Why Ts Rocks!

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by inversnecky, Jan 30, 2021.

  1. inversnecky

    inversnecky Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2020
    Messages:
    2,252
    Likes Received:
    841
    Searching for info about signals for the other thread, I came across this model signal and my jaw dropped.

    C927D4D2-A336-41EB-9766-6692830459C5.jpeg

    £65?! Then you see a diesel for £160!

    I don’t know if modelling has got more expensive over the decades since I indulged, but it makes you think that for the price of just this one signal or a pricier diesel, you can experience the delights of driving many hundreds of miles of routes on likely a good dozen different trains, and indeed get much more of a feel for the operation of the real thing on Train Simulator.

    (I realise niche, low volume production necessitates higher pricing, and it’s hardly a profitable industry, but still the prices are eye opening!)
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2021
    • Like Like x 3
  2. Reef

    Reef Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2018
    Messages:
    2,718
    Likes Received:
    1,772
    Also you're forgetting the initial outlay of a suitable computer to play the game in the first place, but I agree with your sentiment.
    I told a friend at work how much (roughly) I'd spent on TS and he thought I was completely loopy.
    That is until I asked him how much he's spent on his hobby (avid Carp fisherman) he went very quiet and muttered "fair point".
    I eventually got out of him that he's in the region of a small 2nd hand family saloon.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. ntypeman

    ntypeman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2018
    Messages:
    1,052
    Likes Received:
    269
    That's cheap... Add sound & you're nearer £250 - £300...!!!

    Eric
     
  4. martschuffing

    martschuffing Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2020
    Messages:
    920
    Likes Received:
    668
    Eye watering more like, I shudder to think what the cost would be to me if I'd spent what I'd spent on TS stuff for real world models!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2016
    Messages:
    8,421
    Likes Received:
    2,675
    I would not want to be one of those people who lost all their Train Sim stuff due to a computer failure.

    With a Model Railway you don't need a Computer
    Part of mine under constrution
    IMG 1141.JPG
    Peter
     
    • Like Like x 2
  6. inversnecky

    inversnecky Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2020
    Messages:
    2,252
    Likes Received:
    841
    Looks good, Peter.

    Of course, much of the enjoyment of modelling is the process of construction itself.

    Things have come a long way since I last dabbled (what’s this newfangled ’DCC’?!), and maybe I’ll get a chance again one day...
     
  7. martschuffing

    martschuffing Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2020
    Messages:
    920
    Likes Received:
    668
    or a fire.... ;)
     
  8. Reef

    Reef Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2018
    Messages:
    2,718
    Likes Received:
    1,772
    Well I was one of those people Peter as you may have seen me post about, and no it wasn't a nice experience at all, however now just over a week later I'm slowly but surely getting back up and running, I had an expensive outlay due to the type of failure but I also wanted to upgrade a little and not just replace like for like, fortunately I was in the financial position to be able to afford to do so.
    Now the data itself, which is I assume what you're referring to losing, once my PC was up and running again obviously the first port of call was Steam so all my paid Steam products were swiftly re-acquired, then on over to AP to do the same, JT, and finally ATS MJW UKTS and a few others (including the various utility programs like RWE, TS-Tools and the plethora of other utilities I use) and I'm up and running again.
    Only thing I'll never get back is my own edits (of which were many even in this short time TS-ing) an external storage solution would have negated that problem though.

    I wonder if you had a (god forbid) house fire would your model railway be so easily replaced though, yes insurance would pay out no doubt but all those man hours building it?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. ntypeman

    ntypeman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2018
    Messages:
    1,052
    Likes Received:
    269
    Unfortunately some things in life money just can't replace... Time is one of those such things...

    Eric
     
  10. JJTimothy

    JJTimothy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2018
    Messages:
    1,528
    Likes Received:
    975
    DCC is like the Hornby Zero-1 but much cleverer and much more expensive.
     
  11. ntypeman

    ntypeman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2018
    Messages:
    1,052
    Likes Received:
    269
    Dunno... I bet you Zero1 was just as expensive back in the day...

