Train Sim World 2 - Sdk, Modding Tools & North American Routes

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by TD Trader, Mar 20, 2021.

Tags:
?
  1. Within the next 1-3 months

    1.6%
  2. Within the next 4-5 months

    4.0%
  3. Probably Never... (knowing DTG)

    94.4%
  1. TD Trader

    TD Trader New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2019
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    18
    I have been following DTG for several years now, but it seems like 99% of its content is limited to Europe and European locomotives and European routes (with very little updated TSW2 content created for North America).

    North American routes seem to be such low priority and are never updated and not even available for the latest TSW2.

    I would like to see more North American railroads (BNSF, Union Pacific, Northern Suffolk, Amtrak, Metra, CTA, etc) along with modern routes like Chicago’s CTA “L” and Chicago’s subway system as well as Chicago’s Metra lines and Chicago’s BNSF rails.

    I have been waiting for 4-5 years already for an “TSW SDK” that would allow content creators to create maps, routes, cities and add-on content, similar to Squad, Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020 or DCS, Farming Simulator, or any other modern sim game that allows modders to create and add content.

    Unfortunately it seems like DTG games and community modding are “dead in the water” (for the past several years) and DTG doesn’t seem to release SDKs or public modding tools to allow community content creators or users to create new locomotives, new liveries or new maps/cities (like the free community content that you see being created for MS Flight Simulator 2020 by the user community).

    I had hoped that modding tools and SDKs for TSW and TSW 2 would get released (as soon as the game was released) so we could have a community modders and community developer section that modders and developers can post their created content for TSW 2 series game, but I haven’t been able to find anything during the past 4-5 years about TSW modding tools or game mods or community created maps or content and it seems like during the past 7-8 years that DTG doesn’t ever support the public modding community.

    I thought about purchasing TSW2, but without a TSW 2 SDK and without TSW 2 modding tools, it seems like a very “dead end” game, with very little interesting content and there is very little North American content, no Chicago North American routes and no North American locomotives and no North American cities like Chicago or livery.

    The two largest railroads in North America are #1 BNSF, #2 Union Pacific. The largest public transit is Amtrak. Chicago Metra and Chicago CTA are some of the largest transit systems and it seems odd that there is ZERO content being created for Chicago.

    There is no BNSF, no Union Pacific, no Norfolk Southern. There is no Amtrak, no Metra, and no Chicago CTA “EL” subway or elevated lines. Nothing!

    I would like to see more Chicago content created, but DTG doesn’t seem to support the United States, or the modding community or Community modding developers (modders) and DTG seems to move at a snails pace when it comes to adding or creating content (European content only) and DTG doesn’t seem to create anything for the United States or North America and it seems impossible to find any content for Chicago’s Metra or Chicago’s Amtrak or Chicago’s BNSF Rail lines, locomotives, liveries and train routes.

    I have been waiting patiently for the past 4-8 years and we still don’t seem to have a public TSW 2 SDK or any community created content or Community Modder developer forums created for public community Modders, community developers and there doesn’t seem to be any publicly downloadable tutorials, SDKs or modder tools or public info or public SDKs that we can download to create new routes, create new maps and create new community content that we can make available as third party content?

    Similar to how Squad game modders can create maps, vehicles or game maps for the Unreal Engine 4 game “Squad”. Squad Editor (Community SDK) available for Unreal Engine 4 here:
    https://squad.gamepedia.com/Squad_SDK

    I was hoping that we would see a Train Sim World 2 SDK available (that is kept up to date) with new releases and updates. So that the TSW 2 Community can download the TSW2 SDK and begin creating new maps and new routes, as well as new locomotives and liveries for TSW 2.

    Most other simulator games have modder community aircraft or airports or game content for MS Flight Simulator 2020 (aircraft and airports) or community created maps, vehicles and farming equipment content for Farming Simulator 2019 that are created by community modders and users and made available for download on third party sites, and even GTA V has a ton of online mods and community created content and mods available.

