Directx Version Upgrade

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by L0-Cache, Jan 25, 2020.

  1. inversnecky

    inversnecky Well-Known Member

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    ....or the money, or they can’t guarantee it doesn’t ‘break’ current DLC.

    it think it’s a low margin enough as it is, so they likely would struggle. Who knows...except the powers that be.
     
  2. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    And yet a lot of the stock on TSx is basically "jump in and go" without the functionality of the TSW equivalents. Obviously people like AP are putting in more function, but then you're also paying £25 a shot for the locos along with 6 scenarios which you need more of their stock for so it's twists and roundabouts
     
  3. Michael Newbury

    Michael Newbury Well-Known Member

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    I am a old fogie and I really enjoy TSW, it gives me a escape for a longer hard day.
     
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  4. Reef

    Reef Well-Known Member

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    Easiest way around that is a legacy version, you still have 32bit available so why not keep a legacy version of the current DX9 build too, only thing would be it wouldn't get future annual core updates, I don't think that would bother anyone playing their 8yr old dlc though would it?

    And anyway I'm sure someone would come up with a "fix" to get the older stuff working eventually, some clever people within this community a whole.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2021
  5. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Erm. From what I've seen on this (and a whole bunch of other forums) anything DTG do will be ripped to tatters. Anything anyone else does is excused, so yes, making it so that older DLC don't work would still be looked on like you'd shot their cat
     
  6. Reef

    Reef Well-Known Member

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    Only by the loud miniscule minority, I'm sure DTG (and anyone else with a brain between their ears) have learnt to drown out that constant whine by now. ;)

    The majority of the time those that constantly complain and soapbox on forums and other social media outlets are only a small dedicated handful, the fact that they then fill nearly every topic, thread, discussion with their complaining makes it seem a larger demographic than it actually is, they soon get weighed, measured and dutifully ignored by the masses once they've "broken record"-ed it a while.

    There are of course cases where the majority overwhelmingly shred a product (No Mans Sky anyone?) but that's usually for a far better reason than "My LocO dOn'T wOrK ProPpeRs.... Waaaaaaaa!"
     
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  7. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    :cool:
     
  8. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    You know, if they want help testing DLC with a new core, they have a group of beta testers who already own a lot of the merchandise and would be great testers...just have a targeted program where different DLC get explored at a time, and heck, maybe even make it an open beta for everyone. The main game itself, which is generally a DirectX upgrade and an improvement to the memory, comes with new routes that are not currently available for the original game. The open beta is to test all of the other products and could even be done by just copying the specific route files into the new directory, and see how it works. Later on, if things work, official Steam versions can replace these and anyone owning them already gets the new copy, like with TSW changing to TSW2.

    I'm not saying this WILL happen. But it's a lot of free beta testing that can be done.
     
  9. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    It's the "gameplay" that puts me off TSW... all that running around collecting things. Tat and the fact that it has around 1/300th of the stuff available for it that TS has... and no 3rd party support... and no real ability to create custom liveries.. or even share them if you can manage it. It's rubbish. I've uninstalled TSW... and never even bothered looking at TSW2. If you are a kid, or have the attention span of a spaniel, I suppose TSW is great. (shrug).
     
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  10. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    But Pookey, the ticket system. You need to know how to fix the ticket system! Otherwise, who will ride your ride?

    (Yes, sarcasm is intended.)
     
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  11. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    You don't need to do collecting
    You don't need to do the short runs (any more than you do in TSx)
    Don't know why attention span matters too much. A lot of people like 25-30 minute scenarios and aren't particularly interested in the hours on end green runs
     
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  12. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    I never said you did, and that's not necessarily what I'm referring to.
    What makes you think long scenarios are hours on end greens?

    Sorry... TSW has been out for ages now, and there's still a dearth of stuff available for it. Can't create your own stuff properly... can't share it... Can't import images to create stuff... editors are rubbish.... can't even TYPE text in, or use your own fonts... it sucks. It's designed for console users. Having actually used it, that is my opinion and it's not likely to be one I'll change until end user development, and 3rd party support happens... which it won't. And no.. Rivet making one DLC for it does NOT constitute an answer to the "no 3rd party DLC" argument either.
     
