Alan Thomson Sim Subscription

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by inversnecky, Apr 5, 2021.

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  1. dunkrez

    dunkrez Well-Known Member

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    There are two choices here:

    1) Support ATS with a subscription, which is an awesome community hub, excellent software resource, great place to showcase new talented developers and even beer nights to enjoy on Twitch.
    2) Don't support ATS with a subscription - you still get to join in with most of the above but don't get the perks of a sub.

    That's quite inclusive really.

    It is what it is.
     
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  2. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    Not sure about the "awesome community hub" - you see reskins and somebody has a problem so they ask a question - the chances of a reply seem to depend on the person who uploaded the file.
     
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  3. dunkrez

    dunkrez Well-Known Member

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    Sure, depends from dev to dev, but to be fair, it's all available without a sub, so any support is technically free. As it's free, much kudos to the devs that choose to help and assist with any issues.

    Awesome community hub.
     
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  4. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    So do people who have a Sub get better support for Reskins and the like?
     
  5. SJA

    SJA Active Member

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    It was worth it to me as the London-Edinburgh, Missing Link and Leeds Lines alone provide enough scenario scope for me personally. Literally many hundreds of hours of enjoyment. Although I selected the non auto renew option so if my sub runs out before the Missing Link is complete I will obviously have the opportunity to think about whether I want another one, and to see what else has been added to subware to make it worth it.

    Having said that though, as others have pointed out it's a case of the more content you have, the better. I've collected most of the UK content down the years so my outlay is limited to the odd new DTG/JT route or new AP packs, which come out every 2-4 months. I don't have "splurges" on multiple pieces of content any more.
     
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  6. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    It would be better if the APS Sub included a Route.
     
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  7. dunkrez

    dunkrez Well-Known Member

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    Totally agree Peter, would be the perfect reward for subscribing.
     
  8. Reef

    Reef Well-Known Member

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    1) Do all this for free
    2) Do all the above still but pay £33

    :D:D:D

    Duncan we get it, you've been a huge fan of ATS since before you came here, you uploaded your HST fix there and you've had a fair (not outstanding mind, but fair) amount of downloads for it, something you appear to closely monitor and gauge as some sort of yardstick and justification for your efforts (you shouldn't btw but that's a whole different discussion).

    But seriously (and sorry if you find this offensive, as it's not intended to be) your argument above is laughable.

    I'll break it down..
    Awesome community hub - Not really no, it has hardly any traffic, it's practically dead, here at DTG on the other hand...
    Excellent software resource - Umm, it's got a few routes, OHLE, reskins and a fair amount of scenarios (something I'm personally not interested in). Compared to UKTS and even some of the one man bands (MajorWales for example) it's hardly top of the list is it (though it's prices are)..
    Great place to showcase talented developers - Uhh I think you'll find FaceBook has cornered that market..
    Twitch- come on DR, I can watch and enjoy Alan on Twitch/Youtube the same as any ATS sub does/can, daft to even bring that up tbh..

    I'm NOT saying the sub wall of ATS is a bad thing, all I'm saying is the overly expensive yearly sub wall is a really bad thing, for us, the end user!
     
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  9. ntypeman

    ntypeman Well-Known Member

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    Well said Reef, well said...
     
  10. SJA

    SJA Active Member

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    So ultimately the value is as defined by the user :) If you're not into all of the London-Edinburgh merge, Missing Link, Leeds Lines and the OHLE, or you would simply need to spend a fortune on the requirements to get them on top of the £33, it is likely not worth it to you unless you have a lot more disposable income than most.
    Not for a few scenario packs (which you may need a whole load more payware requirements for) and small discounts off JT routes anyway.

    There are some decent freebies there that don't require a sub (again, lots of requirements). I personally really enjoyed Alex55's version of Euston-Birmingham, which also has the Northampton Loop and a basic implementation of the Bakerloo, taking its scenario scope significantly beyond that of the DTG/Steam version.
     
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  11. dunkrez

    dunkrez Well-Known Member

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    Gauging interest in work I've completed is part of what makes it worth the effort for me... and why not? It's great to see others getting joy out of what I create. It's a fair yardstick. I uploaded with a view that if 20 people got some joy out of it, I'd be pleased. So passing 1600 users is quite the accomplishment.

    For me, personally, the community has been great. During lockdown it's been a great alternative to a night down at the local. I'm sure there are many others that feel the same way. The generosity of people that give during ATS streams is quite something. Everyone is made to feel welcome and included. The ATS community includes most of the legends that bring you great content, some of it is for sale (as it should be) and some of it is done for the love of train simulation, and is gratis.