    It seems like in the past 7-8 years, there are ZERO modding tools or SDKs from DoveTail Games and most DoveTail Games “die off” and remain stagnant and no Modder SDKs are publicly released and there doesn’t seem to be ANY third party community content available for any of the TSW series games.

    Are there any plans to change this? When will we see TSW2 or TSW3 modding tools and SDKs publicly available (and constantly updated) so that third party community developers can begin creating content for the Train Sim World 2 and Train Sim World 3 games?

    The games are extremely boring and not even worth the money when there is no community content and no community modding tools or SDKs or community mods available to make the game content interesting.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2021
    • Like Like x 2
  2. TD Trader

    TD Trader New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2019
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    18
    We need a “Train Sim 2 Editor SDK” available online in the Epic Games store (similar to the “Squad Editor”) that game modders and community members can download and begin creating their own maps, locomotives, cities, railroad routes and game content and community maps.

    Something identical to this here:
    https://www.epicgames.com/store/en-US/p/squad

    We need a “Train Sim 2 Editor” (SDK) for Unreal Engine 4 made available in the Epic Games Store (for free) so that content creators can use the SDK Editor to create maps, and train routes for Train Sim World 2! We need community modding tools and we need a continuously updated “Train Sim World 2 Editor” that is available on the Epic Games Store for game modders and community developers and game modders so we can create our own maps, train routes , cities and community created railways.

    We need a public “Train Sim World 2 Editor SDK” identical to this here:
    https://www.epicgames.com/store/en-US/p/squad
     
  3. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2020
    Messages:
    11,729
    Likes Received:
    17,939

    Re-e-ee-ally.....
     
    • Like Like x 15
  4. TD Trader

    TD Trader New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2019
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    18
    I apologize, I didn’t see it mentioned on the advertisement that I saw for TSW2, but it does seem to have a mention/video here on Steam:
    https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/1282590/view/2518024301158740431

    I guess that is good enough for me to spend $15 on TSW2!

    I was hoping that Sand Patch Grade would be reworked and included with TSW2! (It seems that this was done in TSW2).

    Although I would still love to see a “TSW2 Editor SDK” added to Epic Games store that we can use for creating train routes & maps (and third party community created content). The TSW2 SDK/Editor is by far the biggest feature that I have been waiting on. I do wish there was a public Trello Roadmap so we could see what features are coming and the scheduled timeline for features / releases.

    Thank-you!
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2021
  5. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2019
    Messages:
    5,567
    Likes Received:
    11,829
    BNSF will not come to TSW2, period, due to licensing issues, same thing with Metra, as Metra never gave DTG a license for TS21 either.

    Union Pacific is getting a 3rd Party Route from Skyhook Games, though it is only the Cane Creek Branch Line (And we still don't know much about it aside from the locos)

    US freight routes are generally disliked by the majority of the users on this forum, as based on comments and poll choices (Usually labeled as "Boring and Slow"), though the new Clinchfield Route seems to have alot of positive reactions to it so far from its previews.

    Due to the use of the Unreal Engine for the game, the editor for it will never be publicly released due to the need to have access to the Unreal SDK, which is something that DTG cant control, and something Epic will not allow (Which is why we don't have very many 3rd Party Developers either)
     
    • Like Like x 2
  6. JetWash

    JetWash Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2021
    Messages:
    2,366
    Likes Received:
    8,768
    Why do people keep asking this question?

    DTG have been as clear as can be...there will never be a publicly available editor for TSW. Ever.

    I don’t know what else they can say to get that message across, because for some reason it isn’t landing with some people.
     
    • Like Like x 9
  7. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2019
    Messages:
    5,567
    Likes Received:
    11,829
    Before making this posts today, the OP's last posts were on January 2019, so they may not of been on the forum between those times. (And I dobut they would search thru the forums looking for answers)
     
    • Like Like x 2
  8. TD Trader

    TD Trader New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2019
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    18
    ANY game created with Unreal Engine, can have a SDK available (via Epic Game Store for FREE). ANY game.