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  13. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    "Attention span of a spaniel" led me to that

    They invariably are. Anything over 120 minutes tends to have long sections of doing very little and are almost always one end of the route to the other rather than being mixed up. Only going by what I've seen on long scenarios so maybe there are interesting ones which don't do this, but I've yet to find any

    And the 3rd party stuff for TSx is any better? Incomplete, disorganised, multiple people making the same mistakes they accuse DTG of and forums that lambast anyone other than their own niche group. I have uninstalled more 3rd party routes because of basic errors such as sidings that are one way, branches that have no covering signals etc than I ever have DTG stuff.

    TSW has one thing going for it and that is that it's NOT on a couple of dozen different websites that you need one or two things each from and if you forget where you found it there's no consistency so you may never find it again (or even worse you buy something, the maker goes pop and there's no way of redownloading without paying to the ether again (again from experience))
    3rd party "support" for TSx is one reason that people run away as much as towards
     
  14. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    Yes.. invariably, it is much better than the DTG stuff. Are you saying the content created by AP, or JT, or Vulcan, or DPS, or AT, or Major Wales et al are in some way not as good as the DTG stuff? Besides, it's irrelevant, because TSW has NO 3rd party content, and no user generated content whatsoever. I don't even understand why you seem to be disagreeing here.
    You mean like the standard stuff on Steam for TS20xx? :)

    The difference is you have a choice with TS... you do not with TSW. I've had no trouble finding things again if required... which they're not because my Railworks folder is backed up any way, but even if it wasn't... when you download stuff, just put it in a folder and save it.

    It doesn't seem to have scared you away... you're still here, and you still use TS20xx. (shrug).
     
  15. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    God yes. All of them have their "faults" in one way or another if you want to use them out of the box (so to speak).

    DTG stuff is poor in many ways, but I'll give you an example. I have just bought TSx I want to us the MML scenario on DPS. How much pain and heartache do I have to go through to use it WITHOUT using F2 cancel? I have to download 17 additional packs (one of which is discontinued) and get them all installed and working before I can drive the scenario

    Another one - I have downloaded WCML phase 3 from ATS and I want create a scenario where there's a blocker coming in from the North Wales lines, but I can't because the covering signal is missing. Obviously ATS subscribers are as up in arms about this as they are about DTG stuff? No, of course they're not.

    What about AP?
    The company known for pulling their content so they can flog you their own upgrades and then reviewing every scenario they publish so that you have to use said content
    Yes their trains have good sounds and good scripting. That's where it ends

    So fine, if you download the assets and you use them in your own scenarios and on routes that you only want to drive point to point without being complete or basically accurate, I get your point. But no, I don't. I want to have branch lines that function correctly, scenarios you don't need to spend £200 to run properly (again, F2 cancel isn't for me) and I don't want to go back six months later to find the sound pack removed so they can charge another £20
     
  16. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    There was a specific item that I bought, but the website was withdrawn and couldn't be downloaded again. Can't remember what it was specifically now, but I think it was a tank wagon of some sort.


    And I use TSW because it does have some value, but as you said that must mean I have the attention span of a spaniel...
     
  17. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    So because you once forgot to save a copy of one file you downloaded, the entire open system that allows TS20xx to have 3rd party content is rubbish? Is that what you are saying?
     
  18. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    That's not what I asked. I asked you if they are demonstrably any worse than DTG products.


    You don't HAVE to. You can check the requirements before you download the scenario. If you feel it's not worth the effort because you don't have the requirements, then don't download it LOL. The fact is, you have a choice... the very fact that so many scenarios require so much DLC is a product of there BEING so much DLC to choose from. If you want scenarios with lighter requirements, go and visit the workshop where there are more than you can shake a stick at.


    So? Again, does this justify saying that the entire open system that allows TS to be so flexible and content rich is rubbish? What is your point. That not everything you can download is perfect? Well.. what next? You going to tell us the sky is blue or that rain is wet? :) I've got hundreds of scenarios and routes that work perfectly. Every now and then, one doesn't. I fail to see why one route from ATS having one specific issue is any different fro DTG releasing the tyre fire called WCML South. Neither is a reason to argue AGAINST the fact that having more choice in TS20xx is a good thing.
    Then don't buy their products. Again, choice. At least I have it.
    There are many. Are you seriously saying that you can't find this in TS because you give ONE example? Does that means everything is broken?
    Then stop downloading scenarios that need £200 of DLC. Use Workshop scenarios, or any of the many others that DON'T need £200 of DLC.


