Chessie System Pack & Timetables For Sand Patch Grade

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Blacknred81, Dec 23, 2020.

  1. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    So, with GWE getting a 1970's themed BR Blue pack in the future, why not also expand that to other routes as well? I think a retro pack on Sand Patch Grade during the Chessie Era would be a good one.
    [​IMG]
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    [​IMG]

    For locomotive power, I think the following 2 locos could be the main power, with each reporting mark (BO,CO and WM) being available.

    GP40-2 (B&O 218, C&O 95, WM 35)
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    SD40 (B&O 16, C&O 79, WM 24)/ SD40-2 (B&O 21)
    [​IMG]
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    Some new rolling stock could also be added to the pack to make the route more period accurate, a few examples include....

    Open Auto Racks
    [​IMG]

    86ft Auto Parts Boxcars
    [​IMG]

    89ft Flat Cars for TOFC service
    [​IMG]

    Some Chessie Cabooses can also be added for use.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    I'm not too versed in East Coast Railroads, so if someone else has some better loco or rolling stock suggestions for the Chessie, feel free to suggest them.
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2020
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  2. JGRudnick

    JGRudnick Well-Known Member

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    I love this suggestion!!
    I would totally buy this (assuming the content is better than wat we got with the Dash-8). This would be the perfect way to reintroduce the GP40-2 back into the game. The SD40 can also be used and the SD50 would fit in perfectly here. A b30-7 would also be nice.
    Of course all the locos have to be in the Chessie System scheme with the C&O, B&O, and WM reporting marks. (Except the B30-7 as I can't find any owned by WM or B&O)
     
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  3. Challenger3985

    Challenger3985 Well-Known Member

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    That's because C&O was the only one that owns these Dash 7s. Along with some U-Boats like the U25Bs and U30Bs & Cs.
     
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  4. jedi247

    jedi247 Well-Known Member

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    U-Boats and Dash-7s would be great. A Chessie GP40-2 should be included. I like the SD50 idea as well.
     
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  5. aarontheloner

    aarontheloner Active Member

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    I'd dig this.
     
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  6. migmadmarine

    migmadmarine Member

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    I'd be game, always liked Chessie's paintscheme as a kid. And maybe they could have a couple patch-painted old Chessie units appear in the modern route too?
     
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  7. aarontheloner

    aarontheloner Active Member

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    How common are patch painted Chessie units at this point anyway?
     
  8. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    None, CSX has no patched Chessie units on their roster, and I don't know when the last one was repainted.
     
  9. aarontheloner

    aarontheloner Active Member

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    Figured as much. Don't remember seeing any since I was a kid.
     
  10. migmadmarine

    migmadmarine Member

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    round when did they finish the repaints?
     
  11. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    Before 2012
    20201231_151048.jpg
     
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  12. Disintegration7

    Disintegration7 Well-Known Member

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    Fantastic idea. Would def buy this.
     
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  13. steammaster4449

    steammaster4449 Well-Known Member

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    If this was to come out, I'd certainly buy it.
     
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  14. JGRudnick

    JGRudnick Well-Known Member

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    There are no patched units remaining on CSX. All units are in YN2, YN3, or YN3b paint.
     
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  15. fizpix

    fizpix Well-Known Member

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    Along with that what about B&O units they ran through there I have a map from about 1974 of Conrail if you look at sand patch you can see B&O ran through there ( I was going to make a thread for the GP9 but this will work I just want to make the B&O GP9 (I'm probably incorrect on the locomotive ) on the potomac eagle scenic railroad)
     
  16. Challenger3985

    Challenger3985 Well-Known Member

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    You do know B&O merged into Chessie (from 1972) right? And between both B&O and C&O (Plus WM), they have a lot of EMD models used and operated when merged (hence the respected reporting marks on the Cab sides). And the Chessie colors looks very colorful on Sandpatch back in the days. So, it's a nice fit for a proposal like this one for this route.
    But if you want something with the B&O Blues, then you'll have to look for a much more older era like the 1960s or such. Which is funny as C&O did the same freight blue livery as B&O did.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2021
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  17. JGRudnick

    JGRudnick Well-Known Member

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    I believe that is because they had already merged, just not officially. Or something like the UP & MP or SP & SSW or SOU & S&A.
     
  18. aarontheloner

    aarontheloner Active Member

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    You know, well there ain't any locomotives left in Chessie paint, still see cars in it. Would be cool to have some heavily faded Chessie (and Conrail for that matter) cars.
     