    It is true that DTC can't re-distribute the Epic Games / Unreal Engine 4 Editor, and developers would need to create an Epic Games account, accept the Epic Games EULA, and then download the Epic Games Launcher, and then download the "Train Sim World Editor" SDK directly from the Epic Games Store (for free), but yes... that is how modding SDK's are LEGALLY distributed (because users must accept the Epic Games EULA before using the Unreal Engine 4 Editor).

    If you reference my first post, you will see that SQUAD is a game created using Unreal Engine 4. The developers of SQUAD, posted the instructions on how to download the Epic Games Launcher (directly from Epic Games Store) and also how to download their Squad SDK (Editor) directly on the Epic Games Store / Marketplace (for free) so that ANY developer can make mods / maps for SQUAD.

    The decision to make an editor publicly available (via Epic Games store/marketplace) for FREE is up to DTG. It's NOT hard to do, and any game developer can do it. (As I have pointed out, Offworld Industries the game developer for Squad has done it very easily, and there is no reason that DTG can't do the same). But DTG must do it correctly, and developers would need to download the Epic Games Launcher (directly from Epic Games) and then DTG can release a "Train Sim Editor" (SDK) via the Epic Games Store (For free) that modders can use for modding.

    ANYONE can download Unreal Engine (for FREE) directly from Epic Games (after accepting the Epic Games EULA) and ANYONE can download the Unreal SDK (for FREE) directly from Epic Games (after accepting the Epic Games EULA). SO there is absolutely no reason NOT to release an Editor SDK for Train Sim World 2.

    There are several EASY ways to release an SDK.

    The number one easiest way is:

    1) Create an Unreal Engine Developer's fork on Github
    2) Delete everything that's in it
    3) Place compiled mod sdk there
    4) Modders accept the Epic Games EULA to access it, as required

    Problem solved. This is how 99% of developers release their SDKs (as per Unreal Engine documentation).

    Option two is simply to release an Editor SDK on the Epic Games Store (see here for an example). The developers just create the Editor SDK and it can be "sold for FREE" on the Epic Games Store, so that users can install the Epic Games Launcher and then download the Editor SDK for free (from the Epic Games Store). The Epic Games Unreal Engine EULA specifically allows Unreal Engine 4 Game SDK's to be distributed / re-distributed via GitHub fork or Epic Games Store (only) as long as developers accept the Epic Games EULA.

    If you look at the game "SQUAD" which is created using Unreal Engine 4, they have posted their SDK directly on the Epic Games Store (for free) and anyone can download their Editor SDK and create maps for the SQUAD game (which is created using Unreal Engine).

    The game Squad is created using Unreal Engine 4 (just like TSW and TSW 2) and this is an example of how to create an SDK:
    Squad SDK - Official Squad Wiki (gamepedia.com)

    We need a public “Train Sim World 2 Editor SDK” identical to this here:
    https://www.epicgames.com/store/en-US/p/squad

    The SDK Editor must be hosted on the Epic Games Store (and can't be hosted on DTG's servers, and must be available through the Epic Games Store / Marketplace).

    But game modding SDKs are quite common, and it's not hard to do. There is absolutely no reason that DTG can't just post a modding SDK to the Epic Games Store for users to download (from the Epic Games Store/Launcher) and then just create a very simple Wiki page like this one here (explaining how to download and install the Epic Games Launcher, and then how to download the Editor SDK).