    Eric
     
  12. JJTimothy

    JJTimothy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2018
    Messages:
    1,528
    Likes Received:
    975
    IIRC mine was about £35 including a chip and extra chips were a tenner or so around 1979/80.
     
  13. peterchambers

    peterchambers Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2018
    Messages:
    190
    Likes Received:
    149
    Volunteering on a Heritage railway is the most secure way of preserving your hobby, layout etc. I keep a duplicate copy of all my TS and TSW2 on an external HD. TS still beats TSW2 for variety, immersion and QUIRK.
     
  14. junior hornet

    junior hornet Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2018
    Messages:
    1,761
    Likes Received:
    2,651
    You wont lose anything you bought from Steam or via code from DTG. These will be installed automatically when you re-install TS on the new computer. Also any purchases from JT and AP can be re-downloaded. I know this because I recently had to re-install Windows and lost my previous installation of TS and other stuff. The only thing you would lose was any scenarios you made yourself but, of course, as a sensible person, you would have made backups of these ;)
     
  15. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2018
    Messages:
    5,565
    Likes Received:
    11,446
    Well that strikes a chord with me as I have experience of that. My neighbour and my father had built a model railway in his spare room.

    He came home from work one evening, put some chips in a fryer, fell asleep and woke up to his house in flames. His house was gutted and although the fire didn't reach the room the railway was in, it reached the landing outside, the heat from the fire melted most of the stock and the much of the railway. Very few items were saved unscathed.

    I am thinking about building a small GWR/WR branch line, yes I know it is bit cliched, but there is plenty of second hand GWR stock which although still not cheap, you can pick up a Pannier tank for £30 or so. I don't have the space, inclination or money for anything extravagant!

    I still don't think it would ever replace train simming though. Some of the small branch lines like the Brixham branch or the Watlington branch can be treated like model railways in free roam anyway but with the complete line than the last scale quarter of a mile.
     
  16. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2018
    Messages:
    4,180
    Likes Received:
    2,607
    Well... if you have back up, that will not happen.
     
  17. inversnecky

    inversnecky Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2020
    Messages:
    2,252
    Likes Received:
    841
    For future reference, how do you back up a scenario you made yourself - is there a save option in TS, or is it a matter of copying folders in Windows?
     
  18. westcastlerail

    westcastlerail Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2018
    Messages:
    235
    Likes Received:
    167
    What would be really cool (which I understand is possible) is to link your model railway to Train Simulator!

    I was thinking the other day, most of my rolling stock in TS mirrors what I have for my model railway, so all I would need to do is build the route (easier said than done given im struggling even with basic scenario building!)

    I have given my model railway a wide birth for a couple of years as I found I was getting priced out the market for new models, track, buildings etc.

    My layout is still up, and I do run it every so often, but I must admit TS is certainly my go for my train fix!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. inversnecky

    inversnecky Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2020
    Messages:
    2,252
    Likes Received:
    841
    It’s always a shame space puts such a limit on our ambitions like that. I used to think of N gauge, but although you get more ‘model miles’ due to the reduced scale, the trains are too tiny for me.

    I read somewhere else the other day someone saying he considered modelling Waterloo station in OO, but he’d need an area bigger than a tennis court!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  20. martschuffing

    martschuffing Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2020
    Messages:
    920
    Likes Received:
    668
    "I would not want to be one of those people who lost all their Train Sim stuff due to a computer failure."

    That's why I have an 5Tb external drive and a back up programme to save all my games to.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  21. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2018
    Messages:
    4,180
    Likes Received:
    2,607
    If you back up your entire Railworks folder, then you can just put everything back where it was no matter what happens.

    If you want to save individual copies of your own scenarios, then package them using Utilities.exe and save them out in a secure location. However, if you back up Railworks... you have effectively backed up everything, including your own scenarios.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2021
    • Like Like x 1
  22. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2018
    Messages:
    5,565
    Likes Received:
    11,446
    I can imagine, I don't think you would ever finish it, although it is always said a model railway is never finished!

