I’ve picked up SEHS and I’m liking it so far. I am doubting that anyone at Dovetail is using their ears though. In the cab of the 395 there are two types of sound. 1. The controls, alarms, bleeps - all too loud. 2. The sounds the train makes - all too quiet. This is the case even with the cab doors open. There are sounds there, there are running sounds, I can just about make them out. Let us hear them. I can’t even bump up the volume to hear these sounds because the cab controls would wake everyone in my street. So come on, use your ears. If you want to use my ears, give us a shout. I might not be able to tell you if your traction motor sounds are the right ones but I can certainly advise on balancing levels. The controls should not drown out everything to the point where you have to otherwise drive in near silence. The controls sounds are louder than the train sounds are from exterior views. Think of the excitement hearing the train sounds gives the player. Think of how little excitement hearing the clunk of a power lever gives the player. I like a nice clunk but not if it sounds like it’s inside my head. Think of why the 155 was so popular in TSW2020. That thing made a racket that was too loud but people loved it, because it felt like driving a train. The 395 feels like I’m repeatedly turning massive switches that aren’t attached to anything. It’s uninspiring and very disappointing.
I do agree, alot is unfinished and although they said some of it will be patched it makes me wonder why they realeased this at its current low quality.
The sound isn't an in-cab issue only, from the outside the 395 makes very little sound either, on PS4 at least. Two javelins passing each other should give some sense of speed and at least a little whooosh, but there is virtually nothing. Even positioning the camera next to the traction motors does barely anything to increase the volume. An easy way to demonstrate the point is to blast the horn when outside the train at 225kph, the level difference between the horn and the general running sounds of the train is at the point of absurdity. I'd say the levels are wrong for sure, I mean if nothing else, it was a wasted effort on DTG's part implementing traction motor sounds that change between AC and DC, because you can't hear them, so for all concerned it'd be good to have the sound levels looked into, preferably with a final check using normal domestic equipment (flat screen TV with speakers in the back, positioned against a wall or in the corner of a room).
Also there are wiper sounds but seems to be only external, use an external cam and get close to it. Not sure if those are the sounds we're meant to hear inside the cab.
The wiper sounds in cab are a bug that is known and will be fixed . Just out of curiosity guys do you use headphones / earphones or TV / soundbar for your set ups?
I was finding it difficult to hear the traction motors myself. The sounds were there but very low. The level of the horn actually works here but at the expense of everything else. I’ve said here in the past that to make a train horn sound about the right volume they need to mix everything else a bit lower, so there is an appreciable difference when the horn is sounded, but on this the train sounds are lower than the ambience sounds too. Everything needs to work together and having the crowd sound of the stations make you strain to here the train is weird. My point about the cab controls being so loud is what leads me to the conclusion that they are missing the point on sound altogether. They’ve chosen some nice clunks and put them in standing proud. They did the same thing with Bakerloo, but this time they’ve outdone themselves. That is not what makes a good simulator. Even if the cab is quiet in real life, make the train sounds a bit louder in the game because, as we don’t get to feel the train moving, the sound makes the illusion. The player needs to hear it to feel it. The cab controls can be half the volume they are now and be about right. The alarms can also be a bit quieter. In past trains they have had some alarms really quiet and you can’t hear them, here they will make you jump out of your skin. Somewhere in between would be ideal, loud enough for the player to hear but not so loud that it forces you to turn down your volume, making the issue of the quiet running sounds worse. As much as things need to be realistic, they also need to be created bearing in mind the context of people playing this at home. That’s a balancing act for sure but important. This is neither realistic nor a good player experience in my opinion. I don’t know what they are monitoring the sound on when mixing. It needs to work well on the wide range of devices that people will be playing the game on. That ranges from the standard TV speakers, hifi equipment, headphones, cheap computer speakers. If you get the levels of everything right, it will sound great on all of them. I really hope they find a way to make the sound implementation easier, so they can concentrate more on getting the mix right. At the moment it doesn’t appear that the right amount of time is being spent on it.
Money money money, cash grab, every new route is unfinished, so this doesn’t surprise me but once again it’s a shame and unprofessional
Wow, I'm sad to read this . I will definitely not buy this route because for me the sounds are VERY important and thanks to them I get very immersed in the railway experience. In fact, I always use headphones with TSW. It's a pity because we come from two DLCs that had taken more care of this. BR 423 and TGV sound really good, with well done mixes. DTG should never forget that videogames are an AUDIOvisual experience, and especially if we are talking about something that aspires to be a SIM. Edit: I forgot about the BR 363, which also has an exceptional sound.
