Arosa Streaming First Impressions

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by fabristunt, Mar 19, 2021.

  1. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    People care, but these are OLD games, while TSW2 is a goddamn 2020 game, and somehow the PS2 game looking games you mentioned ofted end up looking better than it. While also offering more variety and route creation.

    The reason people moan this much about TSW because they expect much more from it, as it could deliver much more. Because it's a new train simulator compared to the old ones, with much better capabilities and potential, just to be ruined by rushed and buggy releases.
     
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  2. JetWash

    JetWash Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, that is a massive statement. Care to provide even the tiniest bit of proof?

    Didn’t think so.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2021
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  3. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    TS1 can look very realistic, especially some of the newer routes with the correct lighting and set up. Frankly for me, whilst I use both, TS1 has so much content and much more ability to mould it to how you want it. TSW is a long way from that and is unlikely to ever offer the same functionality. TS1 has benefitted from a large amount of third party developers, offering add-ons from obscure Victorian steam locomotives, through classic diesels to modern traction, if we rely on DTG and a small amount of partners there will be nowhere near the variety TS1 offers.
     
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  4. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Let's put it this way: if TSW were to drop consoles, its sales would be cut by 2/3
     
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  5. JetWash

    JetWash Well-Known Member

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    Again...just a little bit of tangible evidence to support the claim?

    ‘Someone said it in some stream’ doesn’t count.
     
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  6. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Oh, lad: Homie don't play that game.

    You're trying for a default "win" by demanding impossible proof: raw sales figures could only be had from DTG's internal financials, which nobody outside the company can access. I am satisfied that if Executive Producer Matt Peddlesden said it publicly, he's not lying.

    And the burden of production is actually on you to produce evidence in support of your proposition, that DTGs sales would be improved by ditching consoles
     
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  7. Delta_Who

    Delta_Who Well-Known Member

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    I think we're waffling off topic a bit here, but I'll bite. More than likely that TSW is selling more via console support and able to expand its market reach (probably one of the key reasons DTG chose unreal for their next gen sims). Question is how much is being compromised here, how much of it is neccessary, and how long-lasting is the platform to players.

    Whilst I sympthasize with the need of balancing out performance, in the case of the Arosa line... there are ways of having more lightweight assets in the game without it looking crude in practice. More aggressive use of billboards, fog, better procedural textures or orthoimagery, more generic rock assets etc. It would have taken more time to develop, but would have been a clear compromise for studio reputation and customer trust instead of the current 51% Steam Positive rating. It's embarrassing and puts alot of people off buying that content.

    And that's where I'm now at with TSW. With the exception of the 313, unless TSW is looking to make a substantial step-up, I'm probably going to be less inclined to support DTG/third parties and purchase more routes. Despite all of Sam's fantastic communication improvements, we're still on the same old of over-promising, under-delivery or impulsively releasing before the route/loco is ready.

    That's really the only bit of advice I can give at this point. Even if it took more time, or charged more to fully flesh out a DLC concept... just slow down DTG/Rivet.
     
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  8. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    And your point is? It doesn't change the fact that it's got many shortcomings even on consoles, and when quite often the excuse "consoles couldn't handle it", "the experience needs to be the same" is used, the PC crows's anger is quite justified. But quite often it's even buggier on consoles, so it's not like they get the special treatment.

    I just don't see your point. Consoles players are a bigger part of sales than PC players. So? Should PC players be greateful or something? Does that mean we should not criticize the game for it's problems and that the PC playerbase's demands are not important? That would just further get the game into the position where it would be even less appealing on PC.
     
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  9. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    People asking for evidence on things. There is no evidence that if the game wasn’t produced for consoles that it would look any better on PC. Absolutely no evidence. It’s just nice to have someone to blame, so blame the consoles. It’s very sad.
     
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  10. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    Well when that's the excuse the developers themselves give, what do you expect? Even though 90% of the time it's just a made up excuse anyway.
     
