So far it looks amazing! I can't wait to drive this beautiful route in a beautiful train! So far, well done DTG!
It's about time! The lockdown takes longer and longer and that's how I think of Alice Merton and sing: I've got no routes! No Routes! I've got no roo-oo-oo-oo-oo-oots ... I need a route from Pancras to Faversham along, I need a roo-oo-oo-oo-oo-oot ...
I am laughing hard right now. Here is a post saying it looks beautiful and amazing, on the PC forums there is a post saying the route is rushed and scarily bad in some parts. Personally, not being from England, I found the route to look qutie pleasant. Scenery was well put, vegetation looked believable, stations looked wonderful and lots of vistas. Visually appealing routes are my favorite, and this one ticks way more boxes than LGV did, so I am a bit intreagued into maybe getting this at launch. Will have to look at the next streams first though.
I'm not from that area of the UK. To me it looked really good and great to play, although I can't comment on how true to life it is. It's a mix of high speed and more traditional, 70mph short good, plus the commuter services too. That's exactly what I like so I'll be picking this up on launch day. The audio did seem a tad quiet but, as mentioned, audio is still being worked on so I'm confident it'll be sorted for launch. The last preserved collection release along with audio on TGV and HMA restored my faith in audio balance from DTG. The only thing that's a little disappointing is that the route seems very quiet due to the timetable. Yes this is a frustration, but we've seen it before (i.e. HMA without console layers) and honestly I can still very much enjoy playing the route regardless. Clearly from other posts on the forum, everyone's expectations are different, and what people are willing to tolerate and are able to enjoy is very, very different. You can't please everyone, but I'm looking forward to it! Let's hope I'm not disappointed
Lol I come from PC forums and this is 100% true, I'm shocked with how different console players think vs pc players
I will say this: it's not going to be perfect for everybody. That's quite impossible to pull off. Whilst it is a shame it's not living up to the standards of some members, I'm confident at least some of those issues will be resolved. Having a simulator like TSW on a console is honestly a godsend. Consoles really do get the short end of the stick with simulators. We either get utter crap that 4 people want to play or things that call themselves simulators but are actually two people's project for a joke. Having what is there on SEHS right now is much better quality than what consoles usually receive as far as simulators go. I'm seeing where the PC discussions are coming from, of course. Not saying they're wrong to criticise something. But I'm 99% sure I'll be picking it up, anyway.
Factor in that PC players have not only dealt with DTG’s methods for a while, but have also had this route before, and were given the impression that TSW was the next leap forward, you can see why expectations are different, especially when the TSXX is far more accurate. On console the simple fact a train simulator is there is enough, it’s a case of buying the concept as opposed to a realistically represented product.
Here's the link to the Steam store page for the original London-Faversham High Speed route. They did state on the stream tonight that things have changed since that route was released in 2013 and things have been upgraded thanks to the progress of technology.
It's actually a brilliant thing that it's available on console. Consoles have definitely been neglected by sim creators for a long time. Hopefully other sim creators will follow suit and we'll see more simulation games in future. Console gaming is definitely growing and becoming more popular.
SE HS was my most played route on RW, and noticed that the TSW version is not as detailed, a similar case to LGV (a route I also owned on TS20xx), and this seems like will be the trend going forward. Only RSN looks better on TSW, but I believe this is due to the fact it's only half the lenght of its TS20xx counterpart. I still enjoyed more TSW simply because I like TSW better as a simulator, but that's subjective. I think it's quite easy to figure out why, TSW routes require more work, especially if you think about the fact they try to add a "new feature" to every new DLC, so something has to be sacrificed, either lenght (RSN vs Hagen-Siegen) or quality (LGV and SE HS). Of course people with past experience on TS (especially people that have all the 3rd party improvement packs) will have different expectations, like I had for LGV. But "I learned my lesson" and SE HS is just what I expected if the sounds for the 395 are the same as the TS ones. A 375 which is a slightly modified ECW 377 and a route coming just short of the TS version (like LGV). Still will not prevent me from enjoying this route a lot
I mean the thing is though that we got an engine upgrade to be able to deal with doing more, not sacrificing things. I know people think that picking up on fencing being missing is petty, but we aren’t talking about farmyard fence lines, we’re talking about actual substantial trackside detail here. The issue is either trying to save on memory because they still haven’t worked that out OR the teams have simply neglected to do certain things. It’s just bizarre that a team who are dedicated enough to add 3000 signals to one route, can miss such fundamental details on another. Then there’s the ludicrous development decisions such as the 375 sounds being the same sounds as the 377, which time and time again have been fed back to DTG as poor. The 395 sounds are nowhere near done and we’re less than 2 weeks from release. it’s just frustrating that something were being told is getting better, is actually getting worse, it’s even more frustrating when the team comes into the forums just add fuel to the fire with sarcastic replies to such issues, in a vein attempt to make you look petty for leaving feedback.
