Class 465 Seat Height And Field Of View Issues?

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by londonmidland, Mar 4, 2021.

  1. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    I've noticed that the players head seems to be positioned very high whilst sitting in the drivers seat of the 465. You have to move the camera down in order to see the speedometer.

    Secondly the field of view seems narrow and the camera seems very close to the windscreen.

    Below of comparisons of the 465 and 166, both are at default settings and camera placements.

    Ideally I would like a middle ground of the 166 and 465 camera height. The field of view on the 166 is better, however.

    166:
    TSW2_Josh_1614893252_00.jpg

    465:
    TSW2_Josh_1614893561_00.jpg
     
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  2. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    The height matches where the top of the seat is.
     
  3. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    I think to fix the issue, the chair height needs to be made height adjustable. It is in real life and I'm sure there is a least one train in TSW which support this feature?

    Secondly, the field of view is way too restrictive. I want to be able to access and view the things in front of me. Not having to keep moving the camera up and down.
     
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  4. Callum B.

    Callum B. Well-Known Member

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    Yes, the driver does appear to be sitting unusually high. I have only sat in the driver's seat of a Turbostar, not a Networker, but it does not feel like a natural sitting height.

    I am not sure what you mean by this. The view seems wider, because like you said, the camera appears to be somewhat closer to the window. This is a natural effect of a shorter focal length.
    EDIT: Never mind, I understand what you mean about the field of view of the driver's controls. I misunderstood your statement to be with regards to the outward view.

    Cheers
     
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  5. ulf

    ulf Member

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    It would be nice if cab camera height was adjustable and you could zoom out go get a wide view of the cab.
     
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  6. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    You would move your head in real life.
     
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  7. kieranharvey95

    kieranharvey95 Member

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    I drive these trains for work, this position is too high, at least in the sense that I know no colleagues who have the chair that high. The clipboard is a good way to gauge where the eye level should be, you'd basically be level with that (the silver clip). This does look way to high, I have to reach and look up to the light controls, I don't sit almost level with them :D

    Thinking of doing a little breakdown of the entire train from a Driver's perspective, a lot of things actually seem really well done, acceleration is a tad too much, power step 3 is more reminisent of full power from my current expereience in them, and the brakes are a lot worse in the real thing, Metcam's are not known for their amazing brakes.

    Having fun with this! :D
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2021
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  8. ASRGT

    ASRGT Well-Known Member

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    The issue might not be so much the height as it is the the games field of view. Remember your viewport in a game is essentially a virtual camera and in this regard its like having a camera strapped to your forehead.
    If the FOV is too narrow the perspectives wont be what is expected with what you see in reality. Example we have around 135degress of horizontal FOV and 180 degrees of vertical.
    The issue is if you where to just try an replicate this and set a games FOV to 135 Horizontal you would wind up with horrible fish eye effect because the game will only respect FOV in either Vertical or Horizontal based on game engine and or camera setup and much technical hoohaa , so if you have a horizontal field of view of a say 90 that would be far more representative than the often used 60 degrees in games however you would wind up with a fish eye effect due to the vertical fov not changing. This is why 55 - 60 is often used as it reduces the fish eye effect drastically however this is a very narrow FOV compared with what your used to seeing.

    This can be seen in all games a good one for all of us would be racing games as most of us are familiar with the view out of our cars compared with what you get in a first person driving game are worlds apart. Another example take a camera phone and put it where you head would be in your car take a picture and the effect we see on this loco would be the exact same thing in your car for example.

    Anyway what's the point of this pointless nonsense :P well basicly it highlights how important it is on PC for an FOV slider with some decent range to not only suit individuals preferences and comfort but also to allow flexibility for the multiple aspect ratios on offer in the PC space.

    In short FOV slider that goes from 50 - 120 would be nice but better luck getting blood out of a stone would be my bet.
     
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  9. bescot

    bescot Well-Known Member

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    As a test I've use universal Unlocker to change the fov when using the 465. Eg FOV 105 so the Speedo is in view. It still looks too high, you are looking down at the track and the top of the panel of the desk and it still feels very unnatural.

    Please lower the seat or eye height DTG.

    Photo shows a widened FOV @105.
    Sorry I used my mobile rather than a screenshot so the colours are way off!
     

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  10. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    DTG JD DTG Natster Apologies for the ping but can we please get this resolved ASAP? A lot of people aren’t happy with the current seat height, with it being too high.

    This is both from players and the people that actually drive these trains in real life.

    Perhaps to avoid this issue in the future, it would be a good idea to make the seat adjustable. It’s been done in the past.

    Thanks.
     
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  11. Callum B.

    Callum B. Well-Known Member

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    I agree, this needs to be a top priority. It is literally unplayable in its current state.

    Cheers
     
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  12. Redbus

    Redbus Well-Known Member

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    If the POV and FOV were fully adjustable in-game this would no longer be an issue. TSW is severely lacking basic camera functionality.
     
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  13. Mr JMB

    Mr JMB Well-Known Member

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    I heard the response from DTG is they asked drivers and they said this looks right...so...obviously not the driver in this thread...:D Adjustable seats as norm would be good. Hopefully something that could be rolled out more widely.
     
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  14. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    If the seat is adjustable in the real train it would have been nice to have that modelled. It also looks like it’s been modelled at the seat’s highest extension if that’s the case, for those tiny train drivers. It immediately struck me as being too high in the live streams and I agree it needs to be lowered.
     
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  15. kieranharvey95

    kieranharvey95 Member

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    I think it is almost as if the camera is on the forehead and not the eye level, bringing it down slightly would do the trick, aim for a level eye in line with the silver clip on the clipboard is what I would advise :)

    Adjustable seat would be pretty awesome though!
     