    See here:
    Squad SDK - Official Squad Wiki (gamepedia.com)

    And see here:
    https://www.epicgames.com/store/en-US/p/squad

    And from what I understood, a TSW 2 Livery Editor and TSW 2 Scenario Editor were to be released as per here:

    TSW 2 - Scenario Editor:
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2021
    • Like Like x 2
  9. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2018
    Messages:
    10,832
    Likes Received:
    10,482
    And this can be done for free on all platforms? If not then that goes against what DTG decided a few years back for their game
    What you can do on one platform should be replicable on another.
    And the video you posted isn't for TSW2, even says so in the title
     
  10. TD Trader

    TD Trader New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2019
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    18
    Epic Games EULA makes it VERY CLEAR that anyone using Unreal Engine can release modding SDKs, but they must accept the Epic Games EULA, and must be hosted on the Epic Games Store (or via GitHub).

    See here:

    Any public Distribution (i.e., intended for Engine Licensees generally) which includes Engine Tools (including as modified by you under the License) must take place either through the Marketplace (e.g., for distributing a Product’s modding tool or editor to end users) or through a fork of Epic’s GitHub UnrealEngine Network (e.g., for distributing source code).


    See here:
    EULA - Unreal Engine
     
  11. 59321747

    59321747 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2020
    Messages:
    565
    Likes Received:
    320
    What is going on here? Is there no news about the editor that the player intends to get, since players cannot work on TWS, why are there so few third-party studios?
     
  12. davejc64

    davejc64 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2017
    Messages:
    332
    Likes Received:
    513
    But DTG have said they don't intend to release a publicly available editor/SDK for TSW, so how easy it is or not doesn't really matter.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  13. zawal.belili

    zawal.belili Guest

    I think the editor is too complex and only interests 30 or 50 guys at best.
    Personally, I prefer that there is no "free" editor on TSW2, I don't want to relive what is happening on TS with the many mods and problems that go with it.
    I prefer a "closed" game that works minimally than an open game full of gimmicks that will only serve to create more problems.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  14. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2018
    Messages:
    2,820
    Likes Received:
    3,381
    Personally I'd prefer they just worked on making a proper scenario editor, because that will be a lot more useful to most players (myself included - I can't maintain interest in Train Simulator routebuilding for more than a day) and will probably be easier to develop.
     
    • Like Like x 6
  15. Tigert1966

    Tigert1966 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2020
    Messages:
    1,598
    Likes Received:
    2,648
    Same here. I tried the Scenario editor in TSW2. There is not a lot you can do with it so I abandoned it again. It‘s fun for a bit with off the rails mode, but really very simple. In TS2021 however, I can happily sit for hours making things up. I’m eagerly awaiting the next iteration, but I’m still not expecting it to get anywhere close to what there is in TS2021.

    There have been respected developers on this forum stating how difficult it is to develop for TSW2. So I‘m happy to leave the development to the experts and it seems 3rd parties can get the tools as evidenced by Rivet, Skyhook and TSG. Respect to the Modders though, while I don‘t use them myself, I have seen some of the stuff that they‘ve done and it‘s pretty good.
     
  16. RailRoadEngineer

    RailRoadEngineer Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2021
    Messages:
    61
    Likes Received:
    100
    OP wait for SimRail SDK then
    XD
    Or try Trainz :p
     
  17. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2019
    Messages:
    6,475
    Likes Received:
    17,337
    The situation is much more complicated than ‘it can be done’. You don’t need to know the ins and outs of it to accept that it isn’t going to happen. What other games have is largely irrelevant to TSW having an editor. Your arguments for how easy it is are not based on all the facts. None of us have all the facts but there has been a clear indication from DTG that it isn’t going to happen because of all the complexities in their case. There are multiple layers of licensing, legal and security reasons why TSW2 cannot easily have a public editor and DTG have decided that only official partners can have access to the tools for these reasons. To get this access you need to agree to extra terms and conditions, not only Epic’s EULA but others, and you have to be serious about making content that can then be made commercially available and published through DTG.

