Rhein-ruhr Osten: Signal Problem

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by Franck69, Jan 23, 2021.

  1. Franck69

    Franck69 Member

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    Hello everyone, here I am again to represent a new doubt on the route in question.
    I was running a freight service, with PZB active, at the start I keep the limit of 40 km / h, after many meters I meet a green light signal, I pass it and the automatic braking is activated. I repeated the scenario and this time I pressed the recognition button and it didn't send me the train braking. (why is it necessary to recognize the signal if there is no speed variation? mystery ...!).
    I continue, at a certain point I find a yellow signal, I keep 40 km, after a few meters I slow down and I am going to stop, I expect a red, but magic, there is no signal. I go on and pluff the end of the simulation for overcoming the signal with an impeded route. (where the hell is the signal? see screen).
    I repeat the scenario once again. This time I stop at the ghost signal. I ask for and obtain authorization to continue at a restricted speed. At one point I encounter a green / yellow signal, I slow down to 40 km / h, but being a freight it is very heavy. Suddenly the train goes into braking because I had a red in front of it. But didn't there have to be a yellow first?
    Another thing that I have noticed a little in all the German lines. But am I wrong or are there no speed change signals? I often find a sign of slowing down, but then I don't encounter any sign that you tell me to increase the speed. I drive without the HUD and find it very frustrating to have to enable the HUD every now and then to make sure the speed has changed.
     

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  2. R3dS41ft

    R3dS41ft Active Member

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  3. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    You're running a freight (Class M or U). 40 is the restricted speed for passenger (Class O) trains. Try it again staying under 30.
     
  4. Alexandreo3

    Alexandreo3 Active Member

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    The red signal visible on the map is the white trapezoidal sign to the left of your track.
    These function as signal to allow wrong side running on tracks who dont have normal signals installed.
    The work as if there would be a normal signal which is always red.
    You need to contact the signaler to ask for a permission to pass.
    After receiving said permission you can pass this sign and proceed as usual.
    While passing with active PZB you need to hold down the PZB overwrite and not exceed 40 km/h
    until about the middle of your loco.
    Because theirs a permanently active 2000 Hz circuit.
    Dont know anymore thou if this is actually modeled in the game or not but it doesn`t hurt to do it.
    Edit: corrected the speed when pressing PZB override
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2021
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  5. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    40 km/h. That‘s why the button is called Befehl 40 (order 40) in German.
     
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  6. Alexandreo3

    Alexandreo3 Active Member

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    Thanks for the correction.
    I knew it was something easy but I simply forgot
     
  7. Franck69

    Franck69 Member

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    Thanks to everyone for the valuable suggestions.
    While what about the speed variations?
    Let me explain: I find a limit at 60 km / h, I adapt to this speed. But then the max speed changes, but I don't see any sign, as it happens or should happen, so I am forced to enable the HUD. It doesn't seem very simulation to me. Is there a sign I need to see that indicates normal line speed resumption?
     
  8. geloxo

    geloxo Well-Known Member

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    That could be caused by driving on switches areas, so you need to remember which was the line speed limit before entering the switches. There´s no speed increase sign unless you find a new board with a higher limit on it.

    Cheers
     
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  9. Franck69

    Franck69 Member

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    ok suppose that I remember the speed limit set before, if there is no sign, how can I tell if the speed changes? I noticed that sometimes it changes step by step. Limit type 60 km / h then changes to 80 and then 160 km / h without any warning sign. How is it exhausted?
    I come from a railway line, where nothing is left to chance, or rather to the driver. Of course, knowing the line, you need to be able to stop at the stations correctly, but I assure you that as regards the signs and speed limits, the driver must only stick to these if he does not do it, the train's humatism will take care of it, which first warns you acoustically that you are exceeding the limit and after a few seconds, if you do not intervene, the automatic braking starts. Here on TWS2 on the German routes, boh too many things seem to be left to the driver based on their knowledge of the route
     
  10. geloxo

    geloxo Well-Known Member

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    The problem you faced is the same a real driver has, as they don't have any HUD. And it's the same in any lines with non-continuous signalling systems (also for british AWS). LZB knows the track speed limits but PZB can't warn you about speed increases as it does not have any info about the track speed limits (only about signal aspects) and in Germany they don't use speed resume boards like the green ones you have at Peninsula Corridor. They just use regular boards and normally for new limits only.

