My Thoughts About The New Dtg Class 60.

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by BritishRail60062, Feb 15, 2021.

  1. BritishRail60062

    BritishRail60062 Active Member

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    I am definitely in favour of an enhancement pack and it will be interesting to see other liveries and mods that will be available for this Class 60 in the future. Unless there are setvars already to disable/hide the BR logos and the depot plaques for the post privatisation liveries that will be covered no doubt. Its a promising pack and I have given it a 6 out of 10 which is fair and justified.

    Anyway folks. I have posted my video which was a stonking 14GB and there is good points about the add-on as well as the bad and I am certain that AP will iron out the bugs and perhaps DTG will sort out the position of the drivers side cab window as it does open the wrong way. Its a nice base pack for reskins and mods and its got a very nice cab overall that is better and higher quality than the JT one has to be honest. Take a look at my video of this add-on if you wanted to folks.
     
  2. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    My aforementioned patch has been approved on the TSC website and can be downloaded here: https://mods.trainsimcommunity.com/mods/c1-train-simulator/c14-sounds/i731-class-60-sound-patch
    It requires this class 60 (obvs) and the AP sound pack. It's only meant as a temporary patch until AP make a move, (if they do). I do agree, it has a lot of potential, it's a shame there's only 2 nameplates - we know they can do nameplates that change depending on the loco number, so why not here?

    I don't know if anyone else has noticed, but I find the tail lights come on at both ends, unless I'm doing something wrong.
     
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  3. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    The sounds are TERRIBLE on that thing! The only good thing about it is the cab.
     
  4. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for that. I am not sure if I even own the AP sound pack so I might get it and the model.

    It is odd about the names as they were all named from the beginning if I recall, and quite an interesting collection of names.
     
  5. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    I wonder if Vulcan Productions might bring out repaints for this model?
     
  6. RobSkip

    RobSkip Well-Known Member

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    No plans, after all, why repaint something crap?
     
  7. inversnecky

    inversnecky Well-Known Member

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    I feel for the poor folks at DTG. If they read this, they’ll think why do we bother :)
     
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  8. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    If the textures are the issue then repainting them with high res textures solves the issue.
    If the base model is the issue (which doesn't seem to be the case here) then sometimes reskinning can solve certain issues
     
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  9. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    Ignoring the sounds why is it crap mr Skip
     
  10. BritishRail60062

    BritishRail60062 Active Member

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    That's harsh man. I know this add-on has faults like the wrong orientation, the drivers side cab window opens the wrong way and the sector logos to look squished and the blend of MB275T/VP185 sounds which as far as I am aware. No Class 60 locomotive was ever fitted with a VP185 unit. But its a bit step up from the JT version and if DTG at least fix the orientation of the locomotive and the drivers cab window. I can live with the sounds until AP makes an Enhancement Pack.
    I agree. It has its faults and its not perfect but its got a better cabview and it handles much better than the JT version. I think using the word crap is harsh.
     
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  11. BritishRail60062

    BritishRail60062 Active Member

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    I think to be fair to DTG and with convid ongoing and these lockdowns. DTG are doing their best under these trying times. The low and medium rpms are MTU but I dare say that the high rpms are from the VP185 and they blended it all together. The handling is also better than the JT version as well as the cab. If DTG fix the orientation and the drivers side cab window. I wonder if the orientation can be altered in the ,bin file? But the cab window can definitely be changed in their 3D program they use and its probably about a 2-4 hour fix and it should be fixed in a patch.
     
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  12. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    There is nothing like an in depth review!
     
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  13. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, they've used a whole host of sounds they have access to (nothing wrong with that IMO so long as it sounds alright), and they've done a good job on some tings (like the 72 stock in TSW), however here they've missed the target a bit I feel. I've seen someone say they can hear some of the 73's sounds in the Class 60. As for the HST, why they used the Kuju sounds which sound like a valenta for an MTU HST I have no idea, especially given it has some sounds from the TSW HST in it!

    I'll be honest, for some reason, I was expecting some of the Kuju 37 sounds mixed int here, can't hear any though - arguably a good thing?
     
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  14. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    I've had a brainwave - maybe not all the nameplates were included because they couldn't license them. Adam mentioned in a TSW stream that every nameplate needs to be licenced (as in most cases, it's someone's name).

    Just a thought and probably not true so don't quote me.
     
  15. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Some of the Westerns on TSW are unnamed for that reason, to be honest I wish they hadn't included them as it looks ridiculous having an unnamed Western!

