Southeastern High Speed, by the opinion of the community, is believed to be not quite ready. Some of the topics discussed are: -Missing fences... crucial for blocking sound from the fast trains and wildlife from causing problems -Sounds are reused, synthetic, not in place, mis-ocluded or simply wrong -Lighting quality within the 395 being overly bright -Lack of services unexplained with 1 train per hour clearly revealed -Questionable brake performance of the Javelin -Almost no sound improvement made to the 375 -Empty yard even though the ECW 66 is applicable to the route with a change of livery I hold the opinion that SEHS has the potential to be a great route with further improvements and making sure that these issues are rectified. It's great that barriers work now, however, that isn't quite the selling point of a route to be enjoyed. It's great that we can now play with lights at relays, however that time could have been spent on actually placing the missing fences which is a crucial and safety related route feature. I also, resultantly, believe that the release of the route should be pushed backwards so that this route can actually be finished. These features cannot realistically be introduced to the route in (less than) 13 days. For those also beginning to get the impression that this is a snobby complaint, you might be correct. You might also just be reading the words of a tired and disappointed consumer who was really hoping for a route that at least improved upon the TS1 route build detail. SEH has failed to deliver a busy timetable (even HMA, SKA has a bigger timetable). It has failed to deliver accurate route detail. It has failed to deliver authentic sounds (and this probably won't change). Feel free to voice your opinion of course.
Yes, the route should be delayed. The fact that they want to release a route without having crucial pieces of scenery along this route and the wrong sounds is insane. Where is the track noise? What's going on with the 395? And why is the 375 using the same sounds as the 377 instead of improving upon it. I have a feeling that many people either aren't going to get the route at release, or people just aren't going to hold the route as high as others in their reviews if it does release in the current state it is in. Yes, some people may not be bothered by some of the things that have been mentioned here, but majority of the people are. And it's not just us on the forums, it's the subreddit, Twitter, YouTube. The criticism about this route is deserved, based on what we have seen. I was excited for this route. I was ready to get in and go crazy with the 375 or try some experiments with the 395 on GWR, but right now I've lost much of my interest in this route. I hope they fix the issues because I would love to get the route, but right now, I'm really debating that. We are not being overdramatic or anything about this route, we just want to see the blatant issues fixed, and we DON'T want to see the route released like this. I think they should delay the route, and take the time they need to fix/change the issues that were noted by the community. Come on DTG... we know you can do better. You're the same Dev that released HMA.
there was a stream on steam today where they showed the full route and confirmed the number of services and other bits and pieces of information
Which doesn’t work on consoles. There are a few people claiming to speak for the whole community again. That’s a dangerous thing to be doing. There are a few issues with Matt’s dev build of the route, that is clear, and hopefully some of the issues can be addressed before release, but a lot of the things that people are complaining about are not going to be changed because they are as designed. You can make a dramatic list of things that you think are wrong with any of the routes that have been released. People very often do. It must be obvious to everyone that the sounds on the 375 were going to be very close, if not identical, to the sounds on the 377. There is a problem with the sound in the 395 cab which is being addressed, but none of the other sounds on that train are going to be changed. The lighting inside the coaches on the 395 is ridiculously bright but we don’t know if that’s the finished lighting. So if it was released as is now, there would be sound missing in the cab and overly bright lights in the coaches on the 395. That’s the full list of issues on the trains that would be changed, and most likely will be by the time it is released. There would be fences missing on parts of the route, and a few issues with tunnel lighting occlusions. That is the sum total of things that would possibly be changed if the route was delayed. They might also be fixed, you never know. Plus there will be the usual bugs that creep through, like some services not being able to be finished etc, nothing we’ve actually seen in the preview stream. Everything else that’s been brought up is just subjective opinion of things like there are in all the other routes. Ballast colour, lack of services etc. People are upset that they aren’t seeing things that they wanted to see in the route, not by the route being bad quality or unfinished. None of those things would be changed by delaying the release, no matter how much criticism the devs get for them. DTG are not going to change the fundamentals of the DLC they are releasing, suddenly throwing 50 extra services in on a whim and opening up new parts of stations because the route could be so much more. There’s no evidence that this route needs to be delayed.
