Headlight Bad In Us Locos And To Short Trains In Us

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by jörgen Näslund, Mar 21, 2021.

  1. jörgen Näslund

    jörgen Näslund Well-Known Member

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    In latest "stream" with Matt and Sam
    Clinchfield Railroad first preview | Train Sim World 2 Link (very good Preview on this awesome route)
    We get information about these things.

    Headlight Locos
    I have been annoyed for many years at the bad headlights on the locomotives.
    1: The length of the light on them. You only see a very short in front of the locomotive.
    You should see at least 100 meters 300 feet illuminated area in front of the locomotive.
    Now it is just a few meters
    2: When you see a locomotive coming towards you (you looking at the loco from outside) the headlight light up up very late.
    You should see them in miles (kilometers) from you.

    Matt say they cant solve this in TSW just now.
    If they do good headlight in night they become to bright in day.
    so they have chosen the day solution all 24 hours.
    I really hope they can find a solution to this, it is so important.
    Even in Train simulator 2020 it is not good either.
    But Open rails Run8 it is good headlight.

    Train Length in Us. They are to short.
    Most train in Us have 100 wagons or more. But max length in TSW is 40-50 wagons
    Why?. Matt say here. They can do long trains but frame rate on slow consoles/pc is affected.
    So they has found that 40-50 wagons are good for most people.
    But I and many others have good computers and want long trains. should I suffer because others have bad things. Apparently. (I have tested a 300 wagons train and it went pretty smooth).
    And we have not consist editor so i can myself do long trains.
    I guess the dovetail don't want have a long train in TSW because then there is a risk that consoles people shouting on bad frame rates.

    But I'm still happy to know this. Sometimes I have wondered if dovetail is aware of this problems.
    But Matt and Sam know this problems.

    For me to me, it gives more confidence to dovetail if they talk about the problems but they have a hard time finding solutions than just silencing them like they did before.
    So happy that Sam can ask Matt the difficult/Hard questions.
    Thanks Sam and Matt

    But the routes is awesome and of course i shall buy it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2021
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  2. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I have to agree with the headlights part. Though I don't know how bright US train headlights are in real life, but the excuse of not being able to balance it properly for day and night seems pretty silly. There are many games with headlights on vehicles that can get it right with no problem.

    At the very least they could change the intensity of the headlights according to the time of the day or outside brightness. I'm sure pretty much every graphics engine allows you to change light source properties in real time if you'd want to.

    And yeah, the worst offender is the fact that you can't see oncoming locomotives headlight flares from far away. In real life you can see a train's headlights from kilometres. The train might be so far away that you can't even see it, but you will see the flares of the headlights. It's also a pretty simple thing to simulate, and on SPG for example this effect works on the signals (you can see signal lights from really far away). The same method could be used for headlight flares as well. I wonder how it hasn't been implemented in TSW yet.

    But other than this, the route seems really promising. I think I'll definitely buy it.
     
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  3. geloxo

    geloxo Well-Known Member

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    Of course they can solve it as the BR182 has an amazing light cone with longer distances than usual and very intense light inside tunnels. It has 3 light sources as the american engines. And also there´s a variable used to tweak the headlights distance (r.LightMaxDrawDistanceScale) but as usual it´s upper limit is capped and you can increase it by few meters only.

    Cheers
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2021
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  4. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    AC4400 from Searchlight has a nice solution for this - a player can manually turn night lighting (effects) ON/OFF
     
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  5. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    It would be nice to have longer trains but everyone has to be catered for, not just those blessed with top spec computers. I don’t think I should suffer because you have great things. I’m happy with 50 wagons for now. It would be zero if it wasn’t for the game being available on both PC and console, as TSW just wouldn’t exist, so we all need to get along and not blame consoles for everything.
     
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  6. wxtr7

    wxtr7 Well-Known Member

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    Lighting in general needs to be improved, as many forum threads have pointed out. It is quite disappointing that US headlights aren't brighter in game, but it is what it is.

    I see it all the time on the forums "well just add a setting that checks for more beefy hardware..."
    It's not just a simple
    if (Computer.HasExtremelyPowerfulHardware() || IsNextGenConsole())
    {
    UnlockEverything();
    }
    There's a lot more to it because you have to manage that, not just on load, but also every time you need to load features that may differ based on current hardware settings. There's also a bit of a grey area, what if you have a RTX3090, but only an i3 5th Gen processor. Sure the graphics card is great, but the CPU will hold you back. Where do you define "high end" system. Then of course, assuming this existed and you got a 100 car freight train, you'll still take a performance hit, so now someone doesn't get their precious 60FPS and that begins a new complaint, leading right back to the same issue.
     