    The steps you see are the switches or speed limits being entered or released by your train. You need to observe the boards or the light boards at the signals: yellow-green is a 40 km/h default limit. If different limit is applicable then the yellow-green will come with a yellow light board announcement. Use milepost boards or count catenary poles to estimate your train lenght after passing switches (they use a 50m spacing approx).

    Welcome to real driving simulation and good luck :D

    Cheers
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2021
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  11. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Or the quick and dirty approach I use: treat a green Hs without speed restiction as a "resume speed" Later than doing it properly by train length, but it works
     
  12. Franck69

    Franck69 Member

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    Yes, I see. I will have to learn somehow, it will not be easy, as there is no one who makes videos on youtube, which leads without anything. All good with HUD and speed limits always active.;);)
    Thanks for the support
     
  13. Franck69

    Franck69 Member

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    I don't quite understand what you mean :|
     
  14. doublefine7

    doublefine7 Well-Known Member

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    So track speed changes are to be seen in the EbuLa which is not built into the game. Normally you would see a sign on the tracks side when a speed limit change occurs. Also you have to know a route really well
     
  15. geloxo

    geloxo Well-Known Member

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    Take the easy approach as driving like in real life requires some mastery. Drivers also use the following tricks as not in all countries there´s extra driving aids or systems to warn you about the speed limits releasing.

    The important thing to know is your train lenght as that defines all the rest. Check the ESC menu for the value at the trip start. Now make some basic calculations, as much general possible to be easy to remember and use those rules whenever you can:

    1) The usual speed limit at a switch is 40 km/h, so you will run around 10m per second at that speed
    2) So a 100m train will need then 10s to pass the switch with its full lenght
    3) Or a 100m train will run a lenght equivalent to 2 catenary poles until fully passing the switch with the rear wagon

    Then apply some basic rules:

    a) If length is higher extend times/poles in 100m intervals (20s for a 200m train or 4 catenary poles, 30s for a 300m train or 6 poles, etc)
    b) If speed limit is higher divide times in 40km/h intervals, as the amount of catenary poles will not change (half the time for a 80km/h speed limit, a third for 120km/h, etc)

    For very long trains is better to look at the mileposts (specially in the case of american trains). For trains with always a fixed lenght (e.g: ICE3 with 400m) is also possible to remember scenery spot references at the main areas where you always have defined speed limits, such as the platforms exits at main stations (a main building, a yard lamp, a hut, a trackside asset, etc). This is also used by real drivers at very specific locations when speed conditions and lenghts never change.

    Remember you just need rough estimations and also try to stay on the safe side (dedicate a bit more time than required according to calculations to prevent overspeeding).

    Cheers
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2021
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  16. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    In other words, if after slowing down for a speed signal (as opposed to a permanent trackside sign), I then pass a Clear main signal (German: Hauptsignal, Hs), in other words a single green, (with no further speed limit indicated, of course), then I take that as an indication I am out of the block containing the switches or other reason for the reduction. This doesn't apply in switchyards, of course.
     
  17. doublefine7

    doublefine7 Well-Known Member

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    That depends on the Signal aspect. If the Signal shows Vr2 and Hp2 then you have to go 40 kmh or indicated speed within the next block until you left the switch area.
     
  18. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    That wouldn't be a single green (Hp1) then.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2021
  19. doublefine7

    doublefine7 Well-Known Member

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    Read the sentence before that: It depends on the signal aspect. Speed Indication at a Hp1 is Block speed, at Hp2 it is switch area speed.
     
  20. Franck69

    Franck69 Member

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    thank you all for the valuable advice, I will treasure it.
    It will be tough, but sooner or later I understand the exact mechanism.
     
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  21. Alexandreo3

    Alexandreo3 Active Member

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    You have to differentiate between entry, intermediate and exit signals of a station or block that guards a diverging route.
    Speed limits at entry and intermediate signals always count until the next main signal.
    Speed restrictions at exit signals count until you have passed the last diverging switch with your entire train.
    Once you cleared the last diverging switch you can resume line speed.
    The most restrictive speed limit is always the on that applies.
    Changes in the line speed are indicated with the white signs next to the track.
    Dtg got that right most of the time.
    I only know a few examples where there is no speed board or a wrong one.
     
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