an issue on LGV, so I hope this is not a trend that we will see going forward.
     
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  2. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    I'm not going to lie, I was thinking "here we go again" when we had a big thing with the ballast on the LGV, however that's a bit odd they've managed to leave that out.
     
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  3. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    It's particularly disappointing to see that the TS1 version of this route looks a lot more detailed and accurate in comparison.

    Some of these promo shots for SEHS really do look rushed and incomplete.

    TS1 screenshot below:
    upload_2021-1-21_22-41-40.png
     
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  4. Mattty May

    Mattty May Guest

    The fence will probably be MIA on release and remain so. I doubt it’ll be a priority as it wouldn’t have been left out in the first place. After all, you can’t miss it in those pictures.
     
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  5. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    I hope it's the sort of thing like 3rd rail in TS1 routes - it's often the last thing to go in (and indeed some pre-release screenshots don't show it) purely because it gets in the way when you're trying to edit the route, and it'll be added once they're done with the rest of the scenery.
     
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  6. SprattyHeath

    SprattyHeath Well-Known Member

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    The ballast is also totally wrong, it's not meant to be completely weathered like it is in TSW.

    Best example is at Stratford Intl.[​IMG][​IMG]
     
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  7. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    I'll be working on a lot of patches and fixes to resolve these inaccuracies and issues.
     
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  8. a.paice

    a.paice Well-Known Member

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    I knew it looked wrong but couldn’t put my finger on it. I really hope they don’t rush it.

    The trains themselves and the stations look wonderful as usual but I’ve got a terrible feeling the detail on the route won’t be there. Tbh I’d rather they delay it by a month to get it right.

    But we mustn’t judge until we see a stream of course!
     
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  9. Aran

    Aran Well-Known Member

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    I hope you're right, if they add the fence one of my biggest complaints will be fixed. Unfortunately I wouldn't be surprised if they leave it how it is, it wouldn't be the first time they miss out important detail after all.
     
  10. Aran

    Aran Well-Known Member

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    While that is great to hear, any changes made to the HS 1 balast will also apply to the balast on the classic lines as they very obviously use the same texture. So there is only so much you can do without DTG helping.
     
  11. Jalio

    Jalio Active Member

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    The first two pictures, they look so different it's actually disappointing. Can't be bothered to create a realistic scene so slap greenery instead.
     
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  12. 59321747

    59321747 Well-Known Member

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    Don't expect too much of DTG in the production scene, but please don't be sad, just get used to it, and don't compare it with the real scene, It will also make DTG sad.
     
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  13. ZeenozPlays

    ZeenozPlays Well-Known Member

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    If only it wasn’t like that in the first place, so people like you don’t have to work to fix something like this. Also, consoles...
     
  14. ZeenozPlays

    ZeenozPlays Well-Known Member

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    It’s like that on a lot of routes. Most notably on LGV.
     
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  15. ZeenozPlays

    ZeenozPlays Well-Known Member

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    How does TSxx look better than TSW when TSW has the better graphics engine and all that? Unbelievable. Come on DTG, please fix these issues, this is a popular/heavily anticipated route, and you don’t want people to start getting overly negative on the route when it releases because you forgot/just didn’t add fences and other things to make it more accurate.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2021
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  16. ZeenozPlays

    ZeenozPlays Well-Known Member

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    Very unfortunate. It's things like that, which upsets part of the community, sparking the "negative" threads.
     
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  17. LucasLCC

    LucasLCC Well-Known Member

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    I don't get sad, I just vote with my wallet. Didn't buy LGV because it resembles a German forest and didn't buy IoW because Rivets attention to detail isn't amazing.

    If the fence is missing on release then that is a really big omission. It's not like it's a small fence a long way from the track...
     
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  18. Snek

    Snek Well-Known Member

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    I will wait till the stream/release to judge. One thing I've noticed with this community is that all it takes is one or two people to point out some inaccuracies and everyone labels the dlc as horrible and rushed. I'm not saying it's not deserved but it's funny because pretty much every route is the same with inaccuracies everywhere, yet you praise some and criticise others.

    Though the fence should really be there

    The same happened with LGV, the route looks better than most and yet you get this:
    I don't think you've played/seen the route at all, it actually looks great and definitely nowhere near a "German forest". The climate feels much different than anything else in tsw.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2021
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  19. Aran

    Aran Well-Known Member

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    Yes I've defenitely noticed that, Ididn't notice a lot of bugs and mistakes before I started getting invoved with the community. But that doesn't take away from the fact that that fence should defenitely be there. And it's not necessarily a bad thing that more people are made aware of the wrong and missing details.
     