    Then next time you download an AP product... save a copy.

    Ultimately, it's not as if AP, or anyone else has you over a barrel. If you don't agree with their practices, then vote with your wallet, because unlike TSW, there are MANY other sources of DLC for Train Simulator.

    The fact is TSW has one single advantage that I can see: It looks nicer.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2021
  19. IronBladder

    IronBladder Well-Known Member

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    I agree with all points made about the advantages of TS2021 over TSW, but I'm not sure what the connection is with any possible hopes of DirectX upgrades to TS2021.
     
  20. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    "Worse" to you might mean something different than for me. Is a Ferrari a worse car than a Ford Mondeo. If I want to cart five kids around yes.

    For the rest, of course it's a choice, but you were the one saying TSW was rubbish (in your opinion) and comparing to things in TSx, which are also rubbish (in my opinion)
     
  21. mattdsoares

    mattdsoares Well-Known Member

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    There is if the two are sufficiently different and you have a large userbase for one that isn't willing to switch. Plus, maintaining the older game costs extremely little while you can continue to push out third party DLC and take a nice cut...probably why it's still being "supported".
     
  22. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    You were the one who asked "And the 3rd party stuff for TSx is any better?" In answer.. Yes.. yes it is. because there is no 3rd party support for TSW. Your whole argument here seems predicated on some pretty weird stuff... such as you once lost a file... or that one ATS route has a signalling issue... and because of this, you feel that TS20xx's 3rd party support offers no discernible advantage over TSW. That's like saying starving to death is better than not starving to death because you once bought some bacon that was a bit rancid.

    The only advantage TSW has over TS is the way it looks. The end.
     
  23. mattdsoares

    mattdsoares Well-Known Member

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    That's not entirely accurate. The collectibles are there if you want to engage in that, but you are in no way required to. You can completely ignore it if you like and you'll never even know it exists aside from one line of the tutorial for a route.

    As far as third party support, that's again not entirely true. Rivet are finishing their 2nd route for the game, Skyhook is working on one as well, and a couple other small devs are making rolling stock. As many as TS? Def not. But also false to say there's no third party support. Also, no, you cannot share skins or liveries on console. However you very easily can on PC if you'd like, and people do.

    TSW has enough flaws that you don't need to invent non-existent ones.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2021
  24. mattdsoares

    mattdsoares Well-Known Member

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    I'd also add that I, and many other TS fans do appreciate the ability to move around the space, walk through the trains, ride in any seat, walk around the stations. Makes you feel like you're playing a driver and not playing a train.

    Second I think the timetables are a really great addition that I wish would come to TS. You still get scenarios like TS with TSW, but you can also drive services on a real world (or approximation thereof) timetable. One of my annoyances with TS was always that if you wanted to drive a route you needed to have a scenario that you liked, find one you liked, or build one. With TSW I can pick the service, choose my season and weather, and go, and unlike QuickDrive from TS, I have a timetable to follow and actual stops to make with other Ai services following their own timetables. It's what QD SHOULD be in TS.
     
  25. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    2 routes in 2 years.

    I have 147 non Steam routes in TS. I couldn't even tell you how many vehicles and liveries I have.. hundreds any way. Scenarios? Likewise.. hundreds and hundreds... can't be bothered to count them all.

    When in TSW I can just randomly decide that I want to drive any loco, in any livery, on almost any route... then I will concede. Until that point, the one and only advantage to TSW is that it looks nice.
     
  26. mattdsoares

    mattdsoares Well-Known Member

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    As for the actual topic of a Direct X upgrade to DX11 or 12. Personally I highly doubt it. DTG seems to see profitability in maintaining TS while continuing to expand TSW because it's likely fairly cheap to keep TS alive in comparison to the revenue it generates. However updating TS would be a significant time investment while making the TS franchise closer in visual fidelity and performance to TSW, thus potentially cannibalizing sales more than it may already do. If I'm DTG, I probably doing see any good reason to do anything more with TS that release a few new routes per year, take a nice cut of all the 3rd party content that wants to get on Steam, and make a few small changes or bug fixes for the yearly edition. I just don't see the financial incentive to seriously upgrade TS.
     