I think that these issues will be ironed out i too watched the stream on sehs last night and the things to note as Matt p rightly said 1. He was playing sehs as a dev build putting into context this is only to show sehs as stated it’s by no means a finished product 2. The sound engineering people are continuing to work on the sounds and the other issues and also bare in mind 4th feb still 2 weeks away so quite a while to fix things without need for another annoying pushback as happened with tsw2 release
Actually, it does. I was just operating a BR 423 from Munich Hackerbrucke to Mammendorf. Yes, it may be missing some layers of extra services at this time, but the base route still comes with more than SEHS will. Hell, East Coastway comes with more services. Speaking for the whole community? Who's doing that? Where? I don't see that. A Dramatic List? What? You mean a list of big issues such as sound quality, and actual pieces of the scenery next to the track being missing? That's crucial to have in the game. The 377's sound has been mentioned a few times by people on these forums. Overall, it may be fine and isn't a big issue, but when multiple people have been calling for the Traction Motor sound to be updated because it's missing a higher pitch, then the original sound shouldn't be used for a new train, that new train should come with the updated sound. Also... Track Noise is MIA. Like, where is it? I don't think the list is extremely long, but I do think that some of the major issues on the list need to be resolved. For DTG to fix those things in just 2 weeks, is something I don't see happening.
Well said it’s just a case of the experts spouting off who think they know it all probably same muppets who screwed up release of tsw2 by few extra weeks
Because it was peoples incessant throwing toys out the Pram mentality that caused it to be delayed in release
Another point to note that is wholly misrepresented and false is what you say about the time table as 1. As Matt P stated last night the services reflect reality 2. Look up on Wikipedia and you will clearly see the service to faversham is a hourly one in reality so what your saying about the timetable is totally false and without foundation
People rightly called for the Preserved Collection content to be made compatible with the Scenario Planner. The issue is, DTG decided to delay TSW 2, instead of just releasing the Scenario Planner content with the P.Coll in updates. The update seemed pointless, especially since all routes weren't available at launch and all of them released with sound issues.
No, the timetable is actually cut down. The services from Ebbsfleet (Lower Level) to St. Pancras aren't there and are only operated by AI Services, not player timetable services. Also, during Rush Hour, trains run more frequently (every 25/30 Mins)
Unfortunately if you believe that then you'll believe anything. The fact it took over three months to port the routes across meant that there was no way DTG could have learnt how to do it and then move the first few routes across. If DTG had really wanted to release on time they'd have kept their original plans and just done the compatibility in the future (exactly the same as what they're doing with the livery designer). TSW 2 simply was not ready on release, and DTG decided to delay it. The only people you can blame for that are DTG. Have you used the scenario planner with any preserved content at all? Or enjoyed any of the bug fixes to preserved content? If so, chances are that's down to the complaints made by the users on this forum...
Exactly. Without the community on these forums constantly giving feedback about the game, some things just wouldn't change. And if the game is kept in a horrible state, it could lead to bad reviews, which could lead to fewer people buying it and so and so... its s cycle, and the community helps a lot when it comes down to identifying issues and noting possible fixes.
Well that's wrong. There's always been a half hourly service between Faversham and St Pancras. And 3tph between London Victoria to Faversham ( starting from Rochester)
If that’s fully working in your eyes then that’s fine but for me it isn’t because of those layers, the very thing that people on PC can rave about why the route is so good. Especially when a big complaint about this route is the lack of services. I don’t think DTG are going to add extra services or open up platforms on stations just because some people were hoping there would be more content, that seems to be some people’s biggest issue. For a starter, the first line of this thread. Plus, a number of loud complainers on the forum don’t speak for the whole community. There will be plenty of people who don’t want the route delaying and don’t see some of the issues as a big deal. The sound on the 377 may not be fully accurate but as is pointed out time and time again no trains in TSW have fully accurate sound. The issue can’t be singled out for the route to be delayed because it’s not going to change. DTG reuse sounds across similar trains so if this is exactly like the 377 it is going to stay exactly like the 377 even if the route is delayed. There was track noise when Matt was showing the traction motor sound on the 395. The problem as he explained is that all the train sounds were turned off in the cab in his dev build because they aren’t quite right yet, and that includes the track sounds. It’s also another general issue with TSW though, the clatter is always too quiet. Not a reason to delay the release of this specific route. A list of real issues mixed with perceived issues. The missing fences is one of the actual issues that’s worth mentioning here, but a lot of the complaints are general issues with the whole of TSW and not confined to this route. Even the missing fence is just that, a missing fence, which might have a reason for being left out, we need to see a release build and ask why it’s not there if it is still missing. If a missing fence is enough to delay the route then it must be delayed but I don’t think it is. If the cab sound is fixed in the release build then we really are just looking at that as a bona fide issue with the route. An example of a route that should have been delayed would be the WCMLS on TS. Not this. I know people are upset that the route isn’t living up to their expectations but despite the sound missing in the cab, tunnel occlusions and the lighting in the carriages, I didn’t see anything stand out in the stream. I noticed the fence because it was pointed out before the stream from a screenshot.