I'm fairly sure it's a mistake rather than by design, it's very clear DTG are capable of doing exceptional sound mixes that truly immerse you in the game, some of the diesel locos sound phenomenal, and indeed the TGV too. It's clear effort has been made, it's just somewhere along the line the mix went wrong.
Sadly this is the biggest flaw with TSW, the sounds are just not up too scratch. Nothing to so with this new route, its all the routes and the entire game in general.. the sound is very sub-par. Playing TSW on PS4 Pro which I do its very hard to hear any of the actual sounds of the game, the PS4 Pro fan is too noisy. I use earphones sometimes but still the sound for me is dull and not high quality at all. I think they focus 99.9% on how everything looks, and 0.1% on sound quality.
Having heard the wiper sounds, they sound horrible and squeaky so it’s probably a blessing that we can’t hear them in the cab Funny thing is that if you are in ‘Explore on foot’ mode and enter a 395 cab then you can hear the wipers inside the cab. I don’t know if this helps DTG with their fault finding?
Dedicated home cinema amp/speaker setup. the game appears to be output as 7.1 what do you use Hentis? esshh. I agree. The sound is horrible. NPC’s will be doing crazy walks again purely to escape this sound!!
There are plenty of free games you can go play instead if you have nothing constructive to add. BTW: Define “finished”, in an objective fashion.
I'm normally not someone that gets bothered by sounds, but the 395 has an appalling mix of sounds. I wholeheartedly agree that all the alarms, klaxons, buttons are stupidly loud. The traction motors are probably right, given that they're not in the same carriage, however the lack of track sounds makes it seem that you're not driving a train. Opening the door makes no real difference, so unlike the 155 you can't get any noise this way...
I use either Turtle Beach Headphones and Mic (if I am streaming) (not decent enough sound through there to be fair, I mainly use them for the mic as I said whilst I stream. Now if I am streaming use a pair of Betron HD1000 On Ear Headphones, Bass Driven Sound With Powerful Acoustics and Enhanced Clarity, Includes 3.5mm Gold Plated Connector and Comfortable (only £19.99 from Amazon but the sound is bloody awesome) I use these whilst I stream along with a VeGue professional 192KHZ/24Bit Studio Cardioid Condenser Mic Kit with boom. or I use my Sony Dolby Pro 7.0 wireless Headset But the Betron Headphones are used most of the time. Hentis
I do wonder if there's a difference between those that use headphones (and therefore can pick up quiet sounds in the background) and those who play the sounds through a TV or speaker. In my case the sounds of the 395 are drowned out by the computer running, however I can't turn the volume up as the beeps are too loud.
They do sound horrible, wipers should only sound like that if, both the windscreen was dry and dirty and the wiper blade is in a severely bad condition
There is a notable difference in using Headphones vs TV or Speakers. If like me you play First person shooters (not fortnight, I cant stand it. Mainly COD, you can hear the footsteps of people running towards you if you are hiding round a corner in the game). You can hear a lot more than with speakers or TV's. Most TV's these days have lovely big looking screens but really LOVE tinnie Audio. I do have two sound bars fitted to the TV's where both my PS4's are set up but Headphones are so much better. Regards Hentis
One thing people may want to note. It was stated by Sam recently that Matt has confirmed that "repetitive running sounds" will get quieter quickly after starting off so as to avoid the sound becoming annoying or even irritating to those who want to hear the operating noises of the train. In other words running sounds, motor sound etc are damped down in favour of the beeps and whistles. Maybe in the case of SEHS they took that process a bit too far and ended up crushing the experience rather than making it less repetitive. I sense this should be something that goes on a slider in the options menu rather than an absolute. Some people want to hear the running and engine noises, others don't So give us the option (or give us control of the timer with an infinite or 0 control for those who always want to hear) Don't agree with this though. Recently upgraded the sound on my TV to include a sound bar with bass tube and the difference made me wonder why I hadn't done it much sooner! The kit you play sounds from really does make a difference so it's almost impossible to "tune for all of them"
yes i agree audio is bad if you can hear them. hahaha one other thing id like to point out is the usual thing with DTG is gradient issues again, gravity.
