Wcml Vs Ecml (high Speed) (uk)

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Olaf the Snowman, Mar 1, 2021.

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  1. Class 800/801

    15 vote(s)
    22.4%
  2. Class 91

    28 vote(s)
    41.8%
  3. Class 390

    22 vote(s)
    32.8%
  4. Class 221

    2 vote(s)
    3.0%
  1. Olaf the Snowman

    Olaf the Snowman Well-Known Member

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    These two seem to be the most wanted routes in the UK. To keep it simple, I’m going to compare them for InterCity/high speed services and in the modern era. I may do other threads for freight/commuter and other eras.

    East Coast Mainline (ECML)

    Route:

    6570D30D-2F8B-4962-8206-E92321C46653.jpeg

    Traction:

    Class 91

    02A77570-F686-4B39-A3A6-3787EC17F943.jpeg

    Class 800:

    172BBC40-0F79-47FE-945C-C24C151102A4.jpeg


    Class 91 cab

    9C633EB9-1874-4901-BAC9-10F6420C81C5.jpeg

    Traction from different eras on the ECML seen together for this special event. HST could easily be added without much extra effort as it’s already been modelled on GWE. Last HST service for LNER was Dec 2019.
    CB479859-1714-45FE-9C31-9EF20A3D40DC.jpeg

    The case

    The ECML is an extremely iconic route with some fantastic traction.
     
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  2. Olaf the Snowman

    Olaf the Snowman Well-Known Member

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    WCML

    Route

    B603E03A-A8DF-4BE0-A873-85694E72BD4A.gif

    Traction

    Class 390 and 221 alongside each other
    A69A0A6C-320D-4A8C-A4E5-C9B9D0E73ED8.jpeg

    Class 390 cab

    DCC99F1A-A782-4207-882C-CB12B058958F.jpeg

    Class 221 cab

    65630018-6C86-41B3-93F5-11C785885324.jpeg

    The case

    Probably not as iconic as the ECML (it’s subjective) but would offer something very different. The only tilting trains in the UK. Class 390s can tilt up to 8 degrees while Class 221s can tilt up to 6 degrees.

    Class 390 tilting

    9C497200-61D7-45C5-8E0F-7D956B8870C5.jpeg
     
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  3. Ferrovipathe67

    Ferrovipathe67 Well-Known Member

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    For me the Ecml is better because my favorite train in in the united kingdom is the class 91 with the MK4 cars and this class 800 I think an HST would be incredible and a class 365 and Class66:cool:
     
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  4. Ferrovipathe67

    Ferrovipathe67 Well-Known Member

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    I think the Ecml better because the are more prestigious that is the cabin where the main trains the Eclm would be a better addition than the WCML.
     
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  5. 43050

    43050 Well-Known Member

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    If we implemented freight and older locos the WCML hands down!
     
  6. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    Out of all of the options it would have to be the Class 390 on WCML, and preferably Crewe to Liverpool section included. I’m tilting towards my home line you see.
     
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  7. HamioSamio098

    HamioSamio098 Well-Known Member

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    To be honest, as much as I like the 390 and the WCML, I had to go with the ECML. Just because it is the closest fast line to me (I live just south of Lincoln) and the Class 91 is just awesome! It was the first high speed train I ever went on. And not so long ago (I say that, around 2-3 years ago) myself and my family were heading down to London and the 'Bounds Green' Intercity Swallow liveried 91 pulled in and must have gotten very excited!


    Oh and don't forget about the 'Happy Train' Class 365!
     
  8. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Class 800/801 because they're capable of Running 140 mph and replace the Class 91 IC 225 sets which date back to 1988-1991 when the ECML electrification project was completed. Class 800 is a dual mode train which should enable you to run ECML services that aren't electrified like Forth Rail Bridge or Sunderland bound from Kings Cross.
     
  9. Olaf the Snowman

    Olaf the Snowman Well-Known Member

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    I think somewhere like Crewe would be a good locations to have DLCs. The issue with London Euston/Kings Cross is to make the route meaningful, you would need to have the route to at least Birmingham (112 miles), for example which they won’t do. Even though, Euston - Milton Keynes (50 miles) is longer than say, Crewe - Liverpool (38 miles), the latter does seem more meaningful and satisfying because you’re starting and finishing at two big stations. Milton Keynes (or Peterborough on the East Coast) would seem a frustrating place to finish a journey for InterCity services.

    Crewe would be a fantastic place to build around with lots of variety. For example:

    Base DLC: Crewe to Liverpool (38 miles) with Class 390s and Class 350s
    Extension 1: Crewe to Manchester (30 miles). Add Class 323s
    Extension 2: Crewe to Chester (21 miles). Add Class 221s
    Extension 3: Crewe to Shrewsbury (32 miles). Add Class 175s and/or Class 15x sprinters
    Extension 4: Crewe to Preston (51 miles). Add maybe the Sleeper train (Class 92) or Class 325 postal train

    Good opportunities for freight too.
    Of course, you don’t have to buy all or any extensions if you don’t want to.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2021
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  10. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I would prefer the WCML as I think it is more interesting scenically, certainly the further north you go, I know the Newcastle to Edinburgh section of ECML has some lovely parts.

    However of those choices of traction the class 91 appeals to me the most.

    A WCML set in the early 90's with class 86, 87 and 90 would be fantastic.
     
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  11. UnlimitedMagic

    UnlimitedMagic Well-Known Member

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    I would prefer WCML. As it has the 390, 221, 350.
    And if it was an extension to the Bakerloo line we could get the 378 for the Watford DC line which runs along side the WCML most of the time

    I think first it would go to Milton Keynes. Then extended to Birmingham New Street. And maybe further on

    This all does come down to whether Avanti West Coast and London Northwestern are willing to give a licence
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2021
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  12. 43050

    43050 Well-Known Member

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    Totally agree with what you say above... however, ECML in the 70s with Deltics!!!! All 22 with names, FP ones with white window surrounds!
     
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  13. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Yes that would be an excellent add-on. Maybe the Deltic would give DTG a reason to make a 70's route.
     
  14. TinTin_57

    TinTin_57 Well-Known Member

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    390 on WCML. Any stretch as long as it includes Preston. I’m a Preston lad bred and buttered
     
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  15. xblackwolf90

    xblackwolf90 Well-Known Member

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    390/221 for me on WCML.

    Purley because it's a route I've travelled many times myself. Also, a modern DMU would make a nice change from so many EMUs that we have already.
     
  16. GoldenTicket420

    GoldenTicket420 Well-Known Member

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    I would choose wcml,but wouldn't mind havingeither of them or both honestly lol
     
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  17. hibiki

    hibiki Well-Known Member

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    WCML Preston to Carlisle, set in late 80s, with Class 108 added for DMU runs upto Lancaster
     
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