  7. Redbus

    Redbus Well-Known Member

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    Theoretically this limitation should eventually go away once DTG drop support for last gen consoles which are weak at the CPU level, perhaps sometime in the next 5-10 years, who knows? As you say, in the meantime 50 wagons are already a handful! :D
     
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  8. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    I don't think it's the consoles' fault, but the previous generation inhibits the development a bit. I belong to the ancient group myself, with my poor laptop. But I choose the future. The rest have to adapt. This is, of course, a simplification. DTG has a sales volume in mind. To sum up: it's nobody's fault or the lack of it, but pure pragmatism, business decisions.
     
  9. pugilist3

    pugilist3 Active Member

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    The headlights and ditch lights are terrible in TSW2 and really hope DTG can find a fix! Am happy to know they are working on it.
     
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  10. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Couldn't agree more. I think those PC players who insinuate that consoles are somehow holding the game back, are very shortsighted.
    As for longer trains: I see freights with well over 150 cars pass through my neighborhood every day. So, whether TSW2 has 50 or 100 car trains is immaterial to me. It's just a representation of "long", an arbitrary number. Anyway, when you're loading coal or whatever, 40 or 50 hoppers is quite enough thank you.
    I would like normal headlights on US locos, though. I'm sure they'll find a way to do that eventually.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2021
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  11. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    This is not about 'holding'. DTG has to take into consideration market profile. That's all. On the other side, we expect all these improvements to the game. So, it is a not really easy choice - a spectacular revolution but for a what cost? I am 'happy' - with my low-end console-like rig, because I can play in the name of that 'holding', but - I love to see TSW be superior, without watching back. The old generation is really very old right now :)

    PS PS4 premiered in 2013. TSW cannot be a game with the quality of 8 years ago and that's it. This is not about good or bad gaming platforms :) \o/
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 22, 2021
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  12. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    the matter of consist length is a case of "how often are you going to look at car 79 in a consist" and "can you emulate a long consist with a shorter one for the most part"
    The issue of numerous cars in game is that simugraph is constantly checking for several variables and pressures to determine what each wagon should be doing in relation to the next wagon, and the consist in total so if your PC is having to work out the state of two engines and 40 wagons that's about of 42 states, 84 interactions etc etc and this grows every time you add anything to the consist

    With regards to the lights, I imagine it depends on whether DTG can dynamically change the light's effect dependent on what's going on around it. A light that shines 2 miles at night will still shine that far in the day, but you won't notice it as much because of the light around it, but whether DTG can change this on the go is another matter, and of course this would mean something in game making checks either constantly or periodically to determine how far the light should shine in a given situation
    Sometimes this would be an obvious thing (such as at night or in tunnels), sometimes not (such as the end of tunnels, twilight and dusk, rain and fog etc) so how it's programmed is probably a lot more complex than "it should be like this"
     
  13. JetWash

    JetWash Well-Known Member

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    This, 1000 times over.
     
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  14. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    I see your point. But most of our console players are still using the original machines.The new ones haven't been available for very long and are in short supply anyway, last I heard. So, what, we just throw them under the bus? Well, this discussion probably needs its own thread, so I'll leave it there.
     
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  15. LastTrainToClarksville

    LastTrainToClarksville Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure when the video first appeared, but I'm taking my first look at it today and finding this route very impressive indeed. I may not even wait for a sale (unless there's a pre-release price, of course), before buying. And I may even find myself enjoying Journey mode for a change, given Matt's explanation of how it's organized for this route.
    Let me go stuff my piggy-bank and grab another cup of coffee before watching the south-bound section of the video. .........
     
  16. jörgen Näslund

    jörgen Näslund Well-Known Member

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    I like challenges. Drive a train with 40 wagons or 120 wagons is big difference.
    I have tested in others simulators. (Run8 and Openrails)
    Especially if you only have the locomotive in front which is quite common where it is not incredibly hilly.
    braking makes a big difference when you get the big delay in the system.
    So I want to drive 120 wagons train and get that challenge but here I can not get it right now.
     
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  17. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Well, as of now, the only routes that would see trains of such length would be Sand Patch and (imminently) Clinchfield. So, given the frame rate problem, I doubt that DTG would consider increasing train length to be a priority. Actually, given how those two routes are modeled, I'm not sure they could accommodate trains of the length you suggest, even if it were possible.
     
  18. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    According to Matt in the stream, Clinchfield's passing sidings were all designed for 100-120 cars, and the game route copies the RL layout
     
  19. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    CRR coal trains operating in that area could be considered locals. Local trains are rarely 100+ cars or much longer, I suppose.
    Some transit traffic could be more into disgustingly long trains :D ~50 car is enough, I think.

    Yeah, R8 is fun in that matter, but I find it more practical up to 10k ft maybe.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 22, 2021
  20. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    OK, I guess I missed that. I'm still trying to imagine loading a 120 car coal train on either of those two routes, though.:) Come to think of it, however, I do seem to recall that Matt said that there was limited coal loading on the CRR route, so maybe it wouldn't matter. In any case, due to performance issues, we're limited to the 40 or 50 cars and I think that is sufficient to represent a "long" freight for gaming purposes.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2021
  21. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    I think the only time I would want to see an increase in train size would be for astatic purposes, such as the Tehachapi Loop, which requires trains of around 4,000ft (1219.2m) to cross over itselft at the loop. With he longest legal standard railcar being 89ft, that would require at least 45 to 50 cars, but something like a 50ft boxcar would require at least 80 cars....
    SP Tehachapi over under-M.jpg
     
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  22. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    I am afraid all CRR powers is not enough to pull 120 cars full of coal uphill there :D
     
  23. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    But they did! Using multiple locos on the lead, one or more mid consist and 2 or 3 pushers at the rear. The line was so busy in it's heyday, some trains were well over 120 loaded hoppers long.
     
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  24. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    Oh, interesting! This is about the epicness \o/ I don't know exactly which coal wagons they used but today we can talk about 15k tons train (120 cars). This is a task for 10 or even more F7s. WOW! They had a vision :) CRAZY!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 22, 2021
  25. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Yes, mountain or desert routes might be appropriate. I haven't checked back but didn't some of the TS routes, like Revelstoke, have very long trains that self looped?
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2021
  26. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Well, unlike in the TSW2 route, they had many different locomotives, SD40's , GP's, U Boats etc..They didn't just rely on F units.
     
  27. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, Kicking Horse Pass has a double loop in-game, as well as one of the Switzerland routes too.
    spiral-tunnels-2x.jpg
     
  28. jörgen Näslund

    jörgen Näslund Well-Known Member

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    Headlight issue, Can it be an unreal problem. Looking in car headlight yesterday and flashlight in unreal. But I cant found anything good light. I was looking after long headlight light. Well lit area.
    But those who find it in unreal would be good if they tell us. Then we know its an not Unreal problem.

    Yes but it is in Train simulator i think. But we should have same solution in TSW.
    This searchlight headlight is very good. For overall loco is bad even in train simulator

    When Tsw came 4 years ago so I thought that now we will get good headlight in loco. But that did not happen unfortunately
     
  29. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    Yes. Very well done example of proper headlights. I use it with the bloom option off. Looks even better.
    I guess we're not talking about the same locomotive, however :) But it's a matter of taste \o/
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 22, 2021
  30. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    By the time period modeled, they had either the U36Cs, or the SD45s they traded the Uboats for. Each about double the HP of an F7
     
  31. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    pre-console build :D



    PS do not be fooled by my taunts - the decision to move towards consoles was the best DTG ever, and for us too \o/

    but sometimes it's worth getting to know a piece of history

    ... It looks like an unreal engine to me - it even looks a bit like one game ... wait a minute! :D
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 23, 2021
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  32. jörgen Näslund

    jörgen Näslund Well-Known Member

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    Picture from the video above from TSW Sand patch grade. It sky is dark and pretty good headlight
    From TSW2 Sand patch Grade from 01:00 in night. The sky does not get darker.
    Maybe lucky it with these headlights. I like to drive trains in the dark but certainly not in TSW.
    What have happenings with TSW last year?

    No one can say that it looks like that at night. if you are not far up north in the summer.
    it should be completely dark like 2017 TSW

     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2021
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  33. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    In my opinion, TSW2 changed the brightness globally. The game looks 'better' theoretically, but it loses some aspects and people like us start to complain :)
     

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