A Question For Dtg

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by kosti.nuuja, Mar 20, 2021.

?
  1. Yes

    9 vote(s)
    14.1%
  2. No

    55 vote(s)
    85.9%
  1. kosti.nuuja

    kosti.nuuja Well-Known Member

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    Why are you still making payware content to TS20xx. IMO, TS20xx doesn't need any new DLC anymore. And players can also make content for TS20xx themselves. It has the editor, and players can also model and export objects and rolling stock into TS20xx. So, DTG should focus more in TSW2, because customers can't make their own content for it, and that's why professional developers are extremely important to make the TSW2 better.
     
  2. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    So the people who have TS2021 should lose out in getting more routes and trains because YOU want more stuff for TSW2.
    How selfish :mad:
     
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  3. dunkrez

    dunkrez Well-Known Member

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    The poll speaks for itself so far Peter - long live TS!
     
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  4. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    If you are so upset that there's not enough DLC for TSW2, and too much for TS... why not just use TS?
     
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  5. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    Well there's clearly still a market for TS stuff, so why would DTG actively give up a revenue stream and give it to competitors?
    It's like closing the Midland Mainline just so Network Rail can work more on the ECML.
     
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  6. pugilist3

    pugilist3 Active Member

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    I am happy that DTG still releases content for TS2021 and looking forward to Milepost's Seligman route soon!
     
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  7. kosti.nuuja

    kosti.nuuja Well-Known Member

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    I'm not thinking that TS20xx is a bad game, but the truth is, that TS20xx is getting old. I think that DTG is still developing for TS20xx, because they need to get money, and there is not yet enough content made for TSW2 to get enough that money.
     
  8. SJA

    SJA Active Member

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    I still don't see why it has to be one or the other. They are two separate sims aimed at somewhat different markets (some have both, and like both). You can simply do more with TSxx whereas TSW looks good, runs timetables out of the box and also covers the significant console market as well.

    Of course. There will be a business case for it. I'd be willing to bet the last few routes for TSxx developed by DTG and subcontractors (as an important point -- it's not all internal resourcing) have sold pretty well.
     
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  9. Reef

    Reef Well-Known Member

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    TSWhat2?

    Ohhh you mean walking and collecting simulator that you get to by occasionally driving a train that you painted a likeness of Spongebob on.. Got it, a.k.a kiddy train sim.
     
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  10. triznya.andras

    triznya.andras Well-Known Member

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    Me thinks the poll results so far show that this question was asked in the wrong place.
     
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  11. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    It's where he chose to ask it. (shrug)
     
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  12. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    You can have cute animals on your train too!
     
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  13. Reef

    Reef Well-Known Member

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    For Fox Sake..
     
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  14. dunkrez

    dunkrez Well-Known Member

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    I think I just died a little bit, on the inside.
     
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  15. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    It really does highlight the differences between the two sims... or rather their audiences.
     
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  16. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    Why put all their eggs in one basket?

    Most companies make more than one product regardless of what they produce.
     
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  17. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    At least some of us use the Livery Designer properly......

    But, no DTG should not dump developing content for TS21, period.
     
  18. guardupfront

    guardupfront Active Member

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    Two different worlds...
     
  19. TimeSlicedDanny

    TimeSlicedDanny Active Member

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    TSW = TrackSide Walking simulator?

    The only thing that would make sense would be if DTG stopped making content for both and put the resources into developing a proper successor to TS2021.
     
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  20. Reef

    Reef Well-Known Member

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    Now that I like, I'm stealing that....
     
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  21. inversnecky

    inversnecky Well-Known Member

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    I was searching for something and came across a thread in the TSW discussion, where they are bemoaning not enough attention from from moderators despite the fact that they’re posting all the time there, including multiple times in that one post!

    Should the TS forums be so blessed!

    I think many there have just got so used to being spoon fed and given a constant helping hand, that they wouldn’t know what to do without it. After the TS forums, where we just get on with things without constant adult supervision and guidance, there seems to be a certain neediness among some, and a tendency towards drama.