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  11. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    1. Most people own PCs of console-level performance. So, it doesn't really matter...
    2. TSW never was a well-optimized product. So, it doesn't really matter...

    But! If You look at ancient TSW videos, from the pre-console era (build) - it looks different. The decision about going into consoles was a decision about graphical fidelity downgrade too. Still. Very good decision for TSW's future, which is good for us!

    It's nobody's fault. Business decision more.

    PS Today's Cane Creek pictures are proof, it's not the consoles' fault, because I assume it will work on consoles as well.
     
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  12. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Yes, PC players SHOULD be grateful.

    Have you ever wondered why there isn't a PC-only train sim that doesn't look like crap? It's because there are only a limited number of train sim customers out there, and an even smaller number who own high-end PCs: not nearly enough to support the production costs of a game like TSW.

    Without consoles, TSW would not exist
     
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  13. Redbus

    Redbus Well-Known Member

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    I was sceptical at first but I believe that having TSW available for consoles is a good thing for all, it generates a ton of income and opens the game to more people. However like most software houses do already, DTG and Rivet should be developing routes to run well with great scenery optimised for a high-end PC, then let the game engine scale down the quality for lower-end machines and consoles. Not the other way around, otherwise it will look like lego scenery (*cough* Arosa *cough*). On a positive note, their Swiss rolling stock looks absolutely stunning.
     
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  14. cp1400

    cp1400 Member

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    Hmm so if I buy the same tires for a ferrari and for a lamborghini for the same price, I should get the exact same driving experience? Or will the car engines, build quality etc not matter? What about mobile gaming? Should a phone game have the exact same performance and graphics on PC just because the in app store has the dlc's at the exact same price?
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2021
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  15. volvolover1972

    volvolover1972 Well-Known Member

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    That’s funny. I owned TSW a couple years before it first released on consoles. Guess I’m a time traveler? If you think PC players are somehow obligated to thank console players for their contributions then you’re wrong. We’re all playing the game, buying content, and supporting developers regardless of what we play on.

    By your logic the following is true:

    Without PC players buying TS1 content, TSW would not exist.
     
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  16. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    It’s like pre ray traced minecraft
     
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  17. JetWash

    JetWash Well-Known Member

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    I’m not ‘trying’ for anything. I don’t have a problem with consoles, in fact I own a PS4 and have had many hours of use out of it. Funnily enough, when I bought it and bought GTA V I didn’t get all bent out of shape when Rockstar released that same game on PC with better graphics and more bells and whistles. I don’t remember ever seeing a single player moaning and demanding parity across all platforms. Most people are intelligent enough to realise that console tech is a mere snapshot in time and there will only ever be a finite amount that can be done with that tech. Consoles give you convenience and simplicity at a decent price point. What they don’t give you is the ability to evolve as technology does.

    So no, I’m not ‘trying’. However, I do have a problem with people making completely unverifiable claims in a ‘debate’ and passing them off as unimpeachable fact. I also take issue with people re-writing history to fit their own distorted view on a given subject. I trust you’re aware that TSW was released on PC as a beta alongside TS2017 (in 2016) as TSW CSX:HH and it was only after a year or so that it came to XBOX with GWE. It later came to PS4 with Rapid Transit and NYC. To suggest the game wouldn’t exist without consoles is just plain wrong.

    There is no reason at all why TSW can’t sit happily side by side on all platforms, and take advantage of the tech available on each. I still don’t understand why DTG have made the decision to tie the look and performance of the game to the lowest common denominator, something that no other developer I can think of has ever done. That applies to the PC ‘sub-group’ in exactly the same way. For some reason the ‘recommended’ spec is about 5 years old (in fact, it looks very similar indeed to the recommend spec for TS1) and they are limiting the graphical options available to players on PC artificially. Why? It should also be painfully apparent by now that you DO NOT need a high-end PC to play this game. When even my RTX 2080 TI is a generation old though we need to accept that technology evolves and move with it.

