Merseyrail runs through liverpool above and underground and it is the most punctual train company in the UK. The Merseyrail network are operated by British Rail Class 507, Class 508 and British Rail Class 777s electric multiple unit trains.
I noticed there's a section in the Liverpool - Machester route with 3rd rail but it only goes for a short distance. I'm guessing that's part of the Merseyrail network? Maybe could be incorporated somehow.
That is where the West Kirby route I mentioned is. It runs through this metro network in the middle towards the Chester area.
I remember travelling on these lines when visiting my grandfather. I think it was my first encounter with train doors that opened at the push of a button rather having to lean out of the window and wrestle with a handle that seemed singularly stiff and ill suited to the purpose to someone with child sized hands. It seemed very Star Trek after the cattle trucks we'd ride in between Stourbridge and New Street.
Not sure what you mean by a break in the middle...??? I can probably answer any questions on this route as it's my local area & know staff who work on Merseyrail... Eric
What I mean is that there appears to be no direct through service, but two separate termini that would otherwise be connected by a now disused line. Let me demonstrate with a picture, then I'll bring up a Wikipedia page. So, south of here is Chester, while to the northwest the line continues towards West Kirby. Birkenhead Central is a terminus. Birkenhead Park is a terminus. The line that connects those two sections is a disused line. The blue line (metro) goes from BOTH stations named to eventually intersect and head towards Hamilton Square. So let's go look up the Wirral Line at Wikipedia. On the minimap, all looks fine until you get to Birkenhead Park, then the line goes dotted. It continues on, circles around Liverpool Lime Street, then continues back around the loop and, I presume, out to Birkenhead Central. It then continues normally. The Birkenhead Dock Branch, which appears on the map to still exist as a spur, is marked as no longer existing on Wikipedia and is presumably not used. So is this route literally using Metro trains for the entire distance, and what is with the classification on the lines? I find it amusing they have customers circling around Liverpool when they just want to go from West Kirby to Chester, for instance.
Nope... Definitely not... Again, definitely not... On the Wirral lines there are 4 termini namely, West Kirby, New Brighton, Ellesmere Port and Chester with all trains working to/from Liverpool around "the loop"... The Wirral Lines operate "one line working" which doesn't mean it's single track (its all double tracked) but trains operate from West Kirby to West Kirby (via the Liverpool loop), likewise New Brighton to New Brighton, Ellesmere Port to Ellesmere Port and Chester to Chester... There are a few workings that go from West Kirby to New Brighton but these are the exception rather than the rule... The Liverpool loop consists of 4 stations, James Street, Moorfields (passengers can change to Northern line services here) Liverpool Lime Street (Low Level) where passengers can change to Main Line / City Line services "upstairs", Liverpool Central (again passengers can change onto Northern Line services and finally back to James Street... There is a "stock interchange line" situated at Leeds Street between James Street & Moorfields (not marked on public maps & not used by passenger trains) to enable stock to transfer from the Wirral to Northern Lines (& vice versa) as there is a maintenance facility at Kirkdale (on the Northern Line) with units occasionally being sent there for operational reasons... There is also a maintenance facility at Birkenhead North on the Wirral Line... Please feel free to ask any further questions you may have... Eric
On the picture you supplied the Wirral Lines are BLUE or YELLOW, the PINK line is a tramway and the BLACK lines are the disused dock lines... Eric
Thanks, Eric. Of course, the recent accident at Kirkby was a reminder that it had lines from two sides, buffered.
Yes sort of... At Kirkby it's a "straight through line", however there is a set of buffer stops where the 3rd rail territory ends at the bridge... Then the track continues but part of the platform extends into the middle of the track by 15 - 20 ft(?) thus preventing a train running through... View towards Liverpool... ...and at the Manchester end of the station there's another set of buffer stops... Eric
Well said but that might change if Class 777 has a battery-powered capability which would have charged from the third rail 750 v dc Top Contact on the other side of the station. That would mean the buffer in the picture would have been demolished and have the tracks run straight through for use by Class 777 if those trains have Battery power capability to run on diesel routes. This will mean a train simulator 21 tutorial how to switch between third rail and battery power for the non 750v DC Third rail Top Contact sections. Think of the class 777 as a modern Class 419 BEMU that compiles with DDA 1995
This assumes a developer does this correctly. And that would assume likely AP. I'm not sure whether DTG or JT (the latter who spends more time on routes) would be able to pull this one off.