    From my point of view, it is an excellent software resource, if you have a good look through everything on offer. Perhaps it caters more to the whale than the tiddlers. Whether you like it or not, ATS is DTG and AP's finest unofficial saleman. And you can absolutely tell that Alan genuinely cares about the software. It's written all over his face on videos and streams.

    If you want to support a movement, and to see it flourish, you have to put your hand in your wallet generally. For some people that might be their local football club.

    Everyone is entitled to an opinion - I just don't get the axe grinding over a small subscription fee.

    Glad to have brought you some happiness with my laughable argument Reef.
     
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  12. Reef

    Reef Well-Known Member

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    £33 a year for such little content is NOT value for money and is NOT small, it is NOT end user supportive or satisfactory.

    If you wish to support Alan by giving him £33 a year sub or donating £500 on a live stream then good for you, if you can afford it and it suits you then all the power to you.

    However do NOT tell me it's great value for everyone because that's BS and you know it!
     
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  13. dunkrez

    dunkrez Well-Known Member

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    Contextually, after battling through family courts in 2019 - 2020 and dropping over £15k to ensure the safegaurding of my child, £33 is but a pin prick to support something I get a lot out of.

    It's all relative.
     
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  14. SJA

    SJA Active Member

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    I think that sums it up. If you've already spent £1000+ on mostly UK TSxx content and dropped another grand on a computer to play it on, then £33 is pennies by comparison when considering your prior investment into the hobby... And you will get more out of the £33 because the flagship products behind the sub wall are accessible by way of you having what they need to run.
     
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  15. dunkrez

    dunkrez Well-Known Member

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    Bang on SJA, and thank you. I worked damned hard to have the privilege of investing so heavily in TS, and I've hoovered most things up, and set about creating my own stuff. That £33 opens up so much more on top of a lifetime's worth of routes and locos. I even buy some of them just to collect them because I might like the model, or just want to support the Indie dev that made something. What goes around comes around, all of us that support TS will keep it flourishing. Software engineering is expensive business and time consuming, and considering what a niche train simulation is, the costs are already dirt cheap, relatively.
     
  16. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    It is all relative to what you are able to spend on the hobby.
    I have to watch the pennies - manage to spend under £30 on the latest sales - most of which went on AP product
     
  17. Reef

    Reef Well-Known Member

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    Which is great but you weren't being contextual in your original post that led to our little "tête-à-tête"..

    You like ATS you have no problem with the yearly (only) sub option, that's great... For you!

    But when you spout **** like
    when this is the reality...
    Image2.jpg

    I recommend a read of Sophias post by the way very insightful look at cosmetics, I may even shave my beard off to try her product she's spam advertising..

    The reality is the forum is barely active, hardly the "awesome community" picture you were plying is it?

    I've nothing against you Duncan genuinely, but I cannot stand by when you try to sell ATS as the pearl within the oyster when its merely an expensive grain of sand.

    This is my last comment on this subject as I dare not trigger another three day late lecture off of Natalie regarding "playing nice with the other children".

    Enjoy your sub, you've paid for it you enjoy it, as I said before... I'll pass.

    Take care and be well. :)
     
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  18. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    And there is the catch. You can download a great free route, but not play it. Or have to spend tons of time editing stuff, which is especially annoying for a paid pack where the designer ought to try to be inviting to all players, not a niche, to make the most bang for the time spent.. I'm still missing a few requirements for Cambridge, which would still not be free, and converts to about $17 CAD during a subscription anyway (I assume it's half price), which is more than I've paid for most routes on Steam without a subscription anyway. So frankly, I don't know if it's that good a deal.

    Then there are the working timetable scenarios (here is an example). Nice, actual timetables. Not nice, I spent hundreds in CAD on trains but am still missing another $100 or so worth of trains needed for that pack. And you want me to pay $8 CAD for it? Not cool. If I have to edit it, it's not worth buying, and I would not consider it of value. That said, I'll still buy a JT route where a few scenarios need an AP train because there's still stuff I can play, but this is an example where THE ENTIRE PACK needs five train packs I'm missing. The only ones I could possibly drive, albeit by replacing stock everywhere else on the route, is the pair for 6Z18 12:35 Hither Green to Allington Stone Terminal. That is not worth $8. By the time I have all the trains, there will be a million free scenarios for me to play anyway, so I will not care about these packs.

    In other words, having so many requirements and charging for it, in my view, means either you are well-known as a good scenario designer, or you are just shooting yourself in the foot. I'll assume it's the former for him to keep charging for his work.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2021
  19. dunkrez

    dunkrez Well-Known Member

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    It's not the for the forums Reef, you have to look a little deeper. It's the TS community. The AP guys, JT guys, DTG guys, DP Simulation, other notable TS devs, train drivers, train simmers all use ATS as a reference point for a little mixing. It's a good crowd and I'm grateful to be a part of it.

