PlayStation Does Quality Control Need Quality Testing?

At last someone has the same opinion as me. Well the route must be better when released how did they miss those bugs. I am not expecting purfect but needs to be better. The only honest review I have is Alan Thompson says it how it is. I love the game but I feel as you said the quality control needs to be better especially spending all the time doing the route. I hope they do better in future.i am going to wait next time on any new release and see what Alan Thompson has to say at least i get an honest opinion.

 

Why is one persons review, when it is their opinion not fact, considered more honest than anyone else's? You shouldn't de-legitimise other peoples views just because they don't chime with yours! Are you saying that all the other reviews are lies and those people leaving them are hiding their true feelings about the route?

 

I now accept I will never buy a route on release day, I watch YouTube vids over time and follow community feed back here, I only need to be burned a few times and then learn a lesson, others should do the same because if they dive in head first with out doing the research they can only blame themselves for felling annoyed afterwards, those lovely trailers look fantastic but hardly representative of the real product in terms of looks or playability, trailers don’t show bugs and always run smoother, it’s amazing how many fall hook line and sinker by a flashy trailer

 

Well I have bought the new route and don't "feel burned". I think we can all make our own mind up and don't require a lecture!

 

Same for Alan Thomson on his “first look”

 

You don’t, excellent, others will, end of lecture

 

Not everyone wears rose tinted glasses

 

I'll watch alan Thompson's thoughts on this route

 

Samo, I’ve asked you before and I’ll ask you again. Define “unfinished” in a totally objective fashion.

 

Amazing. Samo has discovered there’s a difference between an advertising video and a played experience. Who’d a thunk it possible.

 

Indeed. Some, like you, wear failure-tinted glasses.

Your overt and consistent bias against offering DTG even the slightest praise for achieving anything at all positive is so clear that I can only speculate that you avoid recognising a game’s positive merit because you would turn to stone, burst into flames, or melt into a puddle if forced to do so.

 

I would never base a decision to purchase any DLC based on reviews, I am not certain there are that many which are totally objective, on both sides of the spectrum, I barely base a decision to purchase anything on reviews. A lot of reviewers have an unconscious bias! I had a new boiler fitted based on some positive reviews and regretted it!

There is enough information out there to make an informed choice without needing others to help you make it.

 

Indeed. I don’t read reviews either. I buy every last TSW DLC pack on release day, even the ones I probably won’t drive, because on my income I’m able to do it, and because it supports the DTG team, and thus supports the rest of the community.

I’m not saying this to earn a cookie, but instead to show there’s a simple way to support the improvement of the product for everyone, and that’s to BUY THE PRODUCT and thus inject cash into DTG to keep the proverbial lights on. It’s really not that hard an equation.

I’m not a “sheep”, Samo, I’m a patron, — but I doubt that you can even grasp the difference.

 

At the moment I’ve given up playing this dlc because of all the bugs I can’t justify spending half an hour doing well then for no reason I loose all control in the tunnel and there’s no way of starting again and that’s just one thing. £25 down the drain.

 

It's probably a bug that'll get fixed soon

 

Yawn Zzzzz patron? more money than sense,

 

I always knew, that’s why I never buy day one! and why I advise others not to be sucked in by these meaningless trailers

 

I do love calm, reasoned, analytical arguments.

 

Me too, I can find it thankfully with some of the community, fan boys unfortunately not but then I’m not talking to fan boys, they just have a habit of butting in and can’t see there are actually two sides to every conversation

 

Too true. At least you don't try to de-legitimise a persons argument you don't agree with, by using pejorative terms!

 

Or addressing the substance of criticisms about his biased approach to “critiquing” the game.

 

If all you have to say in response is that, Samo, then I can happily declare you the new naked emperor of game critique.

 

You're both as bad as each other, and all this will result in is the thread being locked when DTG wake up...

To bring this back on topic...

The QA process (and by this I refer to bugs being identified AND fixed - as there's a major difference between just testing and actually resolving) does appear to have some major flaws.

I've always been able to understand that some bugs occur sporadically, or you get some slight scenery differences to reality, and that's acceptable as it's never going to be 100%. However some of the major bugs do question what the QA process is like and why these bugs make it to release. This is things like:

- Scenarios not working. The Tricky Tunnel scenario on SEHS doesn't work (I believe for everyone, but obviously can't state that as a fact). The 363 has a broken scenario (still!). I can understand a few service mode services not being tested, as 267 services is a lot to test, but the 5 scenarios not working is inexcusable.
- Tutorials not working. Like SPG coal loading tutorial not working on console due to the immersion controls. There's still a number of preserved content tutorials that don't work. These should have been fixed urgently, as you'll get new players getting stuck then immediately refunding them.
- SKA crashes on console - This appears to be across the board on the base consoles if you have the MSB layers, yet wasn't identified by DTG and released like that. HMA they were proactive and locked the layers (although not ideal, at least the content is playable), but SKA has been left broken.
- Sounds - Some of the sound setups appear to be done by someone who has never been on a train, let alone in a cab. The 395 is a key example for this. Whilst it's hard to get decent recordings at the moment, it appears that the issue is more in the mixing than anything else.