    I will watch with interest as more console owners buy new-gen hardware and start to get slowly exasperated that they are still playing a game designed to run on machines that debuted 8 years ago. You want HMA layers on your PS5? Well, not until they work on the original PS4 you can’t, because to do anything else would be ‘unfair’. We even have a developer who has said publicly that the reason their DLC looks like a dropped blancmange in places is because of last gen console tech, yet people still don’t believe them.

    It’s just so very sad that in almost every facet of modern life people leap into a trench and anyone who isn’t in that trench with them is automatically the enemy to be shot at and flamed constantly, often with false or unverifiable ‘facts’. On that note, I’m genuinely intrigued as to where I’ve ever said, or insinuated, that if DTG dropped consoles their sales would increase? Feel free to ‘quote’ that back to me here if you can find it (although I can save you the trouble looking, you won’t).

    ps Finally, if you really think this looks ‘crap’ then we inhabit different planets...

     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2021
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  18. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    Lol, you really are something. To answer your question, maybe it's because they're all decade old games? If the PC platform itself is not enough to support train simulator development, then how comes we had MSTS, Train, Train Simulator, Run8 and endless other train simulators before, with none of them releasing for consoles? These were all amazing games in their own times, sadly time passed over them. But interestingly they did just fine, even though they were PC only, with the exception of "smaller" titles like Densha de GO, but that's more of an arcade game than simulator.

    So following your logic, without the PC playerbase, train simulators as a genre would not exsist and you should be thankful for PC players. But that's silly. I already explained why consoles player numbers are higher than PC, I don't know why you keep repeating it like the console players are some higher entity because of it. And then you wonder why people here keep bashing on the console players...
     
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  19. ildario77

    ildario77 Well-Known Member

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    Well, I don't have any data about sales on consoles, but if DTG decided to enter this market it's because they thought it was profitable. Anyway, we live in a very small bubble, according to the "rarity" of the unlocked trophies on PS4. Relatively easy to achieve trophies are still flagged as "rare", or even "very rare". This means that TSW players on PS4 are not so many...
     
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  20. Quentin

    Quentin Well-Known Member

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    I'm sure DTG could do that. But at what cost? Would you be prepared to pay, say, 50% more for a superior PC version? I expect DTG, being a serious business, research such questions and have reached their conclusion.
     
  21. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    Enough of this console vs PC debate. It’s getting boring and very repetitive. The game needs BOTH platforms to survive. No platform is better than another.

    What we DO need DTG to do is to abolish or tone down this parity nonsense. PC has always been more flexibility when it comes to adjusting visuals and graphics, and console players are fine with this, as this has been the case for thousands of games over the past 20 or so years.

    So DTG, PLEASE provide PC players with more toggles and/or options for us to change the default settings. One for the TSW Summer update perhaps? Failing that, at least let us manually change values via engine.ini and not hard code things in like shadow draw distance etc.
     
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  22. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

  23. RobSkip

    RobSkip Well-Known Member

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    You appear to have forgotten that TSW did exist without console support for a fair period of time...
     
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  24. WaveyDavey

    WaveyDavey Well-Known Member

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    Approx 1 year.


    TSW CSX Heavy Haul March 2017

    TSW Founders Edition March 2018.
     
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  25. geloxo

    geloxo Well-Known Member

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    Going back to the original topic I have being testing the route today. I found it very interesting and challenging and really different to what we have so far. But I have observed a quite bizarre behaviour: the FPS are more of less stable on the whole route but they drop very noticeably on the curves with biggest gradients, and only on those curves, specially if their radius is very short. But for instance this is not happening at the switches or stations. Indeed game turns very choppy at those short radius curves. I think this could be caused by the tracks themselves, as due to the nature of the track layout the rail spline is reproduced every few sleepers. In the pics below you can see that distance between track curvature segments is really short.