    Maybe I shouldn’t be so hasty to make judgments, but there probably is a grain of truth in what you say, pookey!

    Or it could be we give DTG so hard a time here that they are fed up with us :)
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2021
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  22. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    You do, I agree, but you do it DESPITE the editor... which is terrible. If you could import images and actually type with installable fonts it would be more ideal. It's designed for consoles, and it shows.
     
  23. Nick Y

    Nick Y Well-Known Member

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    Well, I'm gonna say this.

    Firstly, no. DTG shouldn't stop making content for TS21. Whilst there are a lot of routes to choose from for TS21, there are definitely more routes that could be done.
    Yes, TS is old tech now and has been around for many years but it's still very successful.
    I will agree that maybe they could overhaul the game in many ways but that would mean rebuilding from the ground up. Then of course, if they did update the game engine, you'd probably lose access to a lot of your routes, stock etc until it could be ported across to the newer game engine (similar to how it worked when TSW became TSW2).

    For a lot of people who don't have computers or don't have decent spec computers, consoles are the only way that they can play a train simulator of sorts in TSW titles. That's how I started and that's how I mainly play. DTG has the market there with it being the only simulation game for trains on consoles.

    As far as the livery editor goes for TSW2, it's not a bad system, but it still lacks in some ways, most notably that you are limited to 300 items and there's no way to manually input colour codes. And, as said above, it had to be designed for those of us who play TSW2 on consoles (which is quite a large amount according to some people).
    At the end of the day, it's up to the user what they want to put on their trains.
    There are a lot of talented people using the editor to recreate real life liveries as best they can.

    I personally enjoy using both TS21 and TSW. They both provide different experiences, they are completely different entities.

    As for the supposed lack of communication with DTG staff on the forums etc, I can't say that there has been any lack of communication, especially not when it comes to TSW queries or complaints.
    Sam overhauled the roadmap for TSW2 and participated in the streams (and still does). He tries to see things from both DTG's side and the consumers side.
    At the moment, one of the community team members is on leave and, as Sam has now stepped aside for his new role within DTG, a new CM has started (JD) and once he's settled into the role, maybe we will see him being more active on here.
     
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  24. Reef

    Reef Well-Known Member

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    What new role? You see we had a thread full of promises off Sam when he joined, and then he promptly dropped us to concentrate on wiping the TSW members noses..

    And whomever this JD is we'll probably see as much of him/her here as we did the last lot of failed community managers..
     
  25. maxipolo12

    maxipolo12 Well-Known Member

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    Because the poor optimization ruins the gaming experience?
    Oh wait, TSW 2 has more stuttering as TS :D
     
  26. Reef

    Reef Well-Known Member

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    Stuttering? What stuttering, I don't even get tile load stutter now since the update.
     
  27. maxipolo12

    maxipolo12 Well-Known Member

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    on fast all new routes I have stuttering, like Schnellstrecke Köln etc.
    Look at sam streams or everyone on youtube, everyone has stuttering (loading assets I suppose)
     
  28. VictorHugoVS

    VictorHugoVS Active Member

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    Train Simulator 20XX Forever. With core updates.
     
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  29. Reef

    Reef Well-Known Member

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    Not everyone,
    Yes tile load stutter was a thing but since the fastload update I haven't had any, and I play on maxed out settings with RWEnhancer Pro
     
  30. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    Train Simulator is clearly not DTG's priority, since there are so little DLCs made by them for it - and the ones they do make now are mostly crap. I doubt that support for Train Simulator will last beyond 2023, but that could be generous.
     
  31. dunkrez

    dunkrez Well-Known Member

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    I've just driven the full run from Bristol Temple Meads to Swansea with DR73106 (just given it lights, useful for the biiiiig tunnels) and I have to say, it's the smoothest run I've ever had. No noticeable stuttering.
     