    All serious content makers can contact DTG for a conversation on becoming a 3rd party developer.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  18. JGRudnick

    JGRudnick Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2019
    Messages:
    1,744
    Likes Received:
    3,129
    Sand Patch Grade is one of three routes that come with TSW2
     
  19. Llewelyn

    Llewelyn New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2021
    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    9
    DTG's primary business model is to create paid DLC. That's the main reason they won't release a public SDK or modding tools.
    It's a narrow point of view. I also have SCS software's American Truck Simulator, which does have open modding and they do make some modding tools available and there's Steam Workshop support. There's a wide selection of both free and paid mods, some bad, some excellent, as you'd expect. SCS make their money from selling the game and they release paid DLC in the form of new states (which would be like a new route in DTG-land). Seems to be working for them - and they had the nouse to build their own game engine specifically for a driving game, which I have to say works better than TSW2 on Unreal - Unreal isn't primarily for this kind of game. That SCS engine is still being refined, recently they did a complete overhaul of the lighting system, making it much more true to life.

    I don't see the wide availability of mods hurting SCS. They've been expanding and taking on new staff to improve the speed at which they can put out updates. DTG's view seems foolishly blinkered. Allow people to make mods, more people play the game and those people will also no doubt buy the DLC...
     
    • Like Like x 3
  20. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2018
    Messages:
    10,832
    Likes Received:
    10,482
    DTG have stated many times that they agree. If they could allow people to make mods and repaints that would be within the terms of DTG's agreements with the various IP holders that they have licensed then they might be able to do so.
    Maybe the IP holders of train companies are more stringent than the IP holders of truck companies, and I would imagine there's very little IP in trailers anyway...
    Unfortunately when you're dealing with people like DB, BNSF, Virgin, SNCF etc they take their assets very very seriously

    The other point to remember is that DTG want the same experience on all formats, so any "official mods" would have to work via Steam and Epic on PC, and via the PS Store and Xbox store on those platforms, whilst still being within the licensing as above.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  21. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2020
    Messages:
    2,053
    Likes Received:
    2,671
    You prefer a closed game so that many other people cannot enjoy mods? No-one is forcing you to use mods, you know that right?


    So all the routes, mods ETC were not against DTG's agreement in TS1? How does that work then? You know mods already exist for TSW2 yeah and that mods for BNSF and others are available, has their been any action taken over them I wonder?

    I wouldn't take everything that DTG say as gospel. If you want to look at complicated Licences then look at PES (and now FIFA) and they do a grand job, for PC and PS anyway and there are very few organisations that are more protective of their licences than UEFA, FIFA all the way down to individual clubs. I don't buy this 'it has to work on all systems either' Aren't DTG already doing stuff just for the next generation of consoles. Plus we have the RailDriver and TrackIR just for the PC no?

    I believe DTG think they will make more money in a 'closed shop' than if they made an editor available, and its their company to do so as they wish. You may love mods or hate them, personally I love them as it gives the player choice, more routes. If you hate mods then do not use them.

    Saying that I highly doubt we will get an editor soon which is a shame but I hope that towards the end of life for TSW2 we might get one
     
    • Like Like x 1
  22. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2018
    Messages:
    2,820
    Likes Received:
    3,381
    I think they want to avoid the situation where a single scenario on Train Simulator has requirements in excess of several hundred Pounds, as do I...
     
    • Like Like x 1
  23. Mich

    Mich Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2020
    Messages:
    1,036
    Likes Received:
    1,342
    If DTG really wanted to make scenarios and other content more accessible why on Earth did they allow locos to only be useable of you only own a certain route? In TS Classic if you own a loco you can use any loco you want on any route you want. So if you're interested in scenarios for a different route or just want to free roam it you don't need to buy the route it's made for. Yet in TSW you NEED to own the route they're built for, so if you want to use the DB BR 155 on a route you own but don't own Ruhr-Sieg Nord then you're out of luck, can't free roam, can't play with it on any other routes that it's used in, this wasn't a problem in TS Classic.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  24. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2018
    Messages:
    2,820
    Likes Received:
    3,381
    This is an issue with TSW (although is present in TS as well), but paying an extra £24.99 for Ruhr Sieg Nord is far better than £200 of requirements to drive from London Bridge to Crystal Palace...
     
