Alan Thomson Sim Subscription

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by inversnecky, Apr 5, 2021.

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  1. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    Right now, one of the only Suburban Glasgow scenarios I could drive from that site is sub-only. Nasty.
     
  2. dunkrez

    dunkrez Well-Known Member

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    Nowhere else offers the full run of the ECML.

    Nice :)
     
  3. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    And if anyone else ever tries, ATS will probably go after them because it's part of their subware.
     
  4. dunkrez

    dunkrez Well-Known Member

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    Probably relies on probability, which may or may not happen, so it's just pure foof.

    Just enjoy what you like mate :D
     
  5. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    Yes. Nothing else needs to be said.
     
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  6. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    Nonsense! I demand more!

    ...and I'm being told there is nothing more.

    I've heard something about lag around Crewe in Missing Link, however. I assume this pack is in use there. I wonder if -fastload improved it.
     
  7. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    Sure, but it's not solely down to Speedy Pete's OHLE. It's just rammed in that location. Just like WCML South gets a bit choppy around Wembley. Overall, the ATS OHLE upgrade is great.
     
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  8. inversnecky

    inversnecky Well-Known Member

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    Is this a separate item just to install third party software, such as AP stuff? Not something that loads ATS stuff?

    Has anyone had and cancelled an ATS able to confirm anything acquired still works fine?

    (Looking at one route’s scenarios, the amount of dependencies required would likely cost over ten times the cost of the route itself.)
     
  9. Reef

    Reef Well-Known Member

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    The ATS installer is (afaik) just for ATS's own products (and GoldStarTrain's Tamper and MVP) you download this when you purchase an item and it then asks you to log in and password your account details, this then checks against your purchases and if everything is in order then it'll download the contents files and install it. There is no limit on usage or re-downloads of a bought purchase

    If it's subware content then it's basically going to check you still have an active subscription before commencing the download and install of the actual product, if you no longer have an active subscription for subware content then the ATS installer would fail at this stage with some sort of "you don't have access" message.

    Content that's already installed in your game will still work as it did prior to your subscription running out, however if there's an update or patch then you won't be able to get it for any of your subware content (until you resub of course).

    This is what I'm led to believe is the case and how it works regarding the subware I can't verify that personally because I haven't got an expired subscription.
     
  10. sparraboy

    sparraboy Member

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    I don't see why he doesn't just charge for the base route and any major upgrades outside of a bug demand a couple of £ extra. I'm still holding back on paying out £30 and then more on top and then maybe more for an upgrade if it 'happened' to come out after my years sub had run out. I can gather reading the various posts regarding this that it would be preferable for most users to have a monthly sub but then of course AT will only have 1 months subs from most subscribers who would rinse the site of everything they could in that month. It seems like a no win situation for both parties. But to charge £30 then more on top for subware is not how this should work, we spend enough time moaning about how DTG run their business re. paying 3 times for the same route that there must be a better way of selling routes.

    I would much prefer that major route/merge was made and we were charged a fair sum for the work carried out and it was pretty much complete. If I knew how to make/merge I would spend a year/2 working it then charge the £50/60 to make it worth my while. If it didn't sell then that would be my own fault but I'd rather that than piecemeal a route where I could dictate when and how much people were going to pay and decide if it were ever to be completed. Subware is fine if it's transparent as to what you are getting and there are no hidden costs.
     
  11. 390001

    390001 Well-Known Member

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    I have a sub and I think it is worth it. I saved more than I paid for the sub with the latest Black Friday sale which lasted a week and picked up the payware routes which has the Black Friday bundle discount and then a sub discount on top of that. Got £50 worth of routes for £12 that is a bargain and I am still in “profit” after paying out for the sub.
    You also get discounts on the other payware as well.

    it’s swings and roundabouts some people like it some don’t for me it’s Less than £3 a month that’s worth it for me. I get access to sub only routes and content and I am also contributing to the running of the site to keep it active.

    no doubt someone will be along shortly giving his 2cents worth because they have this issue with anyone charging for the upkeep of said website and have an issue with the person behind the website. Best thing I would do is add up the cost you would save if you took out a sub and if it is a larger saving than the price of a sub you will find the value inside it.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2023
  12. Reef

    Reef Well-Known Member

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    Tbf to Alan and ATS everything behind the subwall is completely transparent, you can see everything that is available and every price reduction whether it's own content, 3rd party content (like the JT stuff) or Hardware. Also the price of the subscription is clearly stated and available for all to see. If you subbed and suddenly expected more than what is available then that's just you (and by "you" I mean anyone reading this) not doing your due diligence before parting with your money, the saying goes 'a fool and his money are soon parted', and it's true (I should know).

    I personally was very much against the annual subscription model because it's not a flexible enough business practice, I quite honestly didn't want to commit a full 12 months subscription on a game that I had no idea I'd even be playing in 12 months, 2 yrs ago I was all over Red Dead 2 and GTA-V before that and Farming Sim before that and ETS2 & ATS (American Truck Simulator) before that, and before all of that PC stuff I was throwing hundreds of hours down in CoD4, Black Ops and then MW2 on the PlayStation.

    So now yes I have a sub, but it was in my opinion a very shrewd purchase, exactly the same as 390001 above I had no ATS content, the sub + the sale (the first Alan has ever held) meant that I basically got my sub for free bought pretty much the whole shop and still got a discount compared to the full priced items + on top of that access to all the subware routes and scenarios, this was suddenly worth doing and I jumped on it. Will I resub next year? Ask me next year.

    If however there had been a monthly option I would have subbed long ago, can't say I'd have kept the sub going but I would have resubbed every time something new came out or worthwhile patches/updates to existing content were released and I'm sure a lot of other people are of the same mind.
    Would the monthly option mean more or less income for ATS, I couldn't possibly guess.