    I have some N gauge, I used to have N gauge layouts when I was younger but I think it is fiddly and although the detail is a lot better than it was it still looks a little like a string of sausages rather than a model train to me. It is even more expensive too.

    Most of the N gauge stock I have was my fathers, I have thought about swapping it for OO gauge but I have a sentimental attachment to it.
     
  23. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2016
    Messages:
    8,421
    Likes Received:
    2,675
    Two sort of replies to this thread
    [1] you won't lose anything on TS if you have it backed up to an external drive
    [2] But if you have a house fire you could lose your model railway.

    A chap I know lost his stuff thru a house fire
    Not a Model Railway but his gaming stuff - yes he did have it backed up on an external drive
    But that was damaged with his computer

    Peter
     
  24. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2018
    Messages:
    4,180
    Likes Received:
    2,607
    Then he wasn't adequately back up.

    There are ways to mitigate against this depending on your exact circumstances. In my case, my garage is a separate building from the house about 5 metres away from it, so the main back up server mirrors to another one in the garage (and both have redundancy). That may not be suitable for everyone... even if it's because not everyone has a garage, but there are many ways to prevent a fire losing your data. A cloud back up service could be used, but the size of the average Railworks folder makes this expensive (and the initial back up time consuming) but if you can afford it, it would work.

    There are even things you can do that cost you nothing. If you already have an external drive as back up, just keep it with you.

    Have two drives both kept in sync, and again, one in a separate location. It's not like you have to constantly back up... it's a home computer, not a data centre. once or twice a week would be enough to protect you.

    If you already back to an external drive, then back THAT up to a large capacity flash drive and keep THAT with you. Sandisk do a USB3.1 1TB flash drive... it may be £100 but how valuable is your data to you? You can even get external enclosures for regular SATA SSDs that are light, small and powered over USB3. Most people's machines will have USB3.0 at least these days. That's something that would also be small enough to slip into a pocket while you are away, or at least grab on your way out of the burning house.

    If you are serious about back up, none of this is a problem. The problem is, most people aren't serious about back up... until they needed it and didn't have it... then they quickly get serious about it if they lost something valuable to them.

    Just as a reminder. Having a back up on an external drive is NOT really a back up if you leave it plugged into your computer, or sat next to it. Fire will destroy both.. someone breaking in will probably steal both. It's not effective back up until it's in a different location. It's not just data corruption or drive failure you need back to protect you from.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2021
  25. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2016
    Messages:
    8,421
    Likes Received:
    2,675
    Question.
    How many people take their Back Up External Drive with them when they go out of their house?
    I presume Pookeyhead does but what about the rest of you?

    And the bit about grabbing it when you are running out of a burning house - my family is more important than my possessions
     
    • Like Like x 1
  26. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2018
    Messages:
    5,565
    Likes Received:
    11,446
    I certainly don't, I would end up losing it. I suppose a cloud back-up is the way to go. My only thought would be my cat if my house was on fire.
     
  27. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2018
    Messages:
    4,180
    Likes Received:
    2,607
    I don't use an external drive for back up. I use networked RAID servers. As I was saying... there are other ways. You can get really large capacity flash drives these days that you could mirror your back up drive to if you were concerned about back up. I know most, if not ALL on here would not do this. That's true. They will be the ones who would lose everything if the house burned down or they got robbed.

    I know me evangelising about back up annoys you for some reason, but I make no apology for it. If only one person takes my advice and avoids total data loss, I'll be justified in making these reminders. You don't have to pay any attention to me if; You can carry on not being totally backed up if you want. It's your data, not mine. Mine's secure.
     