    • Like Like x 1
  25. Mich

    Mich Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2020
    Messages:
    1,036
    Likes Received:
    1,342
    And it's still worse than what you have in TS Classic, where standard locomotives don't need the route it's made for to function.

    You think DTG are doing what they are to stop massive asset requirements. If that's the case then why require do they now require a base route for a loco? That CSX MP15 mod was able to make the MP15 function fine with needing Peninsula, why can two modders do that yet DTG can't? And for that matter why have routes like Main-Spessart Bahn or Köln-Aachen require multiple full routes to use everything possible on the route? My point is if DTG were really closing off everything to "help" consumer than why have they made moves which go against this thought process?
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2021
    • Like Like x 1
  26. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2018
    Messages:
    10,832
    Likes Received:
    10,482
    You need to review the game's history... DTG didn't MAKE TSX, they took it over from another company who took it from Microsoft... So it's likely the editor precedes them and therefore "it was already out there" before DTG started getting the licenses.

    Ah, the old footballer debate... unfortunately both those companies gain licenses either from the respective league or from the players council. Several players have themselves stated they would sue, but the council prevents them

    Well that blows out Armstrong Powerhouse's entire ecosystem... DTG have said several times (backed up by other devs) that mods and add ons make DTG more money, not less... Look at the latest 3rd party route to be released... ATS chat Moss, to run the route at all you need 2 routes from DTG, and the scenarios need a couple of loco DLC (one from another route, so that's three route DLC really)
    Personally I've never seen a mod I consider necessary for my enjoyment, and a couple that proclaim to be "more realistic" when they've left as much out as DTG do... Of course because people think modders are doing them a favour nobody calls them out on it.

    Oh you can get the editor... Sign up to the licensing code, sign up to the distribution agreement and then get the license legally from DTG. That's known
     
    • Like Like x 2
  27. davidh0501

    davidh0501 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2020
    Messages:
    1,134
    Likes Received:
    1,638
    What would be useful if a member of DTG reiterated the main reasons why, as many people seem to have forgotten.
    At least it would give us another six months before it starts up again.
     
  28. RailRoadEngineer

    RailRoadEngineer Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2021
    Messages:
    61
    Likes Received:
    100
    So any chance now for an editor?
    Game have arrived on EGS
     
  29. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2020
    Messages:
    2,053
    Likes Received:
    2,671
    It doesn't matter who owned TS1 first or not, the fact still remains mods are still produced for TS1 and guess what? DTG are still here.
    You actually think that football licences are just given out by the league and players? lol. It is far more complicated and you will find it is UEFA and FIFA that have the last say. Then you have boot manufacturers and ball manufacturers the lists go on and on and you have UEFA and FIFA as two of the most corrupt bodies going, FIFA certainly,

    Then you have situations where EA will get the licence for a league and everything in it only for a team in that league to sign a licence with PES so they have to be taken out. The point being Licences in PES and FIFA and far more complicated than what DTG have to endure and yet PES can offer a full editor without the risk of being sued by companies much more powerful than individual train bodies.

    Then you talk about AP and say you are now in favour of Mods? I think AP are really good and don't mind paying for their stuff either. In fact I don't mind paying for mods but I also think people should be able to create free ones too. And then you said you haven't found a mod that enhances your enjoyment? WTF? Either you're deliberately misleading or you haven't looked. In my case I bought the diesel legends pack ONLY because there were mods to improve the pack. Driving 70's trains on a track with overhead cables is a farce so I got a mod that removed them. Then station mods, signs, track mods, ballast and the important livery mod. It increased enjoyment to me 100% and wouldn't have gone near it without them.