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  16. kieranharvey95

    kieranharvey95 Member

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    Must be much taller drivers who like their seat high :D

    It is a fair point that some drivers like it much higher than others, some really low too, it's more what feels comfortable especially when keeping down the DSD pedal. In the 375/376 it's really important to get a good seating position so your natural leg weight is keeping the pedal down, or it can be hard to comfortabley keep in depressed :)

    EDIT: Will also add, the second man side seat is very low down too, you can see much more than that in that seat :)
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2021
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  17. TinTin_57

    TinTin_57 Well-Known Member

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    I didn't pick up this DLC largely because of the seat position and how it seemed to break immersion for me. I like to feel I am in a cab without having to look down for the dials etc
     
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  18. kieranharvey95

    kieranharvey95 Member

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    It is still a very nice rendition of a Metcamm Class 465 mate, a few things I like and dislike but overall I would still reccomend!
     
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  19. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    There was a thread asking for a fov slider and I think that is something that should come to the game as soon as they work on optimization or at the very least give us adjustable seats like in the past. Had that been in the game, nobody would be having a issue.
     
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  20. ASRGT

    ASRGT Well-Known Member

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    Really would not let this get in the way if its of interest to you as its one of DTGs best add-ons so far imo regardless of the limited services.
     
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  21. kieranharvey95

    kieranharvey95 Member

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    I'll echo that again, it is still a really nice DLC and would highly reccomend!
     
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  22. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    The train is nice but the current route is too short to get a decent amount of gameplay time out of it
     
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  23. fakenham

    fakenham Well-Known Member

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    The one problem with the height of the 166 seat is that when it rains, you can't see the tracksigns because the wiper sweep doesn't sweep the lower part of the windscreen. So maybe they are similar-ish models and they decided to increase the cab view height to get around this problem?
     
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  24. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    Have the seat to have adjustable heights will solve all these issues. It’s one simple thing which was overlooked.
     
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  25. rostdor

    rostdor New Member

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  26. ulf

    ulf Member

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  27. DTG Natster

    DTG Natster Producer Staff Member

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    londonmidland this is something we have already discussed internally as we are aware is something the community would like to see changed. I believe it was measured before implementing however when playing, it just feels a bit inaccurate and too high up.
    The problem is related to the field of view, so where you at that height in the cab for real you'd see more of the cab, because of how the field of view works in the game you can see less of the desk from the same position.

    I agree in the future having adjustable seats would be the better option, but I can't guarantee that will happen.

    I will keep you updated if there's more news to share about the seat position.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2021
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  28. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the reply. This highlights one of many issues with lack of user customisation when it comes choosing your own graphical settings, as well as other options within the game. There really should be an option in the settings section to change this.

    In the meantime, me and another user made some Class 465 fixes, which fixes the seat height issue, as well as some interior enhancements. This can be found here. This is of course an unofficial fix and is for PC only.
     
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  29. volvolover1972

    volvolover1972 Well-Known Member

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    I could be wrong, but I think some locos from earlier routes in TSW 2020 did have adjustable seat height. The class 37 and 40 come to my mind as having it. So I don’t think it would be something new for DTG to implement.
     
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  30. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    This definitely isn’t new to TSW as it’s been utilised in the past. I think in cases were seats are adjustable in real life for a particular train, it should be modelled to do so in TSW as well.

    In the case of the 465, I think the developers simply ‘forgot’ that this feature existed.
     
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  31. Rob39

    Rob39 Well-Known Member

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    A970763D-B9BB-4E35-8D31-422BEE87FEE4.jpeg Is the driver eye line position based on how an ai character is sat in the drivers seat. If so it may be incorrect in general as Ive seen a few examples where characters are too big in scale compared to the seat they are sat on, and in turn will be higher and closer to the windscreen.
     
  32. JetWash

    JetWash Well-Known Member

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    For what it’s worth I don’t think the issue with the 465 is a FOV thing. In the default position to read/use the destination controller and GSM-R the driver would literally have to duck down to see them, and even if the players head was set back further I’m not sure that would change. To me that would likely indicate the players eye position is too high.

    I believe the position is measured in relation to the base of the seat to determine where they place the camera which is absolutely fine, if the seat height is correct in the first place.

    A moveable seat as we’ve seen in a number of other DLC would solve the issue. The position picked in the mod above seems far more natural and ergonomically correct to me.

    ps Regarding the GWE Class 166, I believe the position in that unit is too low.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2021
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  33. seancrabtree2003

    seancrabtree2003 Active Member

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    I dont see the issue due to a real driver would have to look up down and around the cab. Yes it be nice for a better view of adjusted seats. I don't find it annoying
     
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  34. WaveyDavey

    WaveyDavey Well-Known Member

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    I notice the other user has updated their seat height mod today..... Will you be updating your enhancements mod too to reflect the change with Nina's mod or can I install Nina's mod too?
     
  35. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    Hi, yes I’ll update that pack tonight to include the updated height seat mod too so it all works properly with the recently updated 465. Thanks.
     
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  36. WaveyDavey

    WaveyDavey Well-Known Member

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    Nice one. ;)
     
  37. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    This has now been updated. See here
     
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  38. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    The 465 update broke the mod?
     
  39. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    Nope. It just didn't update with the mod enabled, so me and Nina update our mod again which fixed it.
     
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  40. Subway#2400

    Subway#2400 Active Member

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    Excellent mod, thank you ! The default view is way too high ! The 465 is neatly reproduced and that was ruining the driving experience.
     

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