  28. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2018
    Messages:
    4,180
    Likes Received:
    2,607
    You say that as if it's inevitable.
    Large capacity flash drive, or portable SSD. Small, light, relatively cheap, and easy to take with you if you plan to leave the house unattended for any length of time. Even if you leave it in the glove box of your car... the chances of your car being robbed AND your house burning down/being robbed simultaneously are pretty slim.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2021
  29. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2016
    Messages:
    8,421
    Likes Received:
    2,675
    The bit about making a backup makes sense but few of us will have networked RAID servers.

    I do back up about once a month but I don't take the drive out of the house as I would be worried about losing it.
     
  30. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2018
    Messages:
    4,180
    Likes Received:
    2,607
    As is mine. You'd still ensure you at least had some underpants on though before you ran out into the street I reckon. Picking up a small object on your way out if what it contains is important is something you could do without even slowing you down. Remember, I'm not just advocating back up for Train Sim :)

    I sometimes wonder if you actually read my posts Peter. I made it quite clear that is not something that would suit everyone, or even something most people would know how to implement even they knew what it was. The only reason I go to those lengths is because my data earns me money... or did at the time. Now I've had that level of protection I'd never go back though, even though that is no longer the case. My whole life is now stored as data. My life's music collection, family photos, movies and videos, important household documents, e-mail and correspondence, personal correspondence.. everything. In reality, I see your point. Faced with a fiery death, or rescuing your data, then sure, the choice is clear, but seriously... there are a LOT of things to be done to protect our data, and keeping a copy of it on a small, easily picked up device on your way out of the house would go a long way to mitigating against theft, flood or fire. If you can't be arsed, then fine... just say so, but don't try and criticise others who want to protect their stuff. After all, most people pay for house insurance year in, year out without making a claim. A back up solution is a one off payment for the life of the equipment - which if it is £100 for a 1TB flash drive that would last at least 10 years... that's excellent value for money. You can take it with you everywhere. If you lose it, you lose it, but the chances of your house burning down AND losing it at the same time are again, slim.

    If you are honest with yourself though Peter... you just like arguing with me :)
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2021
  31. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2016
    Messages:
    8,421
    Likes Received:
    2,675
    So I'm running out of a burning house and I should ignore the 4 cats and the wife to pick up a flash drive
    nope.
     
  32. Cat

    Cat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2018
    Messages:
    1,181
    Likes Received:
    711
    Depends on which is your favourite cat.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  33. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2018
    Messages:
    5,565
    Likes Received:
    11,446
    I am good at losing things lol! Yes I could leave it in my car when I am out, I have never really considered taking it with me incase of fire, they are easy enough to carry around I guess. I actually have two as I backed up the back up as I have a lot of photos which I would be very sad to lose, I had an external hard drive stop working once and couldn't retrieve anything from it.

    If either of my two cars got stolen I would know that there was a desperate car thief around!
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2021
  34. Expat16

    Expat16 New Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2020
    Messages:
    24
    Likes Received:
    4
    This discussion is crazy!
    A house catching fire and destroying a model railway with years of work would be far more devastating then my pc dying.

    Everything you have purchased for train simulator would be saved on the relevant website.
    I did a fresh install of train simulator and it wasn’t that big deal.
    Everything from Steam was loaded up instantly. I have everything from Armstrong Powerhouse so just went to the download page. Same goes for ATS, UKtrain sim, Major Wales, Superlabs etc,just redownload.
    In fact I think it’s a good idea to carry out a fresh install every so often.
    If you use the ATS installer then It’s even easier. Just download everything to one folder and press install
     
    • Like Like x 1
  35. Reef

    Reef Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2018
    Messages:
    2,718
    Likes Received:
    1,772
    I think so too
    Indeed, but it's the non purchased stuff that's the problem, Edited routes, skins made from scratch, edited scenarios that replaced stock you don't own, and that's just for starters.
    I had almost everything, thankfully AP stepped up and I could re-acquire some additional content that had been removed.
    Curious, how does the ATS installer handle the .bat files that are generated in the assets folder and needed to be clicked on? If you don't click on and then delete each one after each install process it is overwritten and thus not installed by the next pack you install, that's when you end up with invisible stock.
     