    I hope in 12 months I'm still as enthused and captivated by TS as I am right now, just shy of 1500hrs in-game and actually loving it more each month over the last, will it last? I hope so, I worked out the other night how much I've ploughed into TSC and all it's DLC and 3rd party content, I'm currently sitting at just a hair over £1800, I didn't count my RailDriver as that was a gift off the Wife, but if I did that would knock my TS expenditure to over £2000. So yeah safe to say I'm quite heavily invested in TS now and every hour in-game increases my overall value for money, still works out a lot cheaper than fishing.

    Sorry kind of went off on a bit of a ramble but my point is this, irrelevant of what I think of the business model of 12 monthly subscriptions you can see what's available to you before you part with any money and I believe there's bigger and better things still to come (oh yeah and some TSW stuff too but meh) I think 2023 is going to be a good year for TSC all round.

    The End.

    roll credits...
     
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  13. inversnecky

    inversnecky Well-Known Member

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    There’s mention of discounts for third party payware. I’m presuming that this refers to such payware sold via the ATS site, rather than allowing you a discount on AP?

    9D30491A-7195-40B1-8E25-4B48AEF6160E.jpeg
     
  14. inversnecky

    inversnecky Well-Known Member

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    I’m trying to see - for me personally and with what I have, I stress - how it could work for me.

    Had a look at some Huddersfield scenarios, and a common requirement seems to be:

    https://alanthomsonsim.com/product/ats-imbue-studios-class-185-pack/

    Which itself has four scenarios with a whole host of AP requirements.

    I’ll have to think carefully about it all!
     
  15. westcastlerail

    westcastlerail Active Member

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    I renewed my lapsed subscription to get the ATS payware routes + Class 185 at the black friday prices, plus update the 4 subscription only routes.

    I think the subscription model is fine and definitely feel Im getting monies worth.

    I also brought the hardware PBC control unit and various button boxes, which also got a good discount on as a subscriber.

    My main issue for me is that the subscription only routes require a lot of freeware and reskins to make scenarios work.

    The routes are too long for me to create scenarios and Quick Drive AI is not programable due to the Page 2 AI Consist selection issue.

    So for instance the freeware VTEC/LNER Class 91 pack is needed for 3 of the 4 subscription routes (East coast mainline) but ATS do not offer support for that product as its freeware.

    I know I can swap them out in loco swap (great free product by the way) but running down the ECML with a 91 in sight just feels a bit wrong!

    My only other feedback would be about purchasing third party stuff through the site. When I first started TS I brought all the JT Western Mainlines routes discounted through ATS, but it took a lot of chasing to get the updates to those routes that where released late last year.

    To get payware updates you don't need a subscription, you can just log in and re download the update file from your original purchase via ATS.

    For the subscription routes you do need a current subscription to get an update, and they do still work fine after subscription has ended.
     
  16. inversnecky

    inversnecky Well-Known Member

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    Yes, with so many of these things, you'll have to spend an awful lot of time checking you have requirements, and acquiring (and maybe paying) for them, before you can use the routes/scenarios.
     
  17. frank351981

    frank351981 Active Member

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    Subscription yes or no - at the end everybody must decide for itself if its worth or not. But overall it must be clear that if you made a sub only for reduced prices, than its only worth if you buy enough (especially when its no sale).
    Heres an example if made some time ago somewhere else (prices may be different to now, and the example prices are already higher than some years ago!)

    If you buy for example:
    (fullprice / reduced price)
    Overhead Live Electrification Pack (OHLE) - 12,99 / 6,49
    Cambridge – Peterborough - 23,99 / 11,99
    Class 185 - 26,99 / 20,99
    Chat Moss - 26,99 / 15,99
    Kings Cross – Kings Lynn - 26,99 / 15,99
    Subsciption - 32,99

    Summe without Sub [engl Pfund] - 117,95
    Summe reduced: 71,45 => seems low, but forget not your sub-price which you have paid too:
    Summe reduced + Sub (32,99) - you pay 104,44 instead 117,95. So you have saved money.

    if you for example only will buy two products: its not worth only for price reduction
    fullprice / reduced price /
    Class 185 - 26,99 / 20,99
    Chat Moss - 26,99 / 15,99
    Subscription - 32,99

    Summe without sub: 53,98.
    Summe reduced: 36,98 but again - dont´forget the sub-price, so....
    Summe reduced with sub: 69,97. Now you pay more than you have payed without sub

    They may announce what plans they have to build and release. But the problem is: at the end you don´t know what will be released at end of the year subscription. And at some routes the question too: when the next phases are finished? And the fact that you can only install the subware stuff if you have an active sub - I ´ don´t know, it has somehow a bad taste for me. (my advice: if installing, look into your temp directory of your windows, could be ./Appdata/Local/Temp . Make a copy of the created folder wich contains a archive with the assets/content stuff, then you have a backup if reinstall is needed. Notice: could be possible that the installer deletes this temp-folder after installation).

    My opinion:I would prefer more something like: make all subware routes regular payware. And then free updates (bugfixes and those stuff). Extensions like those Phase 1, 2,.... could be a payware extension. Thats what others have done too like DTG, RSSLO or RWA with their Nordbahn. Similar to their route merges, some little cheaper price for their effort like at RSSLO. And perhaps there may be some discount if you buying x products at same time (something like Christtrains do on his page).

    By the way: pay attention when you are watching in their forum on the ATS site. Seems that there are some Spammers posting links that I would judge: dangerous. And for ever reason nobody of the admins is deleting this LOVE

    EDIT: interesting, instead of LOVE I´ve wrote the opposit :o:D;)
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2023
  18. Reef

    Reef Well-Known Member

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    You presume correctly.

    Look at ATS's store page, