South Eastern High Speed - A Rushed Made Route?

I wouldn't even describe myself as that casual, I am quite a purist when it comes to realism, when I make scenarios for TS1 I make sure I get the correct locomotive numbers for the depot running the services and even research train formations and use working timetables where possible yet I could not have told you the ballast was the wrong colour.

The sound in the 395 would bug me, that is something I would be bothered about but they stated more than once that they were still working on it.

If it was my local line I would notice things which were wrong but I still wouldn't notice if the ballast was the wrong colour.

Fair play to you if you want to go into that much detail.

 

That’s where your absolutely wrong as Matt p pointed out the reason the 395 is quiet is due to the design of the 395 by hitachi rail itself as there are no motors in the driving cabs only in passenger saloons below the floors therefore to do any different would make it fake and not a genuine 395 simulation

 

I did not mention the sound volume at all, but since you brought it up, no train cab is silent, the motors aren’t the only thing that factor into the noise of a cab, I do not expect to hear the motors whilst in the cab.

 

It isn't about defending DTG. I have too been critical but it is a question of balance and perspective and not talking as though you are some kind of harbinger for the rest of the "community".

It reminds me of vultures feeding on a rotten carcass!

 

Exactly this. Sound was confirmed to be a work in progress, so hopefully there's some hope yet. However, if we end up with a silent cab then this is not a replication of what Hitachi actually achieve in reality.

 

Again this point of having to say something good in order to say something bad has come up and I’m going to leave that at that.

I also hope that it is clear that when I say “we” I do indeed mean those that also express the opinions I am discussing in my replies, otherwise “we” could mean any amount of people!

Either way, as I’ve already said, If you’re fine with the way the route is then go for it, I genuinely hope you enjoy it, as I have with previous routes that aren’t upto scratch.

And I’ll end with this, there is some sort of irony involved in some of the remarks to people leaving negative feedback, we’re discussing a company, and that’s how it needs to stay.

 

If we end up with a totally silent cab I will be the first to be concentrating my ire at DTG as that would be ridiculous, as even in the most efficiently designed modern trains it wouldn't be totally silent, we are talking about heavy engineering.

However, I trust that it is being looked into as has been stated, as the sounds were not finished.

 

And if you're entitled to your opinion, others are entitled to theirs, no matter how "wrong" you may feel the other is being

Nobody is saying it's not quanitfiable, but some are saying they wouldn't know so wouldn't notice. You know so would notice. Its up to DTG to decide whether they want to appease the masses or make things minutiae level correct

Because someone said it's a dev build, so some will think that this means things will change. That's a communication and understanding issue. They may also not have read all 13 pages of comments

And all we can do is wait for the next preview stream to find out


The big problem with flared up posts like this is everyone's stamping their feet and making statements, but nothing changes until we see the next stream so unless there's anything new to say (which hasn't happened in a couple of pages) we'll end up going round and round "screaming into the vacuum"...

 

The state WCMLS was released in was never to be repeated again, pretty sure they have like a very small number of devs who work on TS1 routes, hence why DTG have a lot of third parties doing them.

 

I'll tend to agree with CK95,

The tough reality is that DTG has consistently shown they don't end up fixing stuff to the level of peoples expectations. And even if they fix the sound in the cab, that is by far not the only issue with this route.
And when CK95 says "we" it includes people like me too.

I don't think this is entirely true, we have gone a bit in circles as some people have attempted to discount the criticisms we have and we're trying to defend them. If we don't say anything, the staff will likely assume we are content, or at the very least not know what we're happy with and what to address by the next stream.
DTG could also resolve some of the comments here by stating stuff like what wont change as we have people going "it's still a dev build", but anyway history has shown that a dev build 1.5 weeks before release will be very close to the final product.

 

Are there any irl class 395 drivers on this forum?

 

My apologies may have got my wires crossed we will be able to here other sounds from the cab my under is the audio team currently working on the audio aspects

 

Well that’s my expectation, however mistakes with the 377 being repeated does leave me on the cautious side.

 

I get all of that, however it has been discussed and whilst I do certainly not expect people to read 600 messages, I think it would be polite to at least make sure you have all the information on people’s opinions and other information that has been made available regarding the topic, before attacking their opinions.

