Layering Is No Longer Fun

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by Amtrak131, Jan 27, 2021.

  1. Amtrak131

    Amtrak131 Active Member

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    I remember when TSW 2020 came out and its central theme was the german layering system. I liked when everytime i brought a german with its stock, a new set of layering gets added to that route and the previously released. What happened to that? Why are we not adopting that to UK routes or even just continuing that path? It made me feel like all my purchases was worth it because i got more out of it than just playing one route. DTG seems to have abandon that principle with releasing random routes and trains that only work for themselves or only one thing. That makes running that route boring very quickly.

    I hope they consider restarting the layering theme with each route so it feels i'm getting more bang for my buck. The HSSE is a great starting point with adding the Class 465, but don't make 465 only for that one route, add it into the layering system of the next UK routes along with the 475 or even the 477.
     
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  2. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately due to the amount of TOC’s in the UK, layering is much more difficult to make work, but now that Southeastern and Southern are in game, any future routes based out of London Bridge or Victoria will hopefully benefit from those DLC’s.

    I don’t think that DTG have abandoned layering, it’s just more difficult to do with the UK & US, unlike in Germany where the primary TOC is DB.
     
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  3. LimitedEdiition

    LimitedEdiition Well-Known Member

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    Even in Germany, layering is lacking. It seems like any train that's not a standalone loco DLC is a mere afterthought. ICE trains run along MSB and nothing has been substituted. The 425 in MSB's time period also featured along with it, and no substitution. Even the upcoming loco product releases don't seem to feature any layering in other routes.
     
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  4. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    As far as rolling stock is concerned, it shouldn't be hard to layer in for North American routes as long as they are in the same era. The CN Oakville Subdivision is a good example of this, as the route will used both Sand Patch Grade and Peninsula Corridor freight cars in its yard as well as the default CN stock. But for whatever reason, Dovetail never applied this to Sand Patch Grade itself when it released with TSW2....
     
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  5. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    I think the issue with these is they are dependant on preserved content, and the core team don't really deal with those, that really comes down to Adam getting around to resolving those, although those examples are definitely oversights, but they have mentioned swapping German stock around for more realistic services.

    Hopefully future content gets some nice layer treatment, even if they have said the 101 will not, however that's a consist issue rather than a reluctance.

    DTG are probably aware of the quality and value that layers add to their DLC, just look at the reviews for HMA on PC, I don't think they're going to drop such a prominent feature, but I do agree it has lacked in some area's where it could of been implemented better.

    There is also the consideration of licensing, some companies don't like their brand being included in content with other brands of TOC's, as discussed in the end of year Q&A.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2021
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  6. LimitedEdiition

    LimitedEdiition Well-Known Member

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    I think it's rather due to time constraints/lack of desire than any other reason. The Talent 2 should be seen in HMA and both of those aren't preserved content route or rolling stock, and are all TSW2 products. Even within HMA, a lot of the other S Bahn services that aren't the two included ones, are entirely missing. The yard in HMA is rather lacking as well, since there should be far more services that utilize those areas than what we current have. We get the usual scapegoat of blaming the dispatcher, but I distinctly remember one of the reasons cited for even having Train Sim World 2 was the improvements in the dispatcher.
     
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  7. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I agree on the HMA front, and I certainly agree on some dubious reasoning for TSW 2 being needed, with HMA they did mention they layered RE & Freight services, I think they just made a mistake on the choices behind the trains used, I do have doubts about how many service paths the game can deal with though.

    My original point was more along the lines of layering being enabled and the restrictions regarding them, I fully agree that the effort in the work beyond that point could use an increase, if it isn't a performance issue or engine restriction.
     
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  8. Amtrak131

    Amtrak131 Active Member

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    I think we need to keep this discussion alive to make sure DTG is hearing us and we are going to hold them accountable. Make multi route layering a very important topic as it was a thing back in TSW 2020.

    I don't think a company gets a right to decide what route their trains will be placed on as long as it presents the company in the best possible light DTG can do. HMA is a great example to use. Also they have proven in the past to sell new loco dlc that adds to the layering system of an old route(s), but they stopped it for some reason.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2021
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  9. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    I doubt it's to do with licensing and more likely to do with the dispatcher not being optimised / working as expected, and that they don't want to "penalise" people who buy one DLC but not another. It's hard to write scenarios where trains from different DLC interact without ensuring that people have both DLC and that does penalise those who don't have both
     
  10. davidh0501

    davidh0501 Well-Known Member

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    Agree. Look at the fun Matt had in trying to extend the Bakerloo timetable.
    Expect the despatcher needs “optimisation” as well.
     
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  11. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

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    I would like the scenario planner to be able to run in a layer on top of the existing traffic. Maybe not always easy, but it would be awesome. You could add you ICE3 to MSB then, without the need to recreate all traffic manually, which also is not doable because of the way the scenario planner is set up.
     
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  12. davidh0501

    davidh0501 Well-Known Member

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    What I want from the scenario planner is the simple ability to substitute my consist for one in a timetable.
    So I can run it with the existing ai traffic.
     
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  13. Mr JMB

    Mr JMB Well-Known Member

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    It seems that new routes can use layers from older routes sometimes, but not the other way around. I cannot think of any new routes where the locos that came with the route can be used in layers or substitutes on routes that were already released. If they included backwards compatability, so you can have newer locos on older routes that would up the layering quite a bit on several routes.
     
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  14. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    WSR uses some substitution locos from newer routes, if I remember correctly.
     
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  15. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    WSR allows locos from later routes and loco DLC but only as substitution locos in the existing base services layer. The Class 31 and Class 20 from TVL substitute for the Class 47 and the two Class 08’s from NTP and TVL sub in for the Class 09.

    Possibly before I started playing TSW (August 2019) there might have been some German routes that added layers to earlier routes but certainly no routes have added any layers to previously released routes since the release of TSW2020.
     
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  16. mclitke

    mclitke Well-Known Member

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    You don't? Licensing is painful. You usually have to get everything you do and show with a license approved by the license holder. You would not want to breach these kind of contracts, that would cut massive holes in your finances, not even considering the legal business itself.
    You are not even allowed to use the tgv or ice for any official artwork contest right now...
     
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  17. markhazeldine

    markhazeldine Well-Known Member

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    I don't really understand layers, but all I know is, there was more life and activity in TS classic than TSW2 and I'm a bit bored of the excuses for why they can't fix it and make it better than a 10 year old game. It seems like DTG have picked a design for TSW2 that is simply flawed and doesn't live up to their original intention. Perhaps it's time to give up and change it to something simpler and more flexible, even if it's less "real"?
     
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  18. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Probably because there's 100 times more DLC and people make their own scenarios so you're comparing apples with dumper trucks.
    In DTG DLC on TSx there is an equivalent level of "life" for the most part
     
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  19. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    While DTG has definitely made mistakes in their design process and even further with their development, I think this issue simply comes down to content in a lot of cases, and obviously TSW cannot compete in that regard yet.
     
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  20. JustWentSouth

    JustWentSouth Well-Known Member

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    I would love this. It would be so easy to create interesting runs where you are dealing with traffic and adverse signals. All you really need is a way to insert your train as an extra into the timetable.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2021
  21. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I did do a service in Scenario Designer with the ice. Maybe dtg will add ICE services to msb
     
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