  32. maxipolo12

    maxipolo12 Well-Known Member

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    I was talking about tsw ;)
     
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  33. Damon

    Damon New Member

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    Presumably they keep creating for both sims for the same reason Ford make estate versions of both the Focus and the Mondeo, rather than just consolidate efforts into one model of hatchback estate car. The products themselves are similar, but they still have different customers. The fact the TS series has the ability for external content creation will keep the community going for a long time, including people new to the world of simulation who may opt for that product over TSW on the back of the amount of stuff already available for it, and still in production.

    I think it will be a sad day for the train sim community when DTG end ongoing TS support, as only being able to have what the developer (or approved suppliers) gives you obviously limits you massively on the amount of content you will ever have. Particularly the short length of many routes to date, and not to mention how long bugs can take to fix(!). Many of the higher quality products we have are, in my personal opinion, either not DTG products or are (sometimes fairly heavily) modified versions.
     
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  34. VictorHugoVS

    VictorHugoVS Active Member

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    The day they release a workshop for Train Sim World 2, for reskins and scenarios, and a better scenario creator, maybe i can like it. But for now i stay with Train Simulator where i can drive from London Euston to Birmingham, and maybe someday, London to Liverpool or Glasgow. I have TSW2, but I play once a week while TS, all day. I understand that TS is an old game, but something can be done.
     
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  35. BeenTrain

    BeenTrain Member

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    Because TS and TSW are different games with different gameplay.
    Can't wait till TS its succesor TS2 is released, it will be awesome!
     
  36. maxipolo12

    maxipolo12 Well-Known Member

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    Successor is simrail 2021 :D
     
  37. triznya.andras

    triznya.andras Well-Known Member

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    I'll be the elephant in the room and say that TSW was supposed to be the successor but there is no good business case for it.
    It's like opening your new, fancy, national video sharing site or social network place. Can't compete with Youtube or Facebook.
    You also have to do something different. TSW was supposed to be prettier and more detailed, hands on. But it's too expensive that way. A couple rounds of reapplying market rules and arguably it would be 100-200€ per DLC. Or 5.

    The #1 requirement for such a successor is the ability to process TS1 content.
    And that was deemed impossible. Which is bull, but in a more specific sense, might be so.
     
  38. AirbourneAlex

    AirbourneAlex Well-Known Member

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    I've said this before but I think DTG should focus more on building more rolling stock for TSW but keep TS alive with a trickle of new routes; recent loco DLCs like the Class 60 and Class 89 weren't very good and I think the resources could be better spent on making something like a Class 142 for TSW Tees Valley or a Class 117 for Great Western Express Diesel legends thing. There's still plenty of new routes possible for TS and new stock can be developed for them (like the 323 in Cross City) but I don't think standalone loco packs by DTG for TS are necessary anymore (please feel free to disagree). There's also plenty of routes and route extensions that can be made that won't require any new stock at all.
     
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  39. BeenTrain

    BeenTrain Member

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    Well it was presented as the succesor. But still today TS has the double amount of players daily according to Steam Charts.
    So you could indeed conclude that TSW is not the succesor as foreseen.
    Business wise still very valid to invest in TS, as DTG and third parties do.

    As said very different gameplay so different games so still hoping TS will evolve into a succesor of it self.
    However this says nothing about TSW. There certainly is market for it, but personal still not temped to step in.
     
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  40. SJA

    SJA Active Member

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    Indeed, we're seeing that in fact. It's a very good time to come into train simming for PC users at the moment. I started with Railworks in 2012 or so -- the main thing swinging it for me being the availability of AP sound packs for added realism at the time. I used OpenBVE before that which felt like a purer sim compared to some early default stuff for TS. Now I would choose TS over TSW for that purpose, not to mention the mountain of content that has come out since.

