This is always something I've wondered, and I'd like to try and gain some knowledge as to why TSW2 is so over saturated with these kinds of routes. I won't deny that my lack of familiarity may be affecting my judgement, but I want to know why we have all these routes that, to an outsider, look almost exactly the same. I genuinely cannot tell the difference between some of them, they seem to have the same rolling stock and two of them have "Rhein- Ruhr" in the title. I can't be the only one who's tired of the repitition? You could say the same goes for British routes, but at the very least I'd imagine Great Western Express, East Coastway and South Eastern High Speed are fairly easy to distinguish, even to someone unfamiliar with the routes in real life. They have different trains in different liveries, as opposed to every train being coloured red. Is there something I'm missing here that influences the decision to have so many similar routes? Don't get me wrong, I enjoy some of these routes greatly. SKA and HMA have become favourites of mine in particular, but surely we need more variety? At least experiment with different time periods or better still, explore other parts of Europe. France still only has one route, while the likes of The Netherlands, Italy, Spain etc have none. Germany has SEVEN (if I counted right). I'm sorry if this came across as complaining. I just wish there was a little more variety in this game, and wanted to know if anyone else felt the same way.
Because we who love German stuff prefer modern with some stuff from the past still operating today on today's infrastructure. I personally love DB red and think there is lots of variety in the game. Could there be more? Of course. I personally would actually like to see more routes in NRW (Rhein-Ruhr) area but that's me.
The answer is quite simple actually: there is a lot of demand for modern German routes, plus it's relatively easy to get reference material and DB seems happy to have its trains replicated in simulators. It makes a lot of sense from a financial standpoint to have this be a sort of 'focus region', alongside the UK and the U.S. And whilst the rolling stock and routes all seem similar to each other, they all do have their differences. SKA and HMA are perfect highspeed routes for the famous ICE's. Rhein-Ruhr Osten and Hauptstrekce Rhein-Ruhr are in the same region within Germany, and both feature frequent commuter runs. MSB and RSN on the other hand, offer a more scenic run through hills and valleys. Even comparing between locos, each one serves a specific purpose that's utilized in each route. There's a lot of variety here, including high speed trains, heavy freight trains, and various other commuter trains. And here's the best part: most of these trains can be used throughout multiple different routes, making German content much more valuable thanks to all its reusability.
But the variety really is just variations on a theme. We have vintage UK and US routes, and even Arosa is slightly vintage (the Ge 4/4 II is being phased out). For real variety, DTG should do a Bundesbahn-era route- not every fan of German rail is enamoured of sterile robo-trains!
It must be hard for the likes of dtg to please everyone. I’m not that particularly interested in steam trains tbh although it would be nice to have one or two in TSW2. I mentioned this in another thread that there is maybe a business case to split the TSW franchise into two as in a UK only one because UK routes appear to be the most popular? and a rest of the world one. Or a worldwide vintage railway one and a world wide modern day railway one. Ha! they could even keep developing the world wide vintage railway one exclusively for PS4! ( Joke! )
A couple of years ago or so in the Steam forums for Train Simulator there was a discussion about the user base and someone at Dovetail came up with some figures. IIRC the largest group, about 13% of users, is (or was then) in Germany. If there's a correlation between TS and TSW ownership, which seems likely, Dovetail is playing to its biggest market. Doesn't answer the original question really though- there is an active preservation movement in Germany which is unrepresented by backdated routes and vintage traction. Perhaps the current lack of steam in TSW is some explanation. As an aside and again IIRC the rest of the "big three's" market share was about 10% each for Britain (a slightly lower percentage of a smaller population) and the USA (whose huge population is apparently barely aware of train sim's) but most interesting was that the big three was actually a big four. Another 10% of the user base was in Australia which isn't represented at all although that seems to be a matter of licensing rather than will. I wonder what the figures are now.
I wasn't aware of the varieties within the routes themselves, likely as I've barely touched them. While I've played quite a bit of SKA and HMA, and I used to play Rapid Transit semi frequently in TSW2020, I have only really played the tutorials for the rest. As a matter of fact, I didn't even bother transferring over Main Spessart Bahn when I transitioned from TSW2020 to TSW2, because I don't think I ever touched it. It's great that the content is reusable, and I can't deny it makes sense to have all these routes, but I still stand by that we need more variety in this game in terms of what countries the routes take place in.
Variety is a good thing but skyMutt explained it perfectly. There simply isn't much demand for a historic german route. Also the preference for german players is modern German routes, not historic German routes according to dtg. It's just the reality. Could dtg make one yes but it seems much easier for dtg to make a modern german route since they have a good relationship with db instead of having to do twice the research for an older style german route. There is also so many modern german routes that can be made as well. Not to mention not all modern german routes are the same
Variety with German routes is kinda poor even for those that do know them, at least compared to UK and American routes. All routes are in modern times and all of them are electrified. The consequence of that is similar looking trains that often get reused mutiple times (br 185, dostos, 422...) and no diesel traction at all apart from a shunter. Service diversity is not great either as most routes have similar services just in a different setting. There is barely any freight, the last routes 4 were all passenger focused and the upcoming Hamburg - Lübeck will be just the same. I seriously hope the next route brings some interesting freight operations for some diversity.
Oh yeah, definetly. I'm not German myself, but would rather drive on German routes. I drive with the HUD off and German routes are the only ones where I can drive any route, from the get go, confidently. The signalling system is the only one that allows for that. In the UK it is all about route knowledge, and it takes some time to get used to the different speed limits. PZB and LZB are safety systems that are very rewarding and immersive in comparison with, say, AWS. And reusability of the stock across routes is for me a plus, not a minus.
Well, PZB is rewarding. LZB just turns you into nothing but Sifa's button-monkey. (Also, PZB/Indusi has been around since before the war; it's not like a Bundesbahn route wouldn't have it)
And my answer will be "That's what dtg have said". It may not be a nice thing to hear but it is what it is
Yeah to elaborate, DTG once disclosed that from their data, British players tend to like the older eras more the older the player themselves are (therefore younger players tend to like modern routes more), whereas for German players like modern more across the board, regardless of age. That's statistics, so if you are not falling in line with this that is of course fine. And also true, it is not only German players who buy German routes, but I believe we did not receive any info about players interest in routes foreign to their regions. Plus, and that is a bit of a wild guess to be fair, it would make sense from a business standpoint to target a german route at german audience first and foremost, and British routes to British audience. Which of course does not mean that other players won't enjoy it anyway.
Those statistics make sense. Yes not all people who buy German routes are German but it would make sense from a business standpoint as you stated if a route is made in Germany for example and if pretty much most German players perfer modern German routes across the board to make modern German routes to attract that German audience who prefers modern German routes even if they don't make up a majority of the playerbase or sales to satisfy those players because if German players perfer modern routes and if a historic German Route was made, it may not go down well with the German audience and not sell well in Germany. Besides modern German routes sell well anyways and are popular with many players. (That is speculation of course but the statistics seem to point in that direction). Also alot of the suggestions I've seen in my time on the forums is usually a modern German route. I've seen new ones suggsting the Berlin S-Bahn and several different lines to be made in a modern representation of the network. In Britain it can be balanced because it seems 50/50 since older British people like older content and younger people like modern content so that can be balanced out. But it does make sense that routes made in any country target that countries perfered era of routes even if a player who doesn't live in said country doesn't like that particular era or may not be happy with that. That doesn't mean that other players won't enjoy it though. It might be annoying to some that a route is made in a era that they are not interested in but it is what it is at the end of the day Do you know mclitke the statistics for U.S routes by any chance as I am not sure myself?
And spmetimes one can be surprised. I initially had no interest in vintage UK; now NTP is one of my favorite routes, and I bought the HFP and TVL. However- one also has to factor in the very real consideration of variety. The modern German routes are pretty much all the same, and the rolling stock is absolutely all the same. Hell, DTG won't even give us a 218, and they're still in use!
I 100% get that and maybe dtg should consider making a historic German route but if dtg thinks that the best strategy is to make modern German routes according to the statistics they have then it is what it is. That's their decision. Also there are other German modern trains that are not the same and other German routes that are yet to be made as well. A DB BR 481 isn't the same as a db br 425. Maybe we will see a db br 218 or a historic German route in the future (I am not against either of those things) but from a business standpoint, it would make sense to make content that would interest players from the country that dtg are making in my opinion even if some may disagree
I’m an American rail enthusiast and I love all the regions in the game, personally I would like to see more American mountain freight railroads added to the game. I enjoy them because I enjoy the challenge of getting a long heavy train over and then safely down the mountain. I am not a big fan of electrified lines as I find them to be not as much of a challenge. I am eagerly awaiting steam to be introduced to the game, In real life I have operated and fired classic American steam locomotives and this is something I can not wait to have in the game as it was a rush then, and I look forward to re-living the experience! I am really enjoying the Arosa line so far, and am beyond excited for Clinchfield. I enjoy all of the German routes in the game as well as the UK routes. I really enjoy the variety of jumping between regions. I do agree that it would interest me to have some classic German routes as well, as it seems to be the only region in the game that hasn’t received any type of heritage route. I must admit I’m not that knowledgeable on German heritage equipment other than really enjoying what I saw in the Transportation museum in Berlin. I’ve enjoyed all the routes so far, but I must admit I do find the electric high speed lines to be very redundant.