    As a single parent, who can't get out as much as I'd like, I find this all invaluable. To me and many others, it is a pearl. To you, it's an expensive grain of sand.

    Enjoy your ATS free life Reef, I'll treasure the awesome community of like minded devs that I've been lucky to find :)
     
  20. ntypeman

    ntypeman Well-Known Member

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    If the sub fees were say £20 per year, I'd say I'd be tempted but to me £33 is out of my comfort zone...

    Surely though, if ATS dropped their sub fees, would it not have a positive effect??? I don't doubt that Initially ATS would take a hit revenue wise, but down the road if the subscription was more affordable would more people not subscribe??? It's a business model that works... I work as a bus driver & when the garage / company I work at was bought out by one of the large groups, the first thing they did was to slash fares... What happened next??? Revenue suddenly increased... Drastically...

    Just saying that's all...
     
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  21. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    _"Surely though, if ATS dropped their sub fees, would it not have a positive effect???"_ I'm sure it's been suggested many times. Enough people must be paying the £33 for him to not do it.
     
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  22. Robbo13

    Robbo13 Active Member

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    I've uploaded at least 35 scenarios to ATS, all freeware, and to see the replies you get from people does make it all worth while. When people post pictures of your scenario in the Facebook group, it does give you a sense of pride. You can tell that the community stick together.

    Your image Reef of the forums on ATS does not meaning anything- it is just someone trolling. You get that on any forum, probably even on here, but these forums are checked more often than the ATS forum.

    For what you get for your money, I am happy paying the £33 a month.

    If your not happy with ATS that's your own opinion, no point in arguing on here. Alan and Co. created this business/website as a place to share your ideas/routes/reskins/scenarios etc. and it seems a lot of people like it and are willing to pay the £33 a month.

    When you said the community is dead is completely wrong and you know it is.
     
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  23. Reef

    Reef Well-Known Member

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    I never said that, stop making things up.
     
  24. Robbo13

    Robbo13 Active Member

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    Ok then what did you mean by this?
     
  25. Reef

    Reef Well-Known Member

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    Practically

    Image3.jpg

    Clear enough now, are we done?
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2021
  26. Robbo13

    Robbo13 Active Member

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    Nearly or almost then? Well I can tell you it's now where near that, it's a very active community, just look at the amount of uploads a day. If you were in the Facebook group you would also find it is very active in there- so nowhere near dead really.

    Also regarding your second post, not many use the forums as there is a Facebook group, where you are much more likely to get a reply.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2021
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  27. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    33 pounds is $57.32 in CAD presently, or about $4.75 a month. Do you know how many trains I bought, each, for less than that in the last sale? To me, a sub is literally a one time thing. If you want the full Missing Route route, it makes sense to wait until it's about to release the final phase, then get it. I can live without Leeds Line and a bunch of scenarios I cannot play anyway, for the time being.
     
  28. SJA

    SJA Active Member

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    That has always been Alan T's strength. He is a good networker who brings devs and content creators together (plus some railway staff), which has lead to some very enjoyable additions to the TS pool of content. I'm sure a few must have baulked at the idea of modelling some of those West Midlands areas, such as those around Wolverhampton. But they got it done.

    However, this thread has become very political I suspect, and that always leads to the digging in of heels :D People can, if they wish, think I am a mug for paying a sub fee (which he does sometimes run discounted for the odd couple of days, in line with other TS sellers having sales) to access ATS content.

    But I've had as much enjoyment out of WCML Missing Link, the Leeds Lines and the ECML merge as many happy buyers will have had from the £29.50 SSS Stainmore route, for example (which I have only heard good things about, to be fair - I picked that example purely based on similar pricing and perceived value to those who have it and love it - sorry SSS team :D).
     
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  29. Reef

    Reef Well-Known Member

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    Oh so that's what you pay £33 for.. A facebook group.. Got it. Do you get banned from the group if your sub expires?
     
  30. Robbo13

    Robbo13 Active Member

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    No of course not, have you not seen what others have said. Your getting ridiculous now, I'm not going to bother trying to deal with someone who just keeps arguing back. You don't want to pay the £33, that's fine, one person not paying it is not a big deal.
     
  31. Reef

    Reef Well-Known Member

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    It has not become political at all, I do not dislike Alan or any of his steadfast sub supporters, I bowed out but people just keep on quoting me back in requiring a response.

    ALL I am against is paying £33 yearly, someone mentioned £20 and if I'm honest I may have succumbed to that if that was the price but it isn't.

    Financial, not Political!
     