I don't want the route delaying as I want more routes. And the 313. Hope the route doesn't move down in the roadmap on Tuesday.
On LGV route there are AI services at Marseille that you can drive that don’t stop at ax en Provence or Avignon but make you stop on the fast line at Avignon to end the service but isn’t listed on the service list
I don’t remember Matt saying the sounds in the 395 cab had been turned off. I do remember him saying on several occasions that the 395 cab is quieter than people might expect because there are no traction motors in the driving cars - only the coaches in between. He also stressed that the 395 cab was quite well insulated - not to the same extent as the TGV, but decent enough. On this basis, I don’t expect the 395 to sound any better in the cab than it did during the stream. If it does sound better, that’ll be a bonus for me. Watching this route on YouTube in TS2020 (or whatever version it is) the 395 does have sound in the cab, but maybe TS2020 was incorrect in that regard.
It is not yet finished and not yet released. So we must have some patience. Most work needs to be done with sound and testing still runs. You cannot judge if the route will have bugs based on what you see now. Personally, I like what I have seen and I am looking forward to more streams.
He explained what the sounds would be like, as you have described, but he started off by saying that the reason we couldn’t hear anything at all was that the sounds were off in that build. There would be running sounds if it was working as planned.
We are 8 working days from release. Given that the products have to be sent to Microsoft and Sony in advance, I'd imagine they have half this time to resolve the issues. I very much doubt anything major will change between the stream last night and the release build. If it does, I'll genuinely be impressed.
I suspect some of the issues raised here are being addressed (they repeatedly said the sound is WIP and something else as well, I can't remember) while other items are simply not even planned to be done and that's the finished product. Often we see release candidate builds on stream, but this wasn't even that far on. I might speculate the 395 sound may have failed the QA and has been sent back to have more development, when the first preview blog came out I was expecting 28/1 release, so it may already have been pushed back a week internally (just speculation). The thing to establish is whether there is still work progressing and whether it can be done in time. Once you can disentangle these two things you can consider whether it really is rushed and premature, or whether the makers simply have a different vision to yourself. I would like more frequent services, and variety (if realistic), I would like a hint of freight, even if non-drivable, just to put more life in the route. I do think that it ran reasonably well and looked very nice overall. The only thing I see here that looks interesting to ask about is the brakes on the Javelin, Matt found it hard not to overshoot quite badly at times and it did look a bit like the in the last 20mph the brakes are decidedly slow in taking the speed off. That is the sort of thing that they need to fix because it stops you playing it properly, unlike the colour of the ballast or a missing fence. Re: the fence, I suspect they have deliberately not included it as part of their "artistic licence" it gives a nicer view of the scenery and we know how badly fences just appear when they are next to the line (look at the overground part of Bakerloo), it would probably look a whole lot worse if the fence was right there and constantly popping in.
He likely said that when my stream was buffering like mad. But if that’s the case, the cab sound should be at least slightly better in the cab as we near release.
It’s not completely fine for me, but In that case, I fully understand why the consoles can’t use the extra services. Maybe the route shouldn’t be delayed, but I do think the issues with it SHOULD be resolved, and it should be done QUICKLY, to avoid a botched release. Also, I did not hear any track noise. Not even while Matt was showing the traction motors. (NOT INCLUDING JUNCTIONS)