    TS2Prototype-Win64-Shipping 2021-03-28 03-28-43.png

    TS2Prototype-Win64-Shipping 2021-03-28 03-12-50.png

    I don´t know if this causes an overload on the physics calculation, on the 3D rendering or on both, but I doubt the problem is related to scenery itself as there are routes with heavy scenery and terrain meshes like Sand Patch where this is not happening. Indeed in Arosa itself the areas with short radius curves but regular gradients behave very well. Can you confirm if you see the same behaviour as well? Maybe this helps to improve the bad results many people is having in terms of performance with this route. I remember having exactly the same problem years ago with Trainz when very detailed tracks splines where used in curves and their segments where repeated very shortly as in Arosa.

    But overall I think this is a really nice route, interesting to drive and located in a charming environment. The rolling stock has this special classic touch that I like a lot as well.

    Cheers
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2021
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  26. geloxo

    geloxo Well-Known Member

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    Ok, I found one of the guilty actors: grass.densityScale. Using any value higher than default setting (grass.densityScale=1) has a severe impact on performance. It looks this route (and also Isle of Wight) use a quite dense grass layout compared to the rest of routes, so increasing grass density in engine.ini is not a good idea. Even the default setting is quite demanding for Arosa. I made some dynamic testing disabling grass completely in the problematic areas when the FPS dropped and they instantly went back to normal values as soon as grass density was reduced or disabled completely. Maybe it´s a good idea if developers can take a look on this as well.

    Cheers
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2021
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  27. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    You really don't get it, do you?

    Building TSW and its routes and locos is an order (or orders) of magnitude more difficult than TS; that means an order or more of magnitude more man-hours to make. Developer man-hours cost money, everything in TSW costs a lot more money to produce. That cannot happen unless sales revenue is sufficient to cover production costs, and that is not possible on PC alone. Go look at the industry figures; across all videogaming, PC is a small fraction of the console market (The most successful entertainment product launch in history, GTAV, didn't even include a PC version!)

    Trainz, Run8, TSC etc etc remain stuck in a 2000s time-warp because there simply are not enough train sim purchasers on PC alone to make an upgrade to modern 3D standards economically feasible. TSW is economically feasible because it takes advantage of the much bigger, more lucrative console market, and only for that reason.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2021
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  28. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    like small children :D who cares - everybody can choose a platform they like

    PS This is a question from the cycle, which is better - pears or apples, and without which of these fruits the world could not exist (of course, apples and consoles are absolutely unnecessary like we all know...) :D
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 30, 2021
  29. Cloadmcally

    Cloadmcally Active Member

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    Well this has spiraled from being a stream discussion.. :D

    However my biggest issues with arosa are the timetable, the buggy signalling/dispatcher interaction, the fact that when you brake with dynamic brakes and air brakes the horn does not produce noise, and that you are unable to accelerate unless you firts come to a complete stop. The fact that the line doesn't look as good as it should really is something that personally doesn't bother me as much as these gameplay breaking bugs!
     
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  30. fabristunt

    fabristunt Well-Known Member

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    I agree: the poor distant scenery is really the least important issue, there are many gameplay breaking bugs that are more important.
     
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  31. volvolover1972

    volvolover1972 Well-Known Member

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    I think the timetable issue is not getting enough attention. In fact, there should be extra room in the timetable to take into account if you need to stop at the request stops. Right now it seems like you have to slam it down the mountain to even have a chance to keeping to the schedule without stopping at the request stops.
     
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  32. RailRoadEngineer

    RailRoadEngineer Member

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    What now I think is PC players will be compromised even if TSW 3 4 5 6 7 x x x get releeased, PC players will never see an editor.

    End of story for myself.
     