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  20. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    Don’t worry, the ballast is also wrong. So is the catenary, but we’ve not got onto that yet. Unless there’s a thread about it that I haven’t read yet.

    I won’t lose any sleep over a fence or ballast colour or catenary poles but if I see one tree that looks remotely German I’m going to kick off.
     
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  21. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    Oh I've found something much worse.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Same location.
    That bridge going over the line with the Javelin is completely wrong.
    Thanks to byeo for pointing that out.
     
  22. byeo

    byeo Well-Known Member

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    Just seen this post, my god that's shoddy and lazy. It's not even close to being similar. Why do they do this? They do a great job on the trains then cut corners on the scenery? Really bugs me.
     
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  23. Aran

    Aran Well-Known Member

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    Yes I saw that too, but I was going to wait until the stream today before I post a thread for that. The structure isn't as clear as I would like it to be in that screenshot and we will probably get a better look at how bad it actually is when they drive the route.
     
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  24. dave from Cornwall

    dave from Cornwall Well-Known Member

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    hang on...people complaining about ballast?

    Err it does get replaced periodically?

    Why can it not be weathered or fresh?

    If anyone looks at the Networkrail twitter feed they are doing the St Ives line up all posh for the summer...that has now got fresh set of clean ballast as they are replacing the track?

    As we shuttle along at x mph does anyone really stop and look at bridge and complain that its the wrong type of concrete? Or do we just accept that there is a bridge there? Isn't the last picture Googles own artistic/AI interpretation of a bridge? Google also seem to have a rather wonky track which would cause an instant derailment...if we going down that line of attack?

    Lets see when in the next few weeks its released then we can all have a proper whinge that it needs extending to x, y, z and would be so much better if train a, b, or c was added?
     
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  25. Aran

    Aran Well-Known Member

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    Yes, people complaining about ballast.

    It's not a case of weathered or fresh, the stones are a completely different colour, and HS1 has never had ballast that looks like that. Keeping in mind that the route is set after 2019 and the ballast was defenitely not brown then.

    And no-one is saying anything about extensions and/or trains, we know what's coming and it will be a very vocal minority that won't stop complaining about it. However, if DTG completely miss out a big fence right next to the track and get the ballast colour completely wrong then that is very unforunate and defenitely a reason to criticize the route and the DTG for letting it through in that state.
     
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  26. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    I think that with longer routes the route building teams are going to be under pressure and have to build much more quickly and don’t have the time to be as accurate. That’s my guess for any individual things that look different. Maybe not so much for things that are used along a whole route but certainly for what bridge asset they might choose or similar.

    Some people want longer routes, some want more accurate routes. The price stays the same, the dev time stays the same, so you can’t expect both. It’s an either or situation. This route is over 50 miles long. Only certain key areas are going to have the same level of attention to detail as a route half that length. There is twice as much scenery to make after all. It’s something we have to live with. Some inaccuracies are going to irk more than others.

    PS The ballast is better than in the same route in TS. Much better.
     
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  27. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    We're not talking about the wrong type of concrete - we're talking about a bridge that looks completely different to its real-life counterpart.

    It is Google's AI version based on satellite images (see below), so does that completely void the point?
    upload_2021-1-22_11-22-20.png

    Normally, I wouldn't really care but it does feel very slap-dash - especially for a route that is local to DTG.
     
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  28. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    I would like to point out - I'm more concerned at that fence, because it makes the route look unfinished. The bridge I can live with.
     
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  29. dave from Cornwall

    dave from Cornwall Well-Known Member

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    Ah yes you can see the splice in the satellite image that creates the wonky track!
     
  30. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    You will be pleasantly surprised at how accurate it is. You can see the box tunnel if you zoom in on the screenshot.
     
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  31. Aran

    Aran Well-Known Member

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    Which is why I decided to wait, The bridge looks very wrong in the screenshot but seeing it on the stream might prove otherwise, even though I doubt it.
     
  32. Aran

    Aran Well-Known Member

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    Another thing that's wrong with that is the incline to the side of the tracks, in real life there are very obviously plants and gras there, in TSW it's just a dirt texture.
     
  33. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    Autogen is supposed to help with this. As it lays down the ‘foundations’ of the route such as ground textures and I think things like hills, too.

    The issue with this is if the developers rely on this too much, and not manually place down enough scenery like they did in the past, then areas can look very bleak and plain.