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  19. fizpix

    fizpix Well-Known Member

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    I still want b&o as well with old timetables since it would be cool to see trains before chessie system
     
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  20. Challenger3985

    Challenger3985 Well-Known Member

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    Or the Kodachrome from SP & SF. Now that was an interesting livery before the merger was denied. But whether it was experimental or not, still surprising to see both B&O and C&O using the same livery for their Geeps and SDs before Chessie was made.
     
  21. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    I’m not 100% sure a kitten would sleep with any of those trains passing close by (I’ve just been reading about the logo) but I do like the look of this suggestion.
     
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  22. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    IMO, unless there was a way to also reactivate the Western Maryland line on the route (With AI trains as scenery) I wouldn't want to go that far back. Because it would be nice to see the WM trains on the Salisbury Viaduct as you pass underneath on the B&O Line.
    31186062561_13a7fa13f2_k.jpg
     
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  23. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    Compared to Diesel Legends this offers repaint of all locos, cabeese and some new freight cars, which is great. But I think they wouldn't make any brand new models for this, so this becomes viable later on with more freight cars already made they can simply repaint. That being said at that point it will offer way more value than DL and I would be happy to throw 22 dollars at it.
     
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  24. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    "As of 2012 not a single unit of Chessie, Seaboard or Conrail heritage exists in their former paintscheme."

    Well, mostly. Look at this video, taken just in the last couple of months: there are a half-dozen or so locos still in Conrail light blue overall, but CSX logos (for example at 0:52):



    In general, though, it wouldn't do to have locos in fallen flag liveries working side by side with units in CSX YN3b (adopted 2011). YN2, sure: that began in 1990, just four years after the merger (in fact, the second photo in the OP has Chessie and CSX-painted units in the same train).

    Whether to include even older liveries (B&O, C&O, SCL etc) depends on the date setting. There were many in the late 80s, because neither Chessie nor Family Lines/Seaboard System had got around to repainting all of their rolling stock by then (many freight locomotives go a lot longer than 15 years between paintings). This website includes indexed photos of nearly every locomotive CSX has ever owned, in every livery they ever wore with CSXT reporting marks.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2021
  25. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    If you want to start a bar fight among model railroaders, take a position on whether B&O Royal Blue and C&O Enchantment Blue were the same color or not!

    Background: Both railroads used dark blue with yellow markings, and at least by name they were different colors. C&O bought the B&O effective 31 December 1962. But they were not merged; they were separate railroads under common ownership (this was perfectly normal; the Atlantic Coast Line had owned the Louisville & Nashville since 1903!). My own view is that prior to 1962 they were different (but very, very similar); afterwards I just can't see the combined purchasing and maintenance departments buying and maintaining separate stocks of nearly-identical shades of blue. But then factor in the varaiability of paint dye lots in the 60s, and the effects of sun and weather and dirt, and you wind up with variations of shade much bigger than whatever the original nominal difference had been.

    C&O (via B&O) bought the Western Maryland in 1968. In 1971 the C&O was reorganized, creating a holding company, Chessie System, which owned the three operators, all of which would now wear a common Chessie livery. But the railroads remained separate (hence the C&O, B&O or WM reporting marks on Chessie locos), until the early 80s when, in preparation for the planned CSX merger, Chessie absorbed its subsidiary railroads.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2021
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  26. Challenger3985

    Challenger3985 Well-Known Member

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    Not to be negative, but if it was a bar fight these words would have a little more punch in them (which I ain't starting anything either). And I know there are two different shades of blue between BO and CO liveries. I ain't dumb.
     
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  27. JGRudnick

    JGRudnick Well-Known Member

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    Yep, the CSX family history is an interesting one, XD.
     
  28. JGRudnick

    JGRudnick Well-Known Member

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    That is a pure CSX SD70MAC. Many of the engines were painted in a light blue and gold colors. Over time, the blue faded quite a bit making it look like Conrail blue. The exact loco you mention is SD70MAC 4725. Here is a picture of 4725 in 2009[​IMG]

    That data is correct. No locomotives on CSX's roster are in any predecessor paint scheme as of 2012
     
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  29. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Hmmmm, wonder why it faded so badly. New paint supplier/formulation?
     
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  30. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Conceded. However, I did spot one SD-40 still in old pre-YN2 CSX Stripe.
     
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  31. JGRudnick

    JGRudnick Well-Known Member

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    Yep, I did see that one.

    I don't know why EMD painted the units in slightly different colors. Eventually EMD did paint them in more accurate CSX colors.
     
  32. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    GE also did something odd, with the AC6000CWs for CSX: They were in normal YN2, except that the CSX side logos were yellow outlined in blue, and the cab numbers got double lightning bolts instead of the usual AC loco single.
     
  33. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    So much power they needed double lightning bolts.
     
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  34. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    ...or they represented the arcing during their frequent breakdowns!