  27. mattdsoares

    mattdsoares Well-Known Member

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    Indeed, a 15 year old game has more DLC than a 2 year old one. Shocker there. But thanks for pointing that out. I'm going to delete my Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020 installation because there are more planes and addons for the how many years old X-Plane or old FSX....

    But you said there was no third party support for TSW. That's just flat out wrong. Just correct yourself rather than move the goalposts. As this is the TS forum, most people here likely already prefer TS over TSW, so I'm not sure who you're preaching to by getting on your "TSW sucks" soapbox. Heck, I'm arguing with you "defending" TSW and I have literally 6x the amount of hours in TS than in TSW2 in the last 12 months. There are plenty of reasons to dislike TSW. You don't need to invent fake reasons.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2021
  28. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    Oh come one... ONE route from RIVET... is hardly 3rd party support. I don't need to "correct" myself. There's no 3rd party support from TSW. Cling desperately to that one single Rivet route all you want if it makes you feel better LOL
    It is, yes, because after 2 years Train Simulator had LOADS of 3rd party content. How do I know? Because most of it is still available, that's why. There was tonnes of stuff after 2 years.
    Because you keep debating the matter with me to try and "win". I make one post calling TSW a pointless console game, and you all go into full on nerd rage... it's hilarious.

    It's a console game. It was developed for consoles, and is crippled by that choice. The end.
     
  29. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    It's all pointless. DTG have categorically said many, many times that they will not be updating the core engine of TS. What's to discuss?
     
  30. mattdsoares

    mattdsoares Well-Known Member

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    LOL ok Pookey. You do you.

    [​IMG]
     
  31. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    Ooooh.. don't post memes in here... you'll have Peter complaining to the moderators and telling us all how UKTS forums don't stand for such nonsense. LOL
     
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  32. mattdsoares

    mattdsoares Well-Known Member

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    ..when they're not down!! :)
     
  33. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    well.. there is that, yes LOL
     
  34. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    I've not had one single crash of any kind on TSW
    I can buy any TSW route and play every service made for it without going to any other source
    I can have TSW, youtube and just about anything else running on my PC without noticable slowdown
    I'm not concerned that the next time I update a route or an asset DLC that half the scenarios will be updated / removed or that I will need to spend another £25 on DLC to support that route / scenario

    None of the above could I say about TSx

    And I acknowledged that in some ways it is, but in many others it is not.
     
  35. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    Oh well.. maybe TS is not for you then seeing as you think it's so terrible. You sure you're in the right forum? :)

    So can I. Why I'd want to watch YouTube videos AND use TS at the same time is beyond me though. I often have Premiere encoding video in the background while playing. What spec is your PC? Looks like you need more RAM and a few more cores.

    No.. you just end up having actually played all your limited array of scenarios and then being bored waiting for DTG to release the next route. (shrug). Incidentally, I've never had to pay anything more to carry on playing something I already have.

    I can count on one hand how many times that's happened to me in the years I've been using it.. outside of the 64bit world editor that is.. which I admit is flakey. On the occasions it has, it was resolvable. It's the nature of an open system. I'll gladly take that over spending £29 on a route, and being bored with it within a couple of weeks because I've done all the scenarios and time tables (which are all the same any way), then sit there for weeks, or even months waiting for DTG to drip feed me with more DLC because there's literally nothing more available.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2021
  36. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    Well, let's look at a counter-argument. They could very well keep a guy alone on the "team" working on figuring out an upgrade, and then eventually migrate the rest of the team over as it gets close to bring all new content to a new version of the game.

    Think this is a cocked up concept? Let's look at American Truck Simulator. I guarantee you they're been working on Texas now for over a year, maybe two. They have a guy making all the textures and designing everything. At some point - possibly after Colorado as they clear states to the north first - the rest of the team will move over and apply all of the new ideas from these last three expansions there, and we'll have a Texas DLC not long after the others. Because doing Texas by itself on the team would have taken too long and been too costly, but keeping that one guy working alone on things while the rest of the team went to other projects is going to lead to Texas coming out at a similar schedule as the others.

    So this is a concept on game teams. The question is whether DTG has put a guy on the team to work out how to do these upgrades. Of course, they won't tell us because they don't want to tip their hat in case it turns into expectations by us for something that can't be delivered, which would pretty much end the original TS as an unmarketable and unable to be upgraded product. So they will keep us hoping and guessing, and buying things in the meantime.