I completely understand what you are saying I felt the exact same way for LGV Méd, that's why I set my expectations much lower for this route. About the fence it would require its own 3d model and then placed on the route, and I guess DTG decided it wasn't worth the effort because only a fraction of the players cares about it. LGV at launch was much less detailed than SE HS, yet since day 1 it matched the pace of HMA as a best seller, so why bother to improve? Similarly to the 101 Cab car, a decent amount of effort should be put to make a minority of the community happy, which is not worth it from their perspective. I am not saying I'm happy, but just stating how it (probabily) is, at the end you get what you pay for, with a mediocre price you can't expect an outstanding product. DCS modules cost €50/70, serious Flight Sims add-ons can get to +€100... We basically get 2 trains, a route, a 24h timetable and 5 scenarios for the same price as 2 AP Enhancement packs, so of course the quality is lower. As I said, I would be happy to pay more and wait more to have better products, but what about everyone else? I think there are more people asking "why does it take them so long to make routes?" Than people actually complaining about the route ahahahah At least the new signalling system is actually really cool, and so are the road crossing, so it's not all that bad and at least we see some innovation going forward
It will look good in a promotional trailer! Let’s Judge if/when we see streams on basic consoles (now last gen here or YouTube) or read what other early adopters have to say regarding performance because performance makes or breaks a route for me more than anything else
My personal opinion. Overall I like the route, on the PC it looked awesome but yes lacked AI traffic. I dont understand why they didnt use a fuller timetable and Matts reason I feel was just an excuse. The sound issue of the 395 I am glad they are looking into it and getting it sorted and yes I do understand about the motor sounds being underneath the trailing coach.You need to do a better horn on the 395 as that sounds crap. The stations look great and the passenger displays are impressive seeing as there are different variations along the route I find that the variations have been kept to. I am not really worried about the sounds of the 375 strangely enough it doesn't bother me. There are 3 things that really bother me. Hoo Junction is the new "Acton Yard" for the SEHS (empty and devoid of life). No Sheerness Branch! The map! As done with previous other routes since Oakville came about. The track that is not used, even though you can see it in the game, is not on the map. Some of this track has AI traffic and some does not. do you know how stupid it looks seeing an AI train (im talking about you Marsaille, Oakville) coming out of no where on the map (where we know there isnt a portal). So basicly the map looks like a squiggly line. The map looses its character. For example take a look at the Main Spessart Bahn, Ruhr Sieg Nord maps you have tracks shown that you dont run on but you still see them in the map, its part of the route. For example take the baklerloo line. You have the WCML with depots and Yards running along the line but in the map they are not shown. (apart from one section just east of Willsden that's been "missed". This bit of track goes down to Acton Yard on the GWE route where all the AI freight go into and out of the map). I mean it really is a bug bear with me. Look at what they did with oakville there was a lot of track around the industrial zone which they remove from the map as you couldnt drive it. The Oakville map now looks smaller and it doesnt fully represent the whole route. When this is done it just makes the route look bland. Its just a squiggly line drawn and seeing AI trains just appearing out of nothing (and no portal) just makes it look even more ridiculous in my opinion. Please stop this trend of covering up or removing no driveable lines on the map. Regards Hentis
After watching the stream I’ve gotta agree it looks good, particularly East of Ebsfleet. Their stations and train models are spectacular as usual. The High Speed section especially after Stratford and up to the Dartfood Crossing let’s it down a bit as it’s so sparse and everywhere looks too dark. Maybe not helped by the ballast. The gameplay East of Ebslfeet is very similar to East Coastway and I find that to be a little tedious. But if you really like East Coastway I think you’ll enjoy this. I would be up for it if the scenario planner options are good as I’d love to increase the traffic whilst running some freight and my ICE Eurostar repaint.
I've been playing TS21 since 2012 or so, so I know what you are talking about very well. I share the opinion that some aspects of the route feel like a downgrade of the previous game, even though some new features are included (PIS, walking around, passenger mode, etc.) that weren't there in TS21. I just found it very interesting that console players would have opinions so different to those of PC players.
I've finally watched the replay of the live stream and this has just cemented my decision to buy on day one. It looks really good, Stratford station looks stunning and the trains themselves are beautiful. Not sure about the area around Dagenham, looks a bit too quiet but it's not a deal breaker. I like the split between high speed & regional too, I think this would be a route I play a lot of. It would be nice to see a bit more traffic on it, Hoo junction is a ghost town, DB have a depot there, would it be too much to ask for a few Class 66 locos and some wagons dotted around to bring it to life..? Great work again DTG, keep it up.
It's quite a sad situation when you have to lower your expectations. My expectations were that this would be of a similar quality to HMA. That doesn't seem to be the case.