    There are lots of mods for all different scenario's that enhance the game no end. IMO the game would be transformed if they had tools to go deeper.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  30. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2020
    Messages:
    11,729
    Likes Received:
    17,939
    EA is a multibillion-dollar corporation with hundreds of lawyers on staff. Not exactly comparable.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  31. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2020
    Messages:
    2,053
    Likes Received:
    2,671
    My comparison is with Konami and PES really who are much smaller.
     
  32. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2018
    Messages:
    2,820
    Likes Received:
    3,381
    An extra £24.99 is far less than an extra £300. I find it quite interesting that the requirements for this, to you, are far better than this.
    No, but what they're doing certainly helps.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  33. Mich

    Mich Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2020
    Messages:
    1,036
    Likes Received:
    1,342
    I fail to see how showing a standalone engine from Armstrong goes against my point, I would've at least picked a enhancement pack if I were to counter my own post. And I personally do not don't like what Armstrong do with their scenarios, but it's also not going against my point. Fact is both this pack from Armstrong and most DTG Steam Store loco add-ons don't require the scenarios to function, I can find other uses for them even if I don't have the scenarios, not the case in TSW.
    Not if you're someone who only uses Steam, it's a far worse experience if you want to buy things piecemeal. If I see a engine I like but it's for a route I can't get or don't want I can just buy the engine and use it elsewhere in TS Classic, can't do that in TSW. Just because it stops a few places from making utterly crazy scenario requirements hardly makes it a straight up improvement.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  34. zefreak

    zefreak Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2021
    Messages:
    110
    Likes Received:
    196
    I certainly hope that the reason we can't have proper mod support is because of DTG's desire for parity with consoles. PC games have flourished because of modding communities, especially simulators. Can you imagine Assetto Corsa without mod support (or TS Classic for that matter)? TSW will always be a shadow of its potential self unless DTG can find a way to support it, and the livery editor / scenario builder and not even close.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  35. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2018
    Messages:
    10,832
    Likes Received:
    10,482
    Actually, It does matter if the editor was "out there" first or not and it's not the same in other games where they produce different games every year.
    Oh, and UEFA DON'T have the rights to a player's likeness. See several court cases about IP rights, workers rights, endentured servitude etc over industries including football, recorded music etc

    I haven't said I am for or against mods. I said your argument that "DTG's policy is because they make more money with a closed ecosystem" is nonsense and that there are several third party devs (like AP) who rely on them. Unfortunately APs practices could not work in TSW2 because they change their DLC requirements every time they bring out a new one. I own just about everything they have out up until January this year, but still don't think that policy would work within the TSW2 ecosystem

    Good for you. I am blatantly NOT you
     
  36. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2016
    Messages:
    2,488
    Likes Received:
    3,270
    Not again, this discussion. Besides the legal issues, I think creating content for TS already is hard. I think over 90% of the projects is never completed, for TSW2 creating good content is much harder if you want to deliver it at the modest quality DTG does. So, why bother that much?

    What we can do is create scenarios and liveries. It is supported, but below the quality we would like to see. Recently it is announced that there will be an update for those tools. Let's see what will happen...
    In between, for PC we discovered lots of ways to patch the game. You cannot use it on consoles, but that is because of the way consoles work. Maybe someone finds out how to install mods on consoles.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  37. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2020
    Messages:
    2,053
    Likes Received:
    2,671
    Glad we agree on something. As for the rest I think you are way off but this debate can drag on and get old very quickly so I will agree to disagree.

    Yes Rudolf I think we will have to see what happens with the scenario and livery editors I do have a feeling people will be disappointed but I hope I'm wrong.
     
  38. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2018
    Messages:
    2,820
    Likes Received:
    3,381
    Look at the requirements for the scenarios... Huge.
     
  39. Eric Fuchs

    Eric Fuchs New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2019
    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    14
    Using GTA mods online is not allowed and can be banned so there is no official way
     

Share This Page