Again, the points I have made this morning have been to iterate that we are discussing a company and not individuals, and also to clarify that I am indeed not a ‘harbringer’ of the community.

This is getting a tad dramatic considering we’re discussing trains and their tracks.

 

Welcome to TS forums LOL

Nope, YOU are not the harbinger of doom (or the community) but others have done hit and runs and indeed been more vociferous in their opinions

 

Twas ever thus ! I have a vision of DTG handing out tranquilisers to their staff every time they showcase a new route!

I wasn't aiming the "harbinger" comment at you particularly but there are some on here who take the "we" too literally.

I suppose we have different expectations, I am not saying I don't want things to be correct but some of the comments on here do seem to portray the route as some kind of disaster, which maybe for some it is.

Anyway we are going round in circles. I look forward to the next airing of the route!

 

This thread has moved on alarmingly from the colour of the ballast!

 

As I said, just making sure my position and opinions are understood to a degree, personally I do not attack everything DTG make, as you’ll see from my history I usually stick to lurking and general information, however after seeing the stream and hearing out information, I wanted to be more proactive in my feedback, as I feel it has not been taken seriously (the 377/375) and whilst I do not agree or disagree with everything in this thread, I think that there are completely unnecessary remarks being made, and comments being left, weather or not they are directed at me.

In the end if there are those that are offended by track ballast, on either side of it being fine, not fine, or even not important, then there are larger issues at play for those people, I certainly would not discuss track ballast with anyone outside of my job, or on here, which I suspect is the same for a good few people, so I think it would be in everyone's interest to remain civil to those discussing it, as I think the amount of people who would engage in said conversation is already quite small.

My comments regarding behaviour are not targeted towards anyone specific, as I suspect those that have acted maliciously in their replies know they have done so.

It would be a shame for this thread to be locked on account of individual users not being dealt with, instead of just locking the entire thread and derailing the topic at hand.

We’re all here, we all share the same hobby, we all have different expectations and opinions, but we all love trains.

I’d like to also make it clear to any DTG staff reading this that I appreciate their work, regardless of my views on the completed product, I just wanted to make it clear that I do not always feel that our feedback is acted upon, weather that is done so on purpose or because of time constraint, or even the lack of possibility due to other circumstances at play.

 

What people are saying is that a lot of SEHS Is amazing, but there are only a few small missing things, which is what everyone is talking about. Were not defending their mistakes, we're talking about how well they have done kent side and with the 395

 

The Kent side looks amazing and personally the issues like ballast arent going to affect me that much because im likely to spend most my time on the kent side with the 375.

 

Whereas to me, I was looking forward to the HS1 part, but with the low quality on the London side, it'll just push me away from wanting to start services there. After all, the whole novelty of this route is that it goes into St.Pancras via HS1.
The difference here is that it's a very particular route, vs say ECW where if they had done that poorly I could have waited for another Southern region 3rd rail line, I would have gotten a similar experience.

 

Who knows, however it hasn't been the first time that the development time seems to have been a resource that has been a little bare, it wasn't too long ago I was in a conversation regarding content being rushed, considering the amount of content still on the roadmap, and Sam implying there was some sort of timescale to get that released before the next round of content is produced, in said conversation I initially backed DTG on account of the passion and skill that they can indeed display, however after seeing yet another dev build stream, then being told that it is actually unlikely for anything bar sound to change, it does leave me cautious of what is to come.

 

I think the devs simply need more time from the start. I wonder if DTG puts similar time pressures on 3rd parties, or if any time pressures are put in place by the 3rd party themselves.

 

Not sure on this point.

All routes are particular to themselves in some way or another, be it that the underground or DLR runs next to it, certain landmarks and so on. The only difference with HS1 is that it's faster than the normal mainlines, but you also then get much less traffic on the route (Stratford has 4 or 6 trains an hour, discounting the fly by Eurostars).
Going fast in a relatively straight line with TVM signalling is definitely "a thing" for some, but others would say that the GWML, ECML and WCML are more interesting simply because of the diversity and complexity of movements. The problem with that is DTG are only producing one or two trains per route and each of those routes would need four or five to simulate the experience.