Precisely. Unless we find a line from West Kirby being created, there's little point to thinking about it. That reminds me... So let me get this straight. Th routes all generally circle the "Liverpool Loop" and then head back where they came from, staying within the scope of their own lines and not straying? Well, I get the reason for this one. There is no Metro to Liverpool en route here, so this one can go between the two areas freely. Took me a while to find Leeds Street. After a regular Maps search, I went back to Open Rails and found it there. Looks like the Waterloo Tunnel goes under it, and the "abandoned" Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway runs over it. Is the track in question associated with either of these? Screenshot here, and the blue loop at the south end is the loop heading south, on the left, into Moorfields for those not familiar with the map. It also appears that the disused Lancashire line I know it's a heritage route and no longer in that form) heads north from the metro to Sandhills, which leads to Kirkdale, and I saw a branch line inbrown that curves back around onto the main Liverpool-Mahcnester line. I assume the second is unrelated. The tunnel does not go near Kirkland, meanwhile. So my suspicion is the heritage line is the one that gets used.
Cyclone... I'm having a hard time comprehending what you mean when you say metro... Do you mean Liverpool as a city or the transport network??? I don't mean to sound stupid, probably just one of those cross-language confusion issues... Gas / petrol, trunk / boot etc... Eric
The blue line on the Open Rails map is marked as a metro line. Orange is a main line, yellow is a local line. There are others, like the pink trams and disused branch lines in brown, but those are the main ones relevant to this discussion. The yellow lines at West Kirby and Chester end at the two Birkenhead stations and the bloe metro lines pick up and merge en route to Liverpool. I found an "abandoned" line that seems to follow your suggested path to Kirkdale, and asked if that is the line not marked on passenger maps or whether the line is in a different spot. The line in question once served the Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway (see link). That abandoned line runs alongside and joins the Northern Line northeast of Moorfieds, but the abandoned line stops dead at Tithebarn Street. The network went north to Southport and three of the lines on a map I found via Google still exist, with the Cheshire Lines Railway having been abandoned (Hillhouse Junction is still on the map). The Liverpool to Manchester route once took this northerly path and the current main line did not exist. But this does not matter. I'm basically asking where on the open rails screenshots I'm showing the hidden railway line is, and whether even the Open Rail map shows it or whether it's literally a trade secret.
Yes, exactly... West Kirby calling at all intermediate stations to James St, Moorfields, Lime St, Central, James St, then all intermediate stations back to West Kirby... Same for New Brighton etc... Not sure what you mean by this comment... If I think I understand what you are trying to say then the train leaves West Kirby calling at all intermediate stations to James St, Moorfields, Lime St, Central, James St, then all intermediate stations to New Brighton... Theoretically a train could get from West Kirby to New Brighton WITHOUT going to Liverpool by reversing between Bidston & Birkenhead North but I've never known it to happen let alone with passengers on board... BOTH lines are disused however there was some talk of the Waterloo tunnel being brought back into use... There are NO heritage lines in Merseyside (if by heritage line you mean preserved railway like the East Lancs or Llangollen Railway (yes I know it's in receivership but that's not the issue here)... The nearest we have [to a heritage railway] is the Wirral (Birkenhead) Tramway that runs from Woodside Ferry Terminal to 12 Quays / Taylor Street Museum (just under a mile in length)... There is a "freight only" line which forms part of the old North Liverpool Loop Line (not to be confused with the Merseyrail Loop Line) which runs from Edge Hill to Seaforth Container Terminal... Hope this helps??? Eric
Have you got a link to the Open Rail Maps please??? If you're on about the Leeds Street Interchange line, Its not a secret... anyone who knows about railways or the local area will probably know about it however... You wouldn't see anything as it's all underground!!!
This might help you get you head around the Merseyrail network... Merseyrail Network Map Wirral Lines are Green, Northern Lines are Blue, both operated by Merseyrail 507 / 508's at the moment...
Sorry, I forgot that link. https://www.openrailwaymap.org/ Covers the entire world. You can go find that New Zealand route if you're so inclined. Or look up the extremely large Canadian rail network that is so underrepresented, probably because there is so little passenger and more freight and it seems passenger is more interesting at times.