If DTG can get on top of the main major issues, then those that pick on just tiny things don't really have a leg to stand on. Because DTG mess up simple things, it becomes an inquisition to see exactly what else they've messed up on.

 

Ok back to basics, if play testers can’t find the absolute most basic bugs, I’m not talking about looking for bugs, I’m talking about missing sounds and lights OBVIOUS bugs what are they actually being paid for?

digging for bugs will always be more challenging but to release a game without footsteps, Wiper sounds of missing lights although obviously not deal breakers show a level of incompetence on the part of the testers, that would apply to any game not just a DT game

I will check on how the route improves over time and maybe, just maybe pick it up in a sale at a later date, because I have lost faith in DTG work ethics of releasing unfinished routes and quality control it will cost them money and I’m sure I’m not alone now

Please feel free to post the usual fan boy replies of DTG don’t need your money, that’s the usual rose tinted glasses response so fill your boots and fire away

 

I thought you'd been on this forum longer than that.
Every mistake DTG makes gets picked on ad nauseum until someone gets banned, and then they create new accounts to start again
This community is voracious when it comes to "what they want" and unless they get that they won't stop... so whilst I would hope to be able to agree with you on that point, I just can't
DTG don't do themselves any favours in many ways, but to say the community will stop picking?

 

I would be interesting for people to make two lists - one list of actual bugs (i.e. things that make the game unplayable and/or unenjoyable) and one list of what they they would like to be in place but isn’t. I bet everyone’s lists will be different.

For example wiper sounds and footsteps would be on my second list as they are nice to have but don’t break the game IMHO. However, to others who want the full immersive experience, they are a deal breaker.

This would help DTG to assess what is most important to players and what fixes they should prioritise.

 

I do agree with this and this is the reason why some get frustrated and question the QA and the company. The fact that the Koln Aachen crashes with layers were allowed to be released and were missed by DTG begs the question of was it tested properly? The fact that preserved collection train sounds were "released as is" with the sounds of the M7 cutting out wonders if it was tested properly? The fact that the Tricky Tunnel Scenario doesn't work will leave people wondering was this thing tested? Windscreen wipers on the 395 not working will leave some wondering was this thing tested? I do agree with the General Questing of the OP (although the bickering between the OP and a few people here is not doing anyone any favors. Agree and disagree in a constructive manner) Is this a pointless thread, no. I believe things need to be questioned on how a product is tested prior to release. When these simple bugs are missed and I'm not referring to a major bug that may take a while to fix or something but something that is clear to the human eye and it keeps happening over and over again it's gonna get some people annoyed. I'm not paying $30 to be a bug tester. This will leave some to refund these products which is not good business. I would like to know how long does the QA team check to see if there are bugs, why are bugs that are clear as day missed and released anyways like layers on ska for last gen causing crashes near Koln HBF, how long does it take the devs to fix them and are the higher ups giving more time to the QA and devs to find and fix these issues. DTG are not really transparent with these issues and they should be more transparent with their customers because at the end of the day, these products cost money and it's not fair for some customers to be getting these clear as day bugs not fixed prior to release.

 

I don't know what is supposed to be wrong with it but it worked for me. I have completed them all and all I have is a base PS4

 

I’ve also completed all the scenarios on SEHS, no issues so far.

 

And Samo wonders why he rubs people the wrong way... or why Sam and Natalie likely ignore everything he posts.

Catch more flies with honey than vinegar, son.

 

It doesn't work for me and several people in the forums which is quite odd. I play on Xbox Series X

 

You can complete the scenario with the safety systems off.

If you turn the safety systems on, you'll get an emergency brake application when attempting to pass the signal.

I can only assume internal testing took place with the safety systems off.

 

Oh dear dear dear!!! nice reply from Sam in another post yesterday

post “Question for Matt or Sam”

If every player had a 1-10 scale in order to rate our releases there would be some whose grade is higher across the board and others who rate things lower. This tends to come as a result of the level to which expectations are matched. Those with higher expectations, even knowing the standard we routinely hit are almost perpetually disappointed. Those with lower levels of expectation are generally more satisfied.

Friction between users of this forum come when someone from one end of the scale sees what we've done in an entirely different light to someone from the other end. If a member of the community finds themselves in regular argument with others, it's likely because they're closer to one end of the scale than the other. The thing is both ends of the scale are right, both are wrong.

"Good enough" from your perspective, from our perspective, from 50 other players' perspective will be different in each case, and the result will be subjective depending on who you talk to.

We know where our creations are strongest and where we're lacking. Of all the criticism received it is lighting and sound that receive the greatest volume of negative feedback. Making this more challenging is that we can also be inconsistent in those areas, sometimes delivering above the norm, sometimes below it. We're aware of these two areas of concern and are working to address them, but they'll take time.