 

Theres a fine balance as we’re told between what a dev wants to make and what they can realistically make. We know that. On the other hand. Its not simply a bonus £4.99 add on that we drive a couple of times and leave in the library. Example. Im enjoying the Marseille TGV DLC, but on reflection there are vast expanses of the route that are left bare bones. Am I being reasonable because Ive overlooked these things? Or should I expect more? These DLCs are 2/3 the price of a regular full game release. So when key aspects are seen to be missing, we maybe should expect it rectifying. Without question. (Within reason).

 

Each DLC is essentially a game in itself so that makes sense, TSW2 is an engine with no content so everything is in the DLC

 

The train is indeed the protagonist. Don't ignore the supporting role too much. High-quality movies can be successful in many ways. "detail"! Only in this way can the audience resonate with the movie and the actors!

 

So according to announcement there will be changes in sound, scenery and service. Maybe there will be some improvements that will find a balance between what is possible in the time left and what is acceptable to the people not quite happy with how it is right now.

 

Yep, great news, shows that feedback threads do get us somewhere.

Hopefully this resolves the pointless bickering that has taken place in leaving said feedback.

I'd like to thank everyone from both the viewpoint of finished and unfinished, or even in-between, (despite some individuals who have tried to derail this thread, and even taken to following other members into other threads and making remarks there) for participating in leading us to where we are now.

I look forward to seeing the finished product!

 

where is this is anouncemeent

 

In the announcements section of the TSW forum, just under the railfanTV schedule.

 

OK, quick question guys, is it me or is there less happening and also when roadmap release

 

Statement: https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/southeastern-high-speed.34197/

 

it is because they wanted to compact the information on the roadmap post, however it is all discussed in the streams still, and there will also be a post from DTG in the forums of more detailed changes.

 

To be honest, I was on the brink of buying the route on release I must admit, but if they manage to address at least some of the feedback, it will be a definite buy. When you say vote with your wallet by not buying, it has to go the other way around as well - that if they listen to the feedback and manage to improve on short notice, that has to be honored as well.

Now excuse me for this little high jack, but now I hope that some feedback from the db br 101 discussions have made it into consideration as well.

 

Next roadmap will release in a few hours (I think it's about 4 or 5pm it releases, with the stream at 8pm, which is whatever time that is in all the other places.

 

I think the entire point of this thread was that those who were excited for the route, and then disappointed by what was shown, wanted these changes so that they/we could enjoy this very much anticipated DLC.

 

Exciting news. Thanks very much to DTG Protagonist DTG Natster from the community team for ensuring our feedback was heard and to the development teams within DTG for taking this feedback on board. By working together like this, we can hopefully ensure SEHS is one of the most successful routes in TSW 2 - it certainly deserves to be

 

Thank you for listening to us. Making a mistake isn't half bad if you fix it afterwards.

 

A good response, nice to see the level of service will be adjusted as well. Release date is still the same on Steam.

 

Of course this is good news, but I would be careful in getting too excited already. Let's see what they can/will change before the release and go from there!

 

Great to hear some changes are being made!

 

We aired our concerns and you listened. Now let's see if you can restore our faith, there's nothing wrong with fixing and adjusting things.

 

Well hopefully we will all be happy or happier now. I had pre-ordered it anyway, will be interested to see what the next stream brings.

 

Yep let’s just hope given the issues are only minor that this does not come at the expense of the launch date being pushed back from next Thursday

 

This is excellent news and I am now once again cautiously optimistic for this route. Thank you to everyone who has contributed their thoughts on here and also of course to DTG Protagonist and DTG Natster for relaying to the team.

I would be all for a delay to release if that is what the team need to get it up to scratch. To be honest, if they just add the fencing to the HS1 section and make the Ashford services driveable I would be more than happy.

 

I doubt they would delay it although it isn't impossible. Personally a week wouldn't worry me too much although I am looking forward to driving it.

 

I think a weeks delay would do well but dtg may not delay it

 

This is definitely some good news, and brings a welcomed sigh of relief. Its uncertain just how much improvement we'll see, but it's improvement nonetheless.
I'm hoping they can pull this off. There will be a lot of eyes on the next preview streams.

 

If DTG has to delay the route to get any changes they’re implementing done in time, I’m comfortable with that. I’d rather it be right first time, but if the changes come after release, an update patch won’t be unwelcome.