Watching a 12 car 395 depart St Pancras, the sound completely disappeared once the front 6 cars passed. The rear 6 cars made barely, if any, sound at all.
I will say, I use the external front cameras when i drive the 395 and after about 40mph the traction motor sounds disappear too. I understand the motors are in coach 3 of each 6 car set so realistically, you wouldn't hear too much motor noise from the cab. I'd imagine IRL, the cabs are probably built so that noise is kept to a minimum as I can't imagine driving a train at 143mph, that you'd much noise anyway as it it'd be a distraction. That said, being a game I wouldn't mind the traction motor noises being louder
What is absolutely both amazing and unforgivable is that sound (or mixing as DTG prefer to call it) has been an issue time after time after time again and old routes still have the same problems, to release another route with the same problems beggars belief, a completely new sound team is needed not just jobs for the boys/girls even though they are obviously not up to doing a proper job
In the cab you won't hear much motor sounds, but you certainly hear the track sounds, wind noise and the sound of another train passing you. I passed another 395 on the high speed section, and with a closing speed of over 250 mph, it was absolutely silent.
I posted in detail my thoughts in sound in another thread, so I won't repeat myself here. However, one thing I've noticed that hasn't been mentioned that I can see, is if you're on foot and a 395 pulls out of a station, it sounds much louder and has a very different traction motor sound to the Javelin you drive yourself. I tested this by switching to the outside camera whilst waiting to leave Faversham. A 395 departed in the other direction and sounded very loud with a different traction motor sound. When I used the outside camera on the 395 I was driving and pulled away, the sound was totally different and much quieter.
I can't say I've seen any acknowledgement about the sounds being subpar, so perhaps they've given up listening. At least I know we've not been drowned out by the sounds of the 395...
To be honest, I don't normally see DTG acknowledging issues when they're raised on the forum. However, they do get mentioned in streams and also materialise in fixes, so they definitely do take note of what's on the forum even if they don't post in each one to say so.
They have acknowledged it. It’s been talked about in the live streams and Sam’s being saying they aware that they need to do better with sound generally as well as with this route. Although this thread wasn’t referred to specifically, I got the impression it had been read from what he was saying, but it’s definitely not the only thread where the sound has been picked up on. Not by a long way.
I honestly don’t get how they screwed up the 395 sounds so much. The 395 in TS classic sounds almost perfect and has perfect run sounds. What happened? Or is it the engine to blame? Also for the love of all holy please tone down the in cab alarm and handle sounds! Or at least add an option to do so in the settings it’s crazy how that even got past “testing”
The silence of the player train in all the streams I've watched is so unrealistic, almost surreal. I have pretty high-end audio and I can't even hear the brakes when the train stops at stations, let alone any running or track sounds. AI trains pass silently. The amazing thing to me is that the streamers didn't seem to notice it or care. I've never heard a completely silent train anywhere I've traveled, no matter what kind of traction it uses. This issue is what is keeping me from purchasing what is otherwise quite an attractive and well made route.
The sound of the 395 when in motion outside is too quiet so I have to turn up my tv. When I have the safety systems on, the alarms are way too loud. Not to mention that there is little track noise when going through a junction on the 395. Clearly not enough time was done for sound on the 395
I like the route but i agree the sounds for the 395 are not in balance. The throttle/alarms and door sounds are too loud and apart from the wind i dont hear much else (using headphones). Everytime i drive the TGV/ICE/BR425/BR423 im so impressed by the sounds in cab its so realistic, with the class395 im disappointed. I hope they will look into this and make it better.
I sincerely hope the sounds for Class 395s are fixed soon. The route is unplayable to me until it is. The fantastic sounds in the TGV had me hopeful for this train, but sadly this wasn't the case.
395 sounds aren’t bad. They are not setup right. Especially on the ai when accelerating and decelerating. Cab sounds need toning down A LOT. Driving with the cab door open actually shows you the sounds aren’t actually that bad. A 395 cab is a naturally quiet well insulated place with all doors shut.
I haven't bought the DLC yet (because I don't want to spend money on a faulty DLC), but I won't buy this until most of the bugs have been fixed. It is true that the engine sound of the Class 395 was slightly made well, but all the security systems and the throttle are just way too loud! (I've seen this on a lot of other youtubers). And is that actually correct that if you come from Gravesend and then doing the power system changes in Ebbsfleet that the contact shoe for DC is down even though the pantograph for 25000 V is up?