A lot of the nuanced feedback we receive is about the detail in a release we make. The level to which we match or exceed the minds-eye view or hopes of individual players dictating the level of nuance that is commented upon. Some are happy to run through abstractions of reality, some are not.

Would we like every player to be 100% delighted with everything we do? Of course we would. The fact is that such a goal is impossible. Were we to spend a year making a new route the detail would naturally be higher, but we'd still not reach that 100% mark - and we wouldn't be around to make anything else afterwards.

We are leaning on the preservation crew to handle known and emerging non-critical problems post release. No sense in pretending otherwise and arguably we're doing it a little too much at present. This is why that team exists, to further polish our releases after they've launched. If anything this team means that there is no such thing as "finished" as we can go back and integrate new systems that are developed over time while addressing other areas of feedback we receive after launch. Even with this facility it's still unlikely we'll be able to please all the people all the time.

In the Q&A at the end of the year we spoke about routes that for no obvious reason, didn't work as well as we wanted them to. Not in a technical sense but in the sense of them being everything we hoped when we started out. There's a hint of alchemy in game development where sometimes all the pieces slot together and create something greater than the whole, and sometimes pieces that should work together flawlessly fall short. This is something we find too. Sometimes the end realisation isn't up to the hope we had when starting out. For something so rooted in technology there's a decidedly organic result after months of work. Even then we may find that routes we were happiest with fail to meet the expectations of some players, while some we would have liked to turn out better are well received.

We aspire to create great routes and fantastic trains to run on them. Ultimately it is up to individual players to decide whether we're close to that mark or not, and what's true for one person won't necessarily be true for another.

 

When people say that dtg don't respond to samo1 when that's not the case lol. In all seriousness, I do like how honest sam was

 

I have had a few good responses from Sam, all detailed and respectful over the months, there’s nothing wrong with criticism if it’s respectful

 

Exactly

 

The problem with your entire premise here is that you assume these three issues are simple.

 

Since when has that been a consumers problem? DTG are just as responsible for quality as any other company, and just because it's not simple does not give them an excuse to release products which are broken (and by this I refer to tutorials and scenarios which are impossible to complete. If this was the occasional thing then fair enough, but broken scenarios are becoming rather frequent.)

 

Which scenario’s are impossible to complete? I’ve completed them all with safety systems on.

 

This thread is for more than just SEHS. However, Tricky Tunnels is impossible with the safety systems on.

 

Then do what I did, and turn them off to pass that signal, then turn them back on. Then report the issue, watch the roadmap for a fix, and stop moaning about the odd inevitable minor glitch that can be worked around.

 

Obviously I have zero objection to the reporting of glitches through the established channels, but if that isn’t working for you, then badgering DTG about multiple issues at every chance you get is a counterproductive waste of everyone’s time — time that would be better spent working, as a player community, to take the initiative to put together comprehensive, collaborative Excel spreadsheet lists of reproducible issues in a predefined DTG-team-friendly format, with properly detailed descriptions of each issue, its precise in-game location, platform specs where observed etc. etc. so that DTG could save huge amounts of time locating them.

But instead people moan pointlessly, on boring thread after boring thread, instead of collaboratively HELPING. It’s just this ongoing delusion that chanting endlessly that “DTG must be held accountable” and “nothing significant gets fixed” is somehow constructive, when really it isn’t.

 

I’ve completed it with them on, where does it fail for you? Remember not to go over 130 when leaving Ebbsfleet until in the tunnel if this is where it happens...

 

Actually, I tried that. I put together a spreadsheet and uploaded it onto the forums however there was no interest of response from DTG...

My post on this thread was hardly moaning, however I guess you can continue to moan about the moaning if you so wish...

 

Interesting as you're the first person I've heard to not suffer from the issue. There's a number of threads on the forum about it. As soon as the red signal goes green, if you try and accelerate you get a brake demand.

 

I don't really see moaning on this thread but I guess you can continue moaning about the moaning that you believe their is. I've given detailed versions of issues on their Kayako system about some bugs in this game many times including the Tricky Tunnels bug. I don't do those things on the forums though because DTG prefer Kayako and I think that system is better personally. The whole purpose of this thread was to gauge players opinion if Quality Control needs tested due to the fact that simple bugs get released anyways. Now I'm aware that it isn't the job of QA to fix things but questioning how the QA process and bug fixes works is not a bad thing. "Badgering" dtg about issues is not a bad thing because they have always said they are open for feedback and they do go on the forums but simply don't respond much which is understandable. It's not wasting nobody's time. I'm not sure if it's wasting your time though.

 

This issue could be player specific hence why some have issues and others don't

 

Double negative means it IS wasting somebody's time, mainly the people who have to trawl through all the moaning to get to anything useful on some of the posts on this forum

 

Others have said they don't get the issue if the warning systems aren't on. I've seen this myself on some of the NTP services where you can't release the brakes properly on one of the locos if AWS is activated (ie pressed CTRL + numpad ENTER), fine otherwise so I have to learn not to try to turn AWS on with that scenario else you can't leave one of the stations