    Some of the screenshots highlight this issue, such as the one shown below.
    483B284D-CFD4-4AE3-8725-85411DA2E98B.jpeg
     
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  34. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    If that is true, I hope they don't go down the route of what Thompson did with GARL and Edinburgh-Glasgow in TS1, where in the Steam screenshots (especially on the GARL) quite clearly show the edge of the map. upload_2021-1-22_12-15-35.png
    upload_2021-1-22_12-16-49.png
     
  35. Aran

    Aran Well-Known Member

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    I don't think we'll be seeing that anytime soon, but what it will lead to is ceratain areas being extremely bland and empty, including right next to the track. The best example being the lack of any sort offence directly next to the track, I would bet that that only happened because of Auto-Gen
     
  36. Zammy Martínez

    Zammy Martínez Active Member

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    One of my biggest complaints is also the opening/releasing of doors, why is that always missed on every bloody dlc, the only doors that open on release without passengers having to press is, bakerloo line, probably lirr and im sure thats about it. Im about to raise that query now because its quite annoying that they fail to authenticate these simple things - just like your initial point about the wall/fence on the high speed line
     
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  37. WVUadam

    WVUadam Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps it should get delayed so the route can be more authentic.
     
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  38. Aran

    Aran Well-Known Member

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    That would be nice to see, but DTG are not going to do that. The Devs might favour it but whoever's at the top has set the deadline and will make sure it's kept to
     
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  39. Trainman525

    Trainman525 Well-Known Member

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    I though tit had already been delayed. Well it was at least overtaken by LGV.
     
  40. ZeenozPlays

    ZeenozPlays Well-Known Member

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    I remember when they said “No, Autogen won’t affect the quality of a route...” hmph
     
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  41. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    I think SE HS looks a lot better than LGV and I'm really happy about that, the ballast and the missing fence seem the two biggest points but honestly I don't really care about that.

    It's fantastic seeing the progress between LGV and this. SE HS seems a lot more detailed, even in the higher speed section and it looks a lot more authentic and polished compared to LGV (but even that looks a lot better after the grass LOD update) :D
     
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  42. ZeenozPlays

    ZeenozPlays Well-Known Member

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    Sure, you and some other people may not care about it, and I don’t care much for how the Ballast looks, but after I seen that fence picture, it gave me a bad feeling about some of the inaccuracies on this route. Especially since it’s so close to the track.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2021
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  43. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    Still, I think those details are not really that important and I will probabily forget it in no time.

    I don't expect any route to be 100% accurate, but this time it actually feels right unlike LGV. Of course this is subjective, LGV is a lot closer to the region I live so it's easier to me to point out the "inaccuracies", but I still think they did a much better job capturing ""the feel"" for this route
     
  44. 59321747

    59321747 Well-Known Member

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    Did you ask Sam from DTG in the online Q&A session? Or other developers, DTG's comparison of the realism of the route scene, what restricts them to the real scene development of the route?
     
  45. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    It's quite odd that they have not modelled a fence that is next to the track. It's like when they didn't model the northbound curve at Piccadilly Circus on The Bakerloo Line when it's clearly obiovous that it's there. The TS2021 version has that. DTG do a great job with making trains but they seem to cut corners with scenery. The ts2021 version should not look more realistic than the tsw2 version especially if they have reference from ts2021 to make this route. They say that routes are modelled as close to real life as they possible but some previous routes show that is not the case and hopefully this route won't continue that trend
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2021
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  46. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    In the lirr, the driver does not open/close the doors. A conductor in the middle of the train does but dtg have not made an ai conductor to do that yet
     
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  47. Jalio

    Jalio Active Member

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    I guess with their auto generation tool they don't have to put much effort in.

    I usually keep myself out of sight around here but towards the end of 2020 the Q&A sessions sounded promising however the previews of SEHS seen with the differences seem pathetic which is urging me to speak up a bit more. I hope DTG read this as constructive criticism.
     
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  48. ZeenozPlays

    ZeenozPlays Well-Known Member

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    Sure seems like they're not putting that effort in after the Auto Gen tool is used. But we will see on that stream today. That's when the judgment call on the route is made.
     
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  49. LucasLCC

    LucasLCC Well-Known Member

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    Watching the stream at current. As expected, fence is still not there. DTG, putting the fictional in realistic.
     
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  50. Aran

    Aran Well-Known Member

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    Stream is over, and what a desaster that was
     
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