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  33. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    Yet TSW still started with a PC only release in the first year, so apparently the PC crowd was still enough to jumpstart the project. So you're still talking nonsense. And if the PC playerbase is the minority, then why are you here, in the PC Discussion forum? Obviously the PS4 or XBox discussion forums should have more people, since they're the majority and the ones keeping us alive, right? So I suppose it must be much better there!

    I also don't get what you mean by GTA V. It did have a separate PC release. So again, you just keep talking nonsense.

    At the end I still don't see your point. Console player numbers are higher than PC player numbers? Sure, possible, noone is denying that. But to imply that because of this PC players should be grateful for console players for some reason, is just silly. What makes you think a PC exclusive release wouldn't be economically feasable, even though all the other train simulator releases in the past have been? Yes, the other train simulators mentioned above are old, but do you think softwares just grew on trees in the 2000s? They were all new products in their time, with new technologies, and all of them required development. Yet for some strange reason they all survived by being PC only releases, interesting.

    -- Now back to topic --
    As for the curved rails on the line, I think that's just the way it's rendered, but I doubt the physics engine also calculates them by being short straight sections. And simply a few more rail segments shouldn't have any impact on performance. If it would, then yards with several tracks would be a game killer.
     
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  34. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    I AM a PC player. I just happen not to be a PC bigot.
    I don't think you recognize the economic realities of a niche market, nor the next level development costs of TSW compared to the older generation of train sims. I think Maik or one of the other 3rd party devs coulsd set you straight on that latter point.

    PS: GTA V launched in November 2013 for PS3 and XBox 360 only, and scored the biggest opening weekend of any entertainment product in history, including movies. The PC port wasn't released for another year and a half, in April 2015 following the PS4 and XBox One versions. Rockstar spent 265 million USD developing the game, and didn't think the PC market was more than an afterthought.
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2021
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  35. Jinoss17

    Jinoss17 Well-Known Member

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    So we will never get rid of the consoles ballast ... let's just hope that DTG focuses on Playstation 5 hardware in the next products.
     
  36. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    likewise console players will never be rid of the PC snobs
     
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  37. Jinoss17

    Jinoss17 Well-Known Member

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    Snobs? I'm speaking facts.
     
  38. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    You're speaking the "facts" that consoles are "ballast"? Economically it's quite the reverse: PCs are the ballast.

    In terms of global game sales, PC is a pimple on the butt of consoles. Yes, you may be proud of the fact that we have to spend shedloads of money on a 12 to 18 month cycle to stay ahead of the silicon curve and be able keep bragging about our framerates; your gaming rig may be the equivalent of a Lamborghini.... but the auto market is owned by the Fords and Toyotas.
     
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  39. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    Because who would buy the same game three times? GTA V would've been a best seller even if it was PC only, I mean it's GTA for god's sake. But there is a reason the release order was old consoles -> new consoles -> PC. That way most people buy it for PS3 and XBox 360 when it first releases, then many buy it again for the new consoles, and some buy again for PC (and those who patiently waited for a PC release). This way they sold it for 3 markets. Who would've bought it for PS3 and XBox 360 if it released on new consoles and PC straight away? Not many people. What I'm saying is, there is a reason the PC release was choosen to be the last.

    I also have to say, it's not about being a PC snob. Even though I don't understand why anyone would go for a console, as for me it looks like a horrible deal overall, but I accept it. But I don't see PC players telling consoles players to be grateful for them for supporting the train simulator industry for a decade before TSW arrived to consoles.

    Long story short, don't get me wrong. I'm happy TSW is on consoles, as the bigger the market is, the better. And I'm not going to deny the positive economical effects of console sales. But don't try to tell me TSW couldn't have survived just as well with a PC only release, when a PC only release jumpstarted the whole project to begin with.
     
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  40. Jinoss17

    Jinoss17 Well-Known Member

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    This. In my view I wouldn't say I'm happy TSW is on consoles: I just would say I don't care. The only thing I care is that DTG decided for unknown reasons to make the gameplay identical between consoles and PC players which to me is unfair.