    Many of the class 60's were named after people so they might be licenced but I would have thought it would be unlikely, although many might be the names of charitable trusts etc. Many class 60's were named after natural land marks, hills and mountains etc so I can't see how they are licenced as much of those would be common land I would have thought and if they are licenced then how very dare they, they should be public assets!
     
  16. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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  17. Slugsix

    Slugsix Member

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    Well you can guarantee the physics modelling of the loco will be wrong, but you can't really see that from the picture, you just know it!

    I wonder if we'll get a screech when it starts creeping. LoL.

     
  18. Slugsix

    Slugsix Member

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    Broken physics. Ooooo. Now there's a surprise! :)

    I still cringe when I see the old Class 37s acceleration going through the roof when they take a field divert. Where did all that extra horsepower come from! For heavens sake!

     
  19. Slugsix

    Slugsix Member

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  20. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Only one has been scrapped, they're in storage so "not gone" as such
     
  21. triznya.andras

    triznya.andras Well-Known Member

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    The Amps are in direct correlation with effort (force).
    Maybe the loco os overpowered from the get go, there was a discussion a couple days ago on getting out of Glasgow Queen Street.
    But, really, those 650 Amps are rather weak. My personal take, a train crippling itself to 20% power at 20 mph is either fail design, or fail modeling. Either way, pretty much all old UK engines are unsuitable for work (best presented by the old Woodhead scenario pulling an express uphill). Fortunately, there are no mountains or hills in the UK anywhere, so they can do their job.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2021
  22. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Don't these basically cancel themselves out?
    Agreed the UK doesn't have any major mountains to deal with
     
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  23. triznya.andras

    triznya.andras Well-Known Member

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    How is your Sarcasm-O-Meter today? :)
     
  24. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    I've spent most of my day dealing with construction managers and rewriting their documents into legible english that will pass an audit
    So probably fairly poor
     
  25. RobSkip

    RobSkip Well-Known Member

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    The model is a bit basic in areas, but without source it's very hard to retexture something from scratch. Add to that the less-than-impressive choice of shaders and very flat cab, you're quickly sinking more effort than it's worth into something that will likely see some form of AP touch in the near future. If/when an EP comes, it may be worth another look.
     
  26. Slugsix

    Slugsix Member

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    They might not be scrapped, but they're gone allright - at least 50% of them will never run again. Some of them are just shells now!

     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2021
  27. Slugsix

    Slugsix Member

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    You can compare the brake sounds to a real one at the link below. Start watching from, say 44:00 and listen to the brake sounds as the train is braked to a stand just before the peg on the approach to Cardiff Central and then allowed to roll forward.

    Perhaps they'd have been better off having no brake sounds at all..... :cool:



     
  28. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    I hope that was a typo and not tin foil hat nonsense.
     
  29. Slugsix

    Slugsix Member

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    It would seem as though North American junk isn't much better in this flat country of ours. Only today, 66116 failed to get up the hill from Par with a few wagons. Whoops...... :D

     
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  30. BritishRail60062

    BritishRail60062 Active Member

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    What about the ones that are named after places though?
    60004 Lochnagar
    60008 Moel Fammau
    60015 Bow Fell
    60044 Ailsa Craig
    60084 Cross Fell
    etc.
     
  31. claggybob

    claggybob New Member

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    I think there's hope for this one. The model is decent enough (apart from the window opening the wrong way); and apparently it lends itself reasonably well to re-skinning - I dare say someone will at least unsquish the sector logos before long. I don't -personally- think the cab numbering thing is a huge deal and that might be an easy(ish) fix to bin/script(?). The sounds are what they are; AP will most likely give it better ones - that it so often falls to them seems to be the way of the world.

    The 'biggie' seems to be physics/brake scripting, I don't think it's unreasonable to want DTG to do something about that; but interestingly(?) it might not be quite as broken as it first appears... I just noticed in TrainSimTV's review video that the brake gauge shows differently according to whether the instrument lighting is on or off (see from about 5m07s):

    R

     
  32. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    Loving all the nerd rage in this thread. Don your anoraks... duel!... Thermos flasks at dawn!
     
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  33. BritishRail60062

    BritishRail60062 Active Member

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    The first one that makes it to Toton Bank is the king! ;).
    Truth. This pack has a LOT of potential mate because look at Major Wales MJW and how they have transformed the HST's and the Class 153's with their overhaul packs. It really breaths life into those old trains. All this new Class 60 pack needs is an enhancement pack fixes to the errors and all will be grand. I look forward to the community reskins that will come in due course. I can just imagine DC Rail, GBRF, Colas and DB Cargo/Schenker liveries coming along either in an ap enhancement pack or as community reskins or even both! ;).
     