I think if a historic German route was to be made and there was not too much demand for one it would be best to do what they did with diesel legends of the great western and just make an alternate timetable for an existing route, This way even though the experience may not be as good there will at least be a bit of content in that area.
Except that, unlike for DLGW, the locomotives and rolling stock don't exist and can't be borrowed from other DLC.
Yeah you have so right. They don't do Swedish routes so for me German routes is nearest me. I am not interested in Uk routes but i buy German routes. Many wagons and engines in German is even here in Sweden. So German things is working for large part of Europe
I'm unfamiliar with historic german railways so since there seems to be some interest for a historic german route and some are complaining that there are too much modern German routes, I would like to ask what historic german route would you guys and gals would like to see in tsw?
Linke Rheinstrecke, the left-bank Rhine railway, between Koblenz and Mainz. Unreal scenery, castles, and the TEE Rheingold express in its 60s-70s heyday.
Depends where you want to begin and end. The best part is between Koblenz and Bingen, which includes the Rhine Gorge- that would be 49 km (30 miles) straight line, but 74 rail km (45 miles)- a bit longer than has been traditional, but DTG seem willing to go a bit longer (Clinchfield is almost 60 miles counting branches and spurs)
So it seems this route can be made then. DTG seem to be making longer routes with branch lines as well with complex services so perhaps in the future this line could be made. I do believe that at some point dtg could make a historic German route but time will tell. In my opinion a historic german route should be made for people who are interested in one but then at the same if most German players are not interested in older routes, it may not go down well with them but hey you never know. It would probably be a experiment which wouldn't be a surprise since some things dtg have done have been experiment after experiment.
The people here aren't the biggest fans of American freight routes, yet the moment that a well executed one like Clinchfield pops up people are very interested in it. There's also a lot of people that aren't into steam, but even a lot of those are interested whenever Smokebox makes a loco. A historic German route would be the same, make one and it's one of the best route in the game? People will flock to it very quickly. Conversely if it's utter rubbish people won't bother and avoid it. Execution matters as much, if not more than concept.
True but we will just have to wait and see if there is a historic German route. I would not buy it though since I'm not into historic content
American freight railroads are my personal favorites! Nothing like taking a long heavy train over a mountain!! I’m incredibly excited about the Clinchfield. Especially with working the steep grades and various branch lines, I think it will be a lot of fun! I find all the passenger routes to be a bit repetitive, especially the commuter type routes. To be honest I think one letdown on SPG is there is a daily Amtrak train that operates over that route, I think it would be enjoyable to have it in the game. I’m not complaining I’ve enjoyed every route they have put out so far, and there is really no other train sim that goes to the level of detail as this one. I would enjoy a historical German route for sure. I actually think it would be very cool to have a wartime route really in any of the countries in Europe as this could make for some interesting and fun scenarios, think things like below. These are front he 1964 movie The Train with Burt Lancaster, which if you have not seen it is a very good movie that probably couldn’t be made in todays day and age as it used real trains to film. I realize it was set in France, but there would still be the opportunity for some fun scenarios!
Im honestly curious about this as well, are US players more fond of modern routes or historic routes. I also wonder if this could be different based on where the player is located. Also where would the split be between Historic and Modern? Would it be the 90s due to the mergers that happend that decade (BN+SF, UP taking over CNW and SP, Conrail split between NS and CSX) Or would it be older like the 80s or 70s?
I wonder if dtg can give us the statistics on U.S preference because that does interest me. As a American I am mainly interested in modern American passenger routes. I have no interest in freight routes or historic content
I'll take just about any US freight route, contemporary or vintage, so long as we get a variety of settings and rolling stock (please, let's not keep recycling the Sand Patch set of locos). Vintage passenger (pre-Amtrak) would be interesting, and colorful. Commuter rail bores me to tears.
I would be willing to bet it is probably based both on location and age as far as US rail fans go with favorite routes. I wouldn’t be surprised if players enjoy a certain era based on nostalgia of having grown up in that era, or first got in to rail fanning around that time period. I know I have a certain fondness for late 90s Conrail/NS right around the time of the merger. They used to be very friendly and hosted a huge annual rail fest at the Juniata shops. Having grown up in Pittsburgh most of the local model railroad clubs modeled the Western PA regions, as well as PA industrial railroads. I’ve been living in a different state for 15 years now, and I think also it is the feeling of home when you play certain routes that are familiar to you. I think some people are attracted to even further classic US railroads as they may have family legacy or a certain connection to the area, railroad, or time period.