    The brute force race in the 90s that produced 6000 horsepower locos didn't go all that well, really; most of them have either been retired or downrated to 4000-odd. Most RR realized that while two SD40-2s produced 6000 horsepower, an AC6000 or SD90MAC in the shop produced none at all.
     
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  35. mariner86

    mariner86 Active Member

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    I'd definitely get this if they produced it, It would be cool to bring in the Chessie Steam Special too once they do steam locomotives!! I like the idea of the SD50 they were used on this route extensively as helpers all the way through and for many years with CSX as well.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2021
  36. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    However, before that happens we are likely instead to see a timetable/scenario pack for existing Sand Patch CSX rolling stock. Rural routes like Clinchfield don't look so obviously dated as the GWML!
     
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  37. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    Fantastic idea!
     
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  38. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    The Clinchfield was never Chessie territory. It belonged to the Seaboard group and came into CSX that way, so a late-70s/early80s pack would mean Family Lines livery
     
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  39. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    But we are not talking about CRR :)
     
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  40. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Whoops, my bad
     
  41. jedi247

    jedi247 Well-Known Member

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    The Chessie and B&O RR loco DLCs are great suggestions. Perhaps we could also see other DLC loco packs that would give us older locos. An SP pack for the Peninsula Corridor is one idea. The pack could be set in the 1950s-60s and include an SD7 or SD9, FM Trainmaster, NW-2, FP7A/F7B, and GP7/GP9.
     
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  42. JGRudnick

    JGRudnick Well-Known Member

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    This was a decision made by CSX, not GE. CSX wanted their new, powerful locomotives to stand out from the rest of the locomotive fleet.

    The AC6000CWs had so much horsepower, that it could not produce sufficient traction to start long trains on any sort of steep grade. CSX assigned them to fast intermodal and other fast trains across their system, but never on coal trains as they were designed (not until they were derated to 4400hp)
    UP and CSX, the only buyers of the AC6000CWs, did derate them to 4400 horsepower, essentially making them AC4400CWs. But do to them being built slightly differently, they had slightly higher maintenance costs compared to the AC4400CWs. CSX did not find any reason to keep the AC6000CWs (now called AC44/60CWs) and sold them. UP continues to run their AC44/60CWs today (I actually saw one a couple weeks ago).

    7 of CSX's AC44/60CWs were bought by the Western New York & Pennsylvania Railroad to replace their 6-axle Alco/MLW locos, and were painted in a fabulous black and yellow paint scheme.
     
  43. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    UP has always been mad for horsepower, from the Big Boys to the gas turbines to the DDA40X. I'm kind of surprised they de-rated their 6000s.
     
  44. JGRudnick

    JGRudnick Well-Known Member

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    The 6000hp powerplant was very unreliable and had much higher fuel costs. The 4400hp AC4400CW does a much better job at pulling long heavy trains.
     
  45. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Did a little poking about:

    The first 112 "AC6000s" delivered to UP actually had the 7FDL engine of the 4400; these were called by UP "C6044ACs". Of the rest, delivered with the new engine and 6000hp, they were eventually either sold, or were sent back to GE for rebuilding as 6044s. UP did NOT like the 7HDL engine!

    CSX replaced the engines in three of theirs with 7FDLs; all the rest they sold to Progress Rail. Almost all of those have had their engines replaced with either 7FDLs or GEVOs (4600hp). It seems nobody liked the 7HDL!

    But the story was pretty similar on the EMD side- the first 400-odd SD90MACs were actually SD9043s, that is, they had the SD70's old reliable 710 engine- and of those sold with the 265H, just about every one has been sold or traded in, or re-engined with a 710. Again, the 6000hp engine was a bust, mostly because of reliability and fuel consumption.
     
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  46. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    & about ecology too
     
  47. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    EPA's tiered emission standards didn't apply to existing locomotives, just new ones.
     
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  48. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    This clip from Pentrex's Ultimate Tehachapi is a good example why the AC6000CWs weren't reliable.... Loosing all that horsepower on a grade I would assume is not fun....
     
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  49. steammaster4449

    steammaster4449 Well-Known Member

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    As nice as it would be to see that kinda pack, it'd have to be a new route because the current 4th and King street station in San Fran was built in the mid seventies after SP sadly demolished their much better looking and historically significant Third and Townsend depot, so a pack of older rolling stock for Peninsula Corridor is limited to only going back to around 74 - 76, I think, without having to make a new route with Third and Townsend in it. But, that's not the topic of this thread, so that's where I'm gonna leave it at.
     
  50. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Judge for yourselves: same or different? :cool:

    IMG_1001.JPEG
     

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