Hey guys, can we just all take a minute and have 1 day off from all the moaning and say thank you DTG! We've done a lot of moaning recently (with good reason), but you've actually done bloody good with both the 465 and the TS fastload update. I'm sure there are little issues here and there, but on the whole, I think we should be pretty pleased (at least until tomorrow. Haha ). Oh and P.S. Let's hope DTG realise how important sounds are to the game and how happy it makes everyone when they're done right. Time to hire some more sound guys into your team! Or....just use AP for everything
Many people only use AP content in TS for a reason, unfortunately I suspect that we have many more poor audio experiences inbound, DTG are very good with Train Modelling, but have to depend on external teams and individuals such as TSG, AP & whoever the mystery man that did the 166 & HST was. In any case the 465 is brilliant, and goes in with all the other stuff that really makes TSW great, hopefully we will see more consistent quality going forward with TSW 2.
I agree with you. And I confirm, the sound work is very important and the Class 465 is the very good example.
Well done indeed! The sounds of the 465 make it a joy to drive. For the last few months I have been exclusively TSW and, until the 465, mostly driving German content. It had gotten to the point in Train Simulator where there were very few locomotives that I would drive because of the wide variances in sound quality and physics; I was almost exclusively in a Searchlight Simulations SD40-2 or AC 4400 when I wasn’t driving Smokebox steam. For German routes, it was mostly a Proline 101. Since I have made the switch to TSW, I have enjoyed thousands of kilometers on multiple German routes and I look forward to many kilometers of cab time in the 465 in SEHS. However, I miss the North American experiences I had in TS. (Sherman Hill beckons!) I have just over 700 miles on Sand Patch Grade; the more I drive it, the more I appreciate the route. However, the loco sounds, specifically the horns, diminish the experience for me. I am excited about the upcoming North American routes and hopeful that the diesel locomotive experience will be as spot on as the EMU experience is with the 465.
My feedback 14 euros for a single train are not few, but if the sounds and the immersion that these give to the driver will ALWAYS be like those of the 465 THEN are money well spent. Finally it feels like driving a real train. I hope they will repeat in the future.
This is true. I must say when it comes to modelling the trains they get it spot on and they do it via images and not laser scanning the train sorta like how you would scan a racetrack for a racing game so bravo to the team for that Now even though I didn't buy the 465 because for me the route and services are too short to get a decent amount of gametime with it the sounds are good because of AP. I suspect that if AP had not been involved, dtg would have bottlenecked the sounds. DTG are good at modelling trains but they have to rely on third parties to get good quality or even accurate sounds which isn't a bad thing but it does show that in a lot of cases, dtg aren't able to deliver good quality sounds on their own which is not good so I hope either dtg improve or do more collaboration with third parties in the future.
Could not agree more the sounds on this are what i expect from TSW and frankly there is very few that achieve this bar. The problem is though DTG is very inconstant in this are, some locos that have had sounds sourced from AP and Linus i think it was ? regardless they sound amazing on the flip side sorry to say most that come from in house at DTG tend to be poor. The 465 is a real gem both sound and visuals but also its functions , little things like the hazard lights ect its one of there best so far lets hope they once again understand this is the level they should be hitting each release. And yes it is a train that for once feels like a train 10/10 for this one.
I agree, and I hope this means that DTG will continue to use Armstrong Powerhouse for future releases. Looking at the roadmap, I am praying that they use AP for the Class 313 for East Coastway and the Class 314 for Cathcart Circle as that will instantly make those DLC's great. It's immersive sound that means that other issues with TSW such as draw distance and poor scenery can be more easily overlooked.
Add my compliments for this add on. From the east coast of the US so have no clue as to what this emu sounds like in the flesh, but the in game experience is great. Now I can hope that the Clinchfield will give equal results once it comes out.
I can assure you, the 465 sounds pretty bloody close to real life. Especially the traction motor and regen brake sounds. Very distinctive, and they got them bang on. I wouldn't expect anything less from AP to be honest.
I think that there is a serious misapprehension reflected in many, many comments above, to the effect of "Buy sounds from AP, plug into train model: magic!" This is not accurate, and I think unfairly robs credit from DTG's new sound engineer, who started work fulltime about a month ago (i.e., right in line with the 465's final development). The important thing in sound engineering is the mixing. Not the source material. All DTG got from AP were sound files, but a raw sound file is nothing unless it's integrated properly and, dare I day, artfully into the simulation. (To say nothing of program cueing, and distance/focus issues, and compression codecs - which are what went wrong with the Preserved Collection -, et cetera et cetera). They only work as well as they do with the 465 (and judging by the stream, they work brilliantly) because of outstanding mixing- and that's all to DTG's credit, not AP.