  34. ntypeman

    ntypeman Well-Known Member

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    PROPER names...
     
  35. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    Should have silly names... like the spaceships in Iain M Banks novels.
     
  36. RobSkip

    RobSkip Well-Known Member

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  37. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    Yes, it's an april fool's day joke they just accidently released it too early. Really the pack was supposed to be a Class 90 and they hurridly knocked together this Class 60 on a Friday afternoon after realising they couldn't do a 90...
     
  38. BritishRail60062

    BritishRail60062 Active Member

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    I wonder what reskins/repaints will be coming out for this first? I am looking forward to expanding on this add-on soon enough. I am already doing a scenario for WCML Shap which will be a hard-ish one.
    Screenshot_WCML Over Shap_54.62514--2.71328_09-00-34.jpg
    Should have the "Moel Fammau" plates to match if the Lima model is anything to go by but its better than nothing.
     
  39. BritishRail60062

    BritishRail60062 Active Member

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    I think an overhaul pack from MJW is needed for this add-on. That is the most fake looking nameplate I have ever seen! The 3D model clearly had no reference images to hand when doing these! Same with the other one. MJW or AP should make some real ones to replace these fake plates.
     
  40. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    Never have I seen two more different reviews of the same product.





    I do think Matt is a bit harsh though... but he has a point.. that sound is REALLY bad. It's not even mentioned in the other stream (obviously). Also, I noticed when Jamie was asked what period this is from, he just doesn't answer LOL... which is a shame because I'd like to know too, as there seems to be GWR liveried HSTs and Trainload liveried 60s in the same scenario on Matt's stream. It also happened on the other stream.. a new livery GWR HST passes their Trainload liveried 60... not a word said LOL

    I really want to do everything I can to support DTG and the future of Train Sim... but this loco is just a bit rubbish, sorry. As usual, I'll wait for the Major Wales or VP reskins... then I MIGHT buy it for AI duties. As others have said though, I'll probably be treating this is a TEA wagon pack, with a free class 60. The sound of the TEAs leaves a lot to be desired though too.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2021
  41. ntypeman

    ntypeman Well-Known Member

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    Question...

    In a nutshell which version is better... JT or DTG???

    Eric
     
  42. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    The DTG one is better without a doubt.... just stay in the cab so you don't have to listen to a Kuju HST :)
     
  43. RobSkip

    RobSkip Well-Known Member

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    The bogies on the TEAs aren't even animated, and whoever set them up has set the wheel diameter too high, as they turn too slowly. This addon is just an omnishambles.
     
  44. RobSkip

    RobSkip Well-Known Member

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    Addons shouldn't need any sort of revamp though, I'm more worried at the fact someone has made that, and decided it's good enough to go into the finished product. The person who made that nameplate clearly did not care enough to do a simple image search to find a photo of the plate before making it.
     
  45. RobSkip

    RobSkip Well-Known Member

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    I'd say about equal, not the best thing when one is 10 years older than the other.
     
  46. PhÜnKî_Rø0sTā

    PhÜnKî_Rø0sTā Well-Known Member

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    They must've read your mind. I checked the AP website and sure enough, it's gone. lol :D
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2021
  47. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    Yes, they took it down conveniently a few hours after I released my patch :D
     
  48. BritishRail60062

    BritishRail60062 Active Member

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    If you don't mind the VP185 sounds then the DTG one has a better cabview and the handling is better but the physics and the RPM of the power unit is wrong. The MB275T would never be revved up to 1500rpm as the peak is only a 1000rpm with idle about 400-500 hence why the real Class 60's do not scream when powering up as the turbos are smaller and I think the MB275T has one or two small ones rather than two large ones like the VP185's.
     
  49. BritishRail60062

    BritishRail60062 Active Member

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    Well I have some money put aside which was going to go towards a small break. But rona has put a spanner in the works on that front but I am content with Train Simulator and Model Railways. AP has my order in already. They just need to deliver on the goods and then I can have my fun with a new Class 60 that has good handling, proper sounds, proper physics and hopefully all that is wrong will be fixed as I mentioned before.
    I agree with you mate and to be fair to DTG on this occasion. Rona has put a lot of spanners in the works for many projects and stuff. So DTG had to make the best of a bad situation but why didn't they ask AP to use proper Class 60 sounds from their pack? That would have saved them some stick I am sure!
     
  50. USRailFan

    USRailFan Active Member

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    It is made by Ricardo Rivera according to the manual
     

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