  36. Expat16

    Expat16 New Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2020
    Messages:
    24
    Likes Received:
    4
    I’m not that computer literate, learnt a lot playing and modifying TS but if your custom files meant that much to you can’t you save them to a cloud somewhere?
     
  37. martschuffing

    martschuffing Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2020
    Messages:
    920
    Likes Received:
    668
    Erm nope I certainly leave my external drive plugged in never thought about it like that! But as has been pointed out if there was a fire I'd be out with the missus and drives would be the last thing on my mind!
     
  38. Expat16

    Expat16 New Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2020
    Messages:
    24
    Likes Received:
    4
    Exactly, it’s a computer game , who cares...
     
  39. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2016
    Messages:
    8,421
    Likes Received:
    2,675
    As was pointed out if you have a lot of stuff you wish to backup, not just games but things like Family pictures and important info, it would cost a bit of money to upload that lot to the cloud.
     
  40. TimeSlicedDanny

    TimeSlicedDanny Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2019
    Messages:
    208
    Likes Received:
    188
    I'm surprised more people don't make use of cloud storage. You get some free with OneDrive and a lot more if you have the Office365 subscription. I use BT Cloud which is a small extra cost on my BT broadband subscription. All my devices can synch with it and my data is secure in a datacentre far away from the fire, riot and mice devouring my house.
     
  41. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2016
    Messages:
    8,421
    Likes Received:
    2,675
    I presume you don't have much to back up
     
  42. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2018
    Messages:
    10,832
    Likes Received:
    10,482
    Office 365 gives you 1Tb of storage per person, so up to 6Tb on a single account. Other storage providers can give you more but most people don't need 1Tb let alone that
     
  43. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2018
    Messages:
    4,180
    Likes Received:
    2,607
    That depends how much stuff you have, and how important it is to you.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  44. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2018
    Messages:
    4,180
    Likes Received:
    2,607
    13TB and counting here LOL
     
  45. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2018
    Messages:
    10,832
    Likes Received:
    10,482
    I've got a similar amount in photos, documents and train sim rubbish, but many people have their photos backed up on iCloud or google storage so don't need it also on their computer
     
  46. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2018
    Messages:
    4,180
    Likes Received:
    2,607
    That would do for most people, yes. There are a lot of ways you can securely back up... either yourself, or in the cloud. The biggest problem with backing up terrabytes of stuff to the cloud is the initial upload times for most people though.
     
  47. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2016
    Messages:
    8,421
    Likes Received:
    2,675
    Exactly
     
  48. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2018
    Messages:
    10,832
    Likes Received:
    10,482
    Yep, but that's the same for any "initial" anything. The initial outlay, time or effort is then paid back by not having to do that again unless you decide to move to a different system.
    This is why people don't like updating, they want everything "to be just there" and moving means waiting (or remembering the password)
    Either way, the storage is available and the systems too, so I don't think my answer is too far off for many people (who aren't nutters like you and I when it comes to insane amounts of files)
     
  49. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2018
    Messages:
    4,180
    Likes Received:
    2,607
    I prefer my stuff right where I can see it :) I'm not a target for hackers... Google are. Besides... both servers are running Ironwolf Pro enterprise grade drives, and both have redundancy... I'm not really gaining anything by using the cloud so far as security goes... in fact, using the cloud adds another level of vulnerability if you ask me. For most though... sure... if you prepared to go through the hassle of a massively long upload initially, cloud storage is yet another way to mitigate against stuff like flood, fire and theft etc.

    There's not really any excuse to not be backed up these days.
     
  50. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2018
    Messages:
    10,832
    Likes Received:
    10,482
    For many the bigger risk is encryption locking
    I support a few businesses who just love to click things in emails and a few have had their servers encrypto locked. Local servers (including those with RAID redundant drives) were affected so the best way to go was remote backups. Long winded process (for me not them) but it works
    Of course it also works against acts of god in the middle of the night :)
     

Share This Page