    We're slowly seeing networks start to fill out with high quality routes (JT's Midland Mainline and DTG's West Midlands area for example), and sometimes it feels like TS is gaining momentum rather than losing it. I wonder how many other PC users will be sold on TS Classic not only because of default stock and how much is available on a trusted platform like Steam, but also the huge amount of high quality third party content.

    There is easily room for both TS Classic and TSW in the market for years to come. It would be madness to ignore the console market, but the two sims feel less and less like rivals these days.
     
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  41. AirbourneAlex

    AirbourneAlex Well-Known Member

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    I also fear that if DTG keep releasing content with obvious bugs and not acknowledging and fixing them, people will be discouraged to buy new products at full price and will either avoid altogether or wait for a sale. This might reduce the revenue potential of TS content and threaten its viability. I could be talking a load of brown stuff and that may not be the case but that's just my take...
     
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  42. VictorHugoVS

    VictorHugoVS Active Member

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    I agree, recently I feel discouraged from investing in Train Simulator, I just play with what I have.

    On the one hand there is the TSW2 with its wonderful graphics, I love the passenger mode and 24-hour timetable, but that's it. Even with the launch of new routes, it seems that the game does not change. I wish you had an improved tool for creating scenarios available, and that you could share.

    While TS, even though it is an old game, I prefer it even more, because I know that I can drive from London to Edinburgh with mods, have more freedom to create scenarios, I can download reskins for more up-to-date companies. Even with their problems, which do not rule out the need to be fixed, I prefer this one more.

    It scares me and discourages the possibility that one day we will no longer have Train Simulator Support, and depend on third party content. Even though it is an old game, I still see the future. What I want is a long life for Train Simulator and enhancement for both games, there is no need to sacrifice for each other to improve.
     
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  43. triznya.andras

    triznya.andras Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely, and I intentionally removed the rest of the post.
    It takes a while but folks get used to bugs. Everyone in their own way.
    It helps that I'm from a country not covered (inching closer, though) and thus I don't have any local things that I absolutely want. (ÖBB content kinda qualifies.)

    Judging by (Steam) forum activity, the majority picks things up during sales.
    After your first round of hoarding you quickly learn that you don't really need to rush. Wait to see reviews on each DLC, monitor a wishlist.

    I wonder if a subscription model would benefit both parties. The current system encourages picking up preferably cheap items and then playing them. I basically stopped buying in 2017 yet I have content for several decades. Or am I alone with this feeling?
    (Pricing a sub for me would be funny, though, considering the amount I already spent. Probably too late.)

    Heck, TSW in a dirty way helps this, too. Can't play your old stuff, sorry. Reset.

    Bottom line: Probably I wouldn't mind absolute zero new DLC, but I would hope they keep the engine workable for a long time. (I have working games from 1998.)
     
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  44. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    I remember people saying that TS would be dead by 2021 back in 2018. Same crap, different day.
     
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  45. inversnecky

    inversnecky Well-Known Member

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    The Steam charts would show only the PC users, no? Not the console ones?
     
  46. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    I believe that PC accounts for about one third of TSW users
     
  47. IronBladder

    IronBladder Well-Known Member

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    Possibly, but I'd make the observation that if you're serious about gaming you get a PC. That's what all my kids have done. They wouldn't dream of using a console now as a powerful PC will eat any console and can continue to be improved as money and innovation allows. And it's the serious gamers who buy lots of content.

    I think the console market is fools' gold if you've got the DTG business model that requires large sales of DLC.
     
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  48. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    I seem to think you have been saying this for a few years now - and each year you add another year to the end date.
    Have you thought of changing your username to Doom&Gloom-otron :D
     
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  49. BeenTrain

    BeenTrain Member

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    Confirmed! Total different game.
     
  50. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    I said something similar further up. Being old doesn't mean a game needs to die. Take World of Warcraft as an example. Released in 2004 and still going strong. Sometimes game play, third party support, and a dedicated user base are more important than being the latest and greatest. WoW is as strong as ever after 15 years, and you have to pay a monthly subscription to play that.
     
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