    Furthermore I'm still waiting to see the sources telling that TSW survived thanks to consoles...

    And as I said before, given the fact that DTG or Rivet still won't change this wrong attitude, I'm asking why the new DLC are not based on PS5 hardware which is hugely more powerful and probably would give PC players more features and decent graphics.
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2021
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  41. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    Funny comparison, as the new car market is a goddamn ripoff to the customers. And so is the gaming console market in my eyes.

    As for the money aspect, I've bought my PC 6 years ago. And it's still holding up just fine, even though it was considered a medium or low-mdeium tier PC even when I bought it. And during this 6 years, I had access to cheaper game prices compared to console game prices, and I didn't have to pay monthly to be able to play online.
     
  42. Callum B.

    Callum B. Well-Known Member

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    These two lines of thought are contradictory. If each user only buys the game once, for their system of choice, then it would not matter the release order in which Rockstar launched the game on platforms. Someone who will only buy the game once could buy it for their PS3, or they could upgrade to PS4/PC and buy a single copy for their new system instead of their old system. In any case, the outcome for Rockstar is the same: one person purchased one copy.

    Game software developers like to recoup development costs as soon as possible. This means targeting the largest audiences first. In the case of GTA V, which came out during the transitionary period between Gen 7 and Gen 8 consoles, Xbox 360 and PS3 were king (well, we'll set aside the Wii for this discussion). Of course Rockstar would launch the game for their largest demographic first, and release the Gen 8 version later. The Gen 7 consoles were where all the money was at, at the time. They made the choice to release it to the most lucrative market as soon as possible, and target smaller audiences later.

    GTA V sold 11.2 million copies on consoles within a day of its launch. It only sold 2 million copies on PC after a month.

    Cheers
     
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  43. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    When GTA V launched the next-gen consoles weren't out yet. Rockstar did the ports after PS4 and XBox one released. As to wether they would have bought it on console if there was a PC release? Lots and lots and lots of people (incidentally, many players including me upgraded their 360 version of GTAV to XB1 eventually. But change to PC? Why would they?

    The thrust of what I'm saying is that R*expected, correctly that 7th-gen console sales would cover their massive investment, with no need to add PCs.

    First off, because every time you buy a game for Xbox One, or Playstation 4, you know it will run on your hardware. No need for a new graphics card or more RAM or updated drivers or any of the cost and hassle of PC- and I do mean hassle and cost. Every year to year and a half we PC gamers have to upgrade our gaming systems or replace them outright, because last year's hot rod is this year's jalopy and next year's junker. Console gaming simply put is simpler, and generally works better for shooters, RPGs and any sort of game with a limited command set. Also, you're viewing it on a nice big widescreen TV, not a desktop monitor or laptop screen; and run it through their sound system, not computer speakers. I only use PC for things like TSW where a keyboard is really necessary given the wide array of command inputs,* or games like Atlantic Fleet or the Total War series which aren't on console at all.

    As for the "grateful" business: I'm simply telling the PC supremacists that their dream of tossing the console "ballast" over the side is completely unrealistic, because TSW could not exist without the console market. Given the time and expense of developing TSW content, an integer multiple of the time and expense of developing TS content, there aren't enough PC players out there for DTG to recoup their costs from PC alone.

    Aren't you overlooking somebody? The nontrivial number of our PC brethren who aren't playing on this year's Ultratron Pro gaming PC, and have rather more modest hardware? In many cases, less potent than 7th gen consoles?

    I also query your rather idiosyncratic use of "unfair." Unfair how, and to whom, and why? Unfair to high-end PC owners because they "deserve" better than console peasants? (Given that we generally pay less for TSW DLC than console guys do, maybe they "deserve" the upgraded versions)
    Because only a very small number of people right now actually own PS5s and Series Xs; they're harder to get than Covid vaccinations. A "PS5 only" release would sell next to nothing, at least for this year.