It is very true markhazeldine it is worth acclaiming all the good bits of TSW2 and I try to include a balance in my posts, because there is nothing worse than spending ages working on something only to have all the bad bits highlighted repeatedly without people mentioning the good bits . Paul
Well they did get a new audio engineer so let's see how he does. Maybe he'll give us high quality sounds like ap
Not giving credit to AP for the sounds is being petty. I think DTG and AP did a good job, I hope this is the new standard.
Best to consider the sounds on the 465 as a joint effort. We purchased AP's excellent source audio and then our audio team implemented it into the train, which is no simple task - but it needs great source audio AND great implementation for the magic to happen as it has here. So from me, a big thank you to both AP *and* our Audio team
There was no new dedicated audio engineer at all. There was a new “tech guy” who does audio as part of the job, for the preservation team. Adam is always insistent in describing this member of the team that way on the streams.
There were no new team members involved in the 465, no, that was the usual TSW audio team. I think stu is right and the new audio person referenced is adam's new team member on preserved crew who does audio as well as other things and he's busy on preserved crew stuff, not new products Matt.
I've just been corrected - it wasn't the internal audio team that worked on the 465, it was in fact Ed Fisk (who also re-did the Class 166 and HST audio and has done many other projects too) I now hang my head in shame, and apologise unreservedly to Ed Matt.
AP only provided the field recordings. That's like giving the farmer credit for a great restaurant meal.
I'd like to add my thanks to the team here too. Bought the 465 yesterday on the basis of all the positivity on here and boy it doesn't disappoint! In fact after driving it and then going back to any other UK stock like the 395 or the electrostar it actually feels like a massive step down. Everything handles, sounds and looks beautiful. The only suggestions I'd have is to allow us to adjust the seat height like we can on some of the BR blue locos and dim the interior coach lighting but that's it! Oh and make sure they actually turn up as AI.
Agreed, I took the 395 out last night and you just don't get any sensation of acceleration from the sounds, even in exterior view the motor sounds completely cut out at like 35mph. The 465 adds a huge quality boost to the experience of SEHS, hopefully we can get some AI fixes for it.
Here's some positivity. I decided to finish my Sand Patch Grade mastery challenges, so chose a drive from Rockwood to Cumberland to get some miles in. Best fun I've had driving a sim train in ages: I just loved managing the brakes on the descent. Superb stuff
It is the quality of those recordings that we have a great sounding 465. Your Analogy of 'farmers' getting credit seems strange when they do all the time whether it is quality Beef right through to Farmers Bread.
A chef can make a masterpiece with Sainsbury's house brand; a hack can ruin Kobe beef. it is the sound engineer, like the chef, who deserves the lion's share of the credit. Certainly it's unfair to give all the credit to the farmer and pretend that with good ingredients no culinary skill or effort was involved.
So if you go to a posh restaurant you would be a happier with a cheap steak rather than a farmers best cut? I knew I married wrong.......
Well, if you want to keep on believing that AP makes magic sound files, which only require being shoved into a loco model and Instant Wonderfulness, feel free.....
Not all recordings are created equally, from experience. It is more than plausible that whichever of DTG's audio engineers that does the physical recording simply isn't as good at recorder setup and placement, resulting in poorer samples.
The near-silent 395 is a function of poor mixing, not low-quality samples. The 146, M7 and other Preserved Collection locos also demonstrate how a perfectly good recording can wind up sounding awful due to poor processing, not the raw source.
In the case of the 395 the samples are (bar the motors, which are mediocre) either non-existent or taken directly from other stock. Yes, mixing plays a large part, but so does the source.
Stock sounding fundamentally incorrect is rarely a fault of mixing, it is generally the fault of poor original samples, as shown in TSW with the 182 and 47 even before the ruination of 'preservation'.
Sounding "incorrect" is not the same thing as sounding bad. Yes, there are lots of examples where the wrong engine sound was used, in some cases dating back to Kuju- but that doesn't apply to some of the worst offenders. I am not saying DTG shouldn't acquire the most accurate and highest fidelity recordings they can! What I am objecting to is the idea that all you need is a good sound file and the train will automatically sound good, as if sound mixing is not a complex art and difficult to get right. A bad mix can't be saved by AP files.
That is what I have been trying to say. DTG have a poor record when it comes to sound, they admit that on the streams. And they fail in the 'mixing' which is why they trained someone up but he is in the preserved section and nowt to do with the new routes.
And SPG locos show how bad recording cannot be recovered by any magic. DTG themselves mentioned they need NEW recordings in order to fix it... which reminds me... we have not heard about this fix for a long long time... hopefully, it has not been swept under the rag.
Oi! People! I started this thread to say well done to DTG and it's turned into a slinging match and moaning about poor sounds! I mean this in the kindest possible way, but bugger off and start your own bloody thread! Lol. And also, Solicitr, I'm a live sound engineer on weekends, and sh*t in = sh*t out, but I've also heard a great band sound crap due to a poor engineer, so it's a team effort. You need BOTH as Matt said. Anyway, please let's end the moaning. If you want to have a moan, do it somewhere else. Cheers!