    I am still waiting to see if any of my ideas will be utilized. North Wales Coastal for instance should go to Stafford, but may not get there and may stay at the Crewe terminus if they even re-release it. Toronto as a freight and GO passenger service, with an SD75I for freight in CN livery (add in CN and CP liveries of the SD40-2, GP38-2, maybe an ES44AC, etc.) is, in my view, an absolute must to sideline the BNSF SD75 that international users cannot acquire. Speaking of BNSF, they may see no point in unbranding the locos, but it is my hope they will at the very least create new skins using those models and release those skins, possibly with slightly improved scripting (but not mandatory). Whatever they release in this case can serve as a replacement for mods using BNSF skins like the GP38-2 and SD45-2, and I strongly hope for a Clinchfield SD45-2 which is a missed opportunity. DTG could do all of this, but even then, a version upgrade is tantamount to the game's future success. Do we milk the cow dry and chop it into steaks, or let it graze for the next few years and reap the benefits? That's what the choice is.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2021
  37. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    DTG have repeatedly said that there will never, ever be a core upgrade for TS. You need to heal.. and move on :)
     
  38. Reef

    Reef Well-Known Member

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    I'm truly amazed, you have even more of an insider knowledge of SCS than I do, but then I'm only a closed senior beta tester since 2014 so I may have missed something.
     
  39. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    It's not insider knowledge. Texas is a huge state. It would take way longer to do that than, say, Oklahoma right above it. I actually wonder if Oklahoma will be done before they unlock Texas because, at that point, all paths north of it are available except, perhaps, Wyoming. And we obviously still need Montana, which is also a huge state, but Texas has a bigger interest ATM and provides eventual quick access to the area near Florida, possibly leading the game to the eastern coast, instead of to Minnesota and Michigan, which would suggest that a foray into Canada is suitable (they will finish America first if they even consider Canada or Mexico, so the many cities in the Mexico mods will have to do for now). They could also do with Oklahoma what they did when introducing Utah and create a highway across a different state - in this case, Texas - in the same way Utah added another previously unseen highway crossing Arizona's northwest corner). Therefore, they need the textures made up for Texas. They can later connect that highway with the rest of the Texas DLC. So like I said, they have someone working on Texas. I'm fairly sure of it.

    EDIT: As of December 21, 2020, Texas is indeed confirmed to be the next state after Wyoming. So Wyoming is the next project after Colorado, then Texas. Still wondering where Oklahoma fits into this; the panhandle of Oklahoma, after all, will be such a tiny space to cover in the game, and routes from Texas to places like Wyoming would cross it normally; maybe the highways will be built, with other roads added later but with parts of the highways also part of the Oklahoma DLC when it comes.

    I'm sorry, Dave. I'm afraid I cannot do that.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2021
  40. martschuffing

    martschuffing Well-Known Member

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    Peter, I'm shocked mate at you being sarcastic! You are usually straighter than a vicars pair of gym shorts:D
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2021
  41. martschuffing

    martschuffing Well-Known Member

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    Plus Sam said in a recent stream that doing so would break too many things.
     
  42. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    Yet this thread keeps rolling on... with people discussing things that will never happen.
     
  43. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    What? Why? LOL.. are you saying that you refuse to accept that DTG will not update the game engine of TS? They've said they will not.. ever. Seriously... move on.
     
  44. SJA

    SJA Active Member

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    I don't personally feel there's any value in living in hope for a new DX upgrade. Third parties are doing the majority of propping up TSxx so we might as well just enjoy the next/possibly final few years of quality content coming out for it from them, and see how far the old sim can be pushed :)

    That's how I'm viewing it, anyway. I just can't seem to get into TSW and have notched about 6 hours on it in the last year.
     
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  45. raptorengineer

    raptorengineer Active Member

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    i been looking around for ways that DTG possibly take ts2021 to dx level like godot or rockstart game engine. but it too much of pain i figer. oh well. one can dream
     
  46. inversnecky

    inversnecky Well-Known Member

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    What does Nostradamus say? Surely there's a direct and specific prediction in his quattrains?
     
  47. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    You didn't even get the reference joke I was going for there.
     
  48. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    I'm afraid not.
     
  49. inversnecky

    inversnecky Well-Known Member

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    2001.
     
  50. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    LOL.. of course.
     

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