    ---------------
    *I started playing TSW on console, and changed over to PC not because of 10 extra frames per second, but because a gaming controller is a lousy way to drive a train
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2021
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  44. Jinoss17

    Jinoss17 Well-Known Member

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    That was in 2013.

    Then I expect 2022 dlc will be based on PS5 hardware. I just hope the excuse of "not every player has PS5 and gameplay must be the same for everybody" will be binned.
     
  45. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. The PC crowd was pretty much (or almost, if we only count the first month) 10% of the overal sales even after 2 years of the original launch. That's pretty impressive, if you ask me.

    Looking back, my wording was a bit off, I agree. But what I meant is that Rockstar also improved the releases for the newer consoles and PC, so some people had a reason to rebuy it. If it were released on newer consoles or PC first, the old consoles would've have generated 11.2 million copies by themselves. My point is that GTA V would've probably generated 10 million copies sold regardless of platform, because it's GTA after all, so it's not a great comparison for a game with smaller audience like TSW.

    And as I keep mentioning every time the console vs PC player numbers argument comes up, on PC there are many train simulator alternatives that people prefer over TSW, while on console it's pretty much the only train simulator, no wonder the console player numbers are higher. Which is why I keep saying, it they improved it more to make it more appealing over the other, older train simulators, the PC numbers would probably also be much higher. But currently most PC players are stuck playing TS, Trainz and other stuff, as those games have editors and their favorite routes.
     
  46. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Um, it took 30 days for PC sales to reach 1/5 of a single day's console sales. That works out to 0.6%

    Again, it all comes down to money. If routes and locos for TSW could be produced as quickly and cheaply as they are for TS1, then the PC market alone could support it. But it can't, because they can't.
     
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  47. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, but you're already wrong in your first argument. How many times do console releases struggle to run on the console they were released on? I mean, just look at the recent case of Cyberpunk, for example... Of course, this is not the console's fault. What you said is right, that would be the greatest advantage of consoles, but sadly it's often not the reality. Games often release and run very poor on base consoles.

    As for heaving to upgrade your PC every year? I bought my PC 6 years ago, and I havn't touched it since and it still runs everything great. And it wasn't an expensive monster machine even when I bought it, just a casual medium-tier gaming PC.

    And you're really trying to tell me that console works better for shooters, when aiming with a controller is so hard that pretty much every console shooter needs aim assistance impelented to be playable? And in every cross-platform shooter game the consoles players keep whining because PC players have an advantage over them because it's hundred times easier to aim with a mouse - and they're right, cross platform shooting games are unfair.

    As for your last point, you can also get a big screen and a good sound system for PC as well. My little brother literally has a big TV plugged in as a monitor for his PC. And the big screen TV by itself doesn't mean much when you're watching it from the other side of the room, several meters away from the couch, as they tend to do.

    Let me say though, I'm not trying to "toss away the console ballast", I never agreed with that statement. As I said, I'm happy the game is on consoles as well, it's nice to know the console community also has access to Train Sim World. But the "be grateful for the console community" remark was pretty silly.
     
  48. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    Again, 2 years after the original release. Every game's or movie's sales are obviously the best on the first release. And the PC release was also at different times on different platforms like Steam, Epic or Rockstar Launcher.
     
  49. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    That would require the launch of a TSW3, for 9th-gen consoles and PC only, and require all console players to buy the new version. Since TSW2 is 8th-gen compatible, any DLC sold as being for TSW2 has to be also. Actually all of us would be forced to buy TSW3, to be fair...
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2021
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  50. Callum B.

    Callum B. Well-Known Member

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    Yes, so you must wonder why Rockstar waited until 2015 to release the PC port if they believed that market to be the most lucrative.

    By the time GTA V arrived on PC, the game had already sold over 45 million units. That makes PC's contribution after a month less than 5%.

    Cheers
     

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