  32. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    OK, this comment is cynical. Sorry. I know Twitch subs expiring will get you banned from their sub-only Discord groups, but using this as a reason to not subscribe is childish. My own reasons are financial, personally, and the fact that I literally cannot use much over there. Even after my AP purchase.
     
  33. Reef

    Reef Well-Known Member

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    If by being ridiculous you mean ridiculing you then , yeah, maybe.
    Oh sorry didn't realise you butted in halfway through a thread just to have a one sided argument with me, so sorry please forgive..
    Which is what I've being saying all along, have you not seen what I've said? You're getting ridiculous now..

    :D
     
  34. Reef

    Reef Well-Known Member

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    Facetious not cynical ;)
     
  35. Reef

    Reef Well-Known Member

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    See what I mean btw?
     
  36. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    Children, please continue in DMs. Let's not keep this up here.
     
  37. dunkrez

    dunkrez Well-Known Member

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    I thought that the ECML merge was worth the £33 alone. That's what hooked me in. I'm looking forward to the WCML merge too.

    Everything else was the most unexpected and at times quite wonderful bonus.

    As with everything in life, if it isn't your cup of tea, move along and carry on, onwards and upwards.
     
  38. Robbo13

    Robbo13 Active Member

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    Well I didn't butt in halfway through, you'll notice one of the first replies is mine. Apology accepted.

    Yes I have seen what you said, but everytime someone says something your always there replying saying it's not worth it. Wouldn't say I'm the one getting ridiculous here.

    Anyway not bothering with you now, end of conversation.
     
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  39. Reef

    Reef Well-Known Member

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    Read my last, Mr self appointed Moderator
     
  40. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    Fair enough! What is the timing on the WCML merge, and do we know if anything beyond payware assets will be required? I have to figure out if I'll be able to run these beefy merged routes.

    Also, when does Alan have these discounts? No way am I paying $57 in one shot for a subscription.
    I will DM you on this. I am not trying to be a moderator, just saying that people probably don't want to see you guys fighting here.
     
  41. Reef

    Reef Well-Known Member

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    Have a great evening. :)
     
  42. Robbo13

    Robbo13 Active Member

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    There was an offer on last month, though I don't know if that was for a new sub or a re-sub.
     
  43. Robbo13

    Robbo13 Active Member

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    Yeah you have a great evening too.
     
  44. Reef

    Reef Well-Known Member

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    Yep, fair point btw, I concede that (and people say I never admit when I'm wrong). ;)
     
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  45. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    Hmm. I suppose I can always e-mail and ask, though I don't expect I'd get any kind of answer.
     
  46. Reef

    Reef Well-Known Member

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    So.. OHLE, is it worth it because I genuinely have my eye on it, thinking about electrifying the SWC from Brizzy to Caerdydd
     
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  47. dunkrez

    dunkrez Well-Known Member

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    £33 is 3 beers in a Soho bar, 3 decent Botanic cocktails, or 6 pints of Guiness down at the Manners. It's a meal for two at a cheap restaurant. It's one KFC treat for a family of four.

    It's also the price to drive all the way from kings cross to Edinburgh in a single run. Quite tasty in an AP enhanced 91, or a dunkrez improved HST cab :cool:

    We're all enthusiasts, we all share the same love of railways. I wish the hobby were more accessible. If the numbers were higher, the prices would be lower. So, if we all make the effort to naturally sell what we've found, perhaps others will take the hobby up too. In fighting over pennies will not achieve that goal.

    You're all railways fans, and that's ace.
     
  48. dunkrez

    dunkrez Well-Known Member

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    Speedypete did a great job of the OHLE. He's a nice guy too :)
     
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  49. inversnecky

    inversnecky Well-Known Member

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    Jeepers, what have I started?! [Fights desperately to stuff worms back into the can!]

    I presume the "ATS community" is more the Facebook page than the low traffic forum?

    In that original link, there's about 57 items - about 3 or 4 routes (links or merges) and the rest are scenarios.

    I was trying to find what is included in the sub, but found it by clicking upgrade:

    • Full and unlimited access to subscription only downloads such as the ECML Merge, WCML Midlands & Northwest and many others
    • Full and unlimited access to free downloads
    • Access to the ATS Install tool to install downloaded 3rd party add-ons with ease
    • Subscriber special discounts throughout the year
    • Up to 10 % off TS Controllers products
    • Up to 10% off 3rd party payware
    • Up to 50% off Alan Thomson Simulation payware
    • You will be supporting developers of user generated content as part of the subscription is returned to the developer of subscription products
    • 12 month access with no obligation to renew

     
  50. inversnecky

    inversnecky Well-Known Member

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    As I mentioned in discussion about the Northern Lines Electric, I was initially balking at spending a tenner on the ATS OHLE, but I have to say I'm very impressed.
     
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