I mean...this whole situation is utterly unbelievable to me, LGV had worse problems at launch (and now as well), and it didn't even bring any new feature, unlike this route. The problems are the same, inaccurate track side scenery and wrong ballast colours, yet when we complained about these problems about LGV we were just the nitpickers complainers hating on DTG, yet for similar (and I would argue smaller problems) there is this huge uprising of seeming everyone that has ever registered an account on this forum. It's clear to me that LGV was a representation of the fact that longer routes result in lower quality... but I guess more people care about SE HS than LGV here?
I didn't pick up LGV for similar reasons. I also didn't complain because the route simply didn't interest me so simply just voted with my wallet.
I personally didn't notice any of the problems that you are talking aboutin LGV, since I've never been there IRL. I've seen people say the same about my complaints on SEHS, because I actually have been on the route IRL. I think that people who have never been in the route IRL like them because they cannot notice the innacuracies, so they call other people nitpickers, but the few unlucky people to have been there IRL can spot big differences like ballast colour, fences, etc.
You don't need to have seen a route or section IRL to know it's incorrect. There's plenty of resources out there to determine what's correct and what isn't.
I'm sorry I didn't want to start a discussion about LGV, but the track side scenery inaccuracies impact both routes in a similar way, HS1 should feel like a more "restricted" and modern place but without the fencing it just looks like part of any other route, and LGV instead of feeling like hot and dry southern France, in some places it tends to look a bit more like Germany... Same for the ballast colour, but at least for SE HS only ~1/3 of the route or even less for the fencing is "affected" by these problems, yet for LGV about 4 or 5 people (I was one of them as well) got upset, vented a bit our frustration and then got to the conclusion it was not as important or game breaking as it seemed or simply didn't buy the route, yet for SE HS the situation seems a lot different.
Well, explain that to the people saying that brown ballast on SEHS is not a problem. I was just pointing out a trend that seems to be occuring with people's opinions on routes
Personally i think there over reacting, If it was a major function. Feature then i under stand. But missing one fence!!!!!! And a wrong shaped tunnel! Come on guys, its already 1000x better scenery wise than lgv. Don't be so obnoxiously pernickety.
I think the issue is a little more than "one missing fence", if you do not know the route IRL, or care about the quality, that is fine, however calling people obnoxious because they are giving feedback that DTG have asked for, and ultimately what the is forum is for, is not right. https://forums.dovetailgames.com/attachments/43178/ https://forums.dovetailgames.com/attachments/43179/ https://forums.dovetailgames.com/attachments/43180/
Good to see Stratford International, I live within touching distance, I just need a route out of Liverpool Street now to go through the Stratford Underground/Mainline station, we are spoilt with two major Stations in Stratford, the route looks very decent but performance is everything to me so I need to see/know more about console performance, I might actually hold off until I upgrade my PS4 and get the best experience straight off the bat
The modelling of the trains are good. The PIS and the stations as well but unfortunately there are some things that are wrong with the route. The ballast is wrong, there is no fencing that would sepreate hs1 and missing sound barriers that are literally right next to the tracks, The sounds of the 375 are incorrect as they basically used the 377 sounds. Heck the 377 sounds are incorrect as well so they have just doubled the inaccuracies. The 375 and 377 are two completely different trains as well so there is no reason why they should be getting the sound wrong. The 395 passenger lights are too bright. Stratford International is too dark compared to reality. Too much vegetation on some parts of the route that would be cleared away because if you had branches on the track, they would damage the shoes in the train. The TS2021 version of the route makes the route feel more realistic compared to the tsw2 version. It has the sound barriers, fencing, ballast, accurate trackside scenery and overall the environment itself feels more realistic than the tsw2 version. They did also have so much reference from the ts2021 version and feedback so the fact that they could get so much wrong with all that reference and the fact that dtg keep saying that they model routes as close to how it would be in reality when that hasn't been the case for the lgv and now this is quite baffling. Obviously they are not gonna get everything 100% accurate but if they could make the ts2021 version look close to even 100% accurate to reality, then why can't this version. The engine upgrade was done to improve the quality of the whole game, not some parts of the game and I can say that the overall quality of this route is not great and this is coming from a guy who has and plays this route in ts2021 but I suspect that those issues will be resolved most likely after release however recent history has shown that this company will listen to complaints and take feedback on inaccuracies but will not do anything about it or take months to fix it and not give customers a proper explanation as to why. I'm saying these things as a person who plays tsw2 on console
As they said it was a dev build surly it would be better to wait until we see the final product before you start moaning about what is wrong with it
Recent history and sam has even confirmed that not much will change from the dev build to the final release. Not much changes from dev build to the final release and that's been the case for many routes mate
DTG should want people to buy it though. If dtg can make hma a high quality route then why not sehs especially if they have all that refrence. People should expect high quality from all routes especially ones that they have refrence for, not inconsistency in terms of quality of routes
Pure speculation. No one other that DTG knows how well the route sells etc. Either way, DTG should be encouraging AS MANY players as possible to buy the route. The "don't like it don't buy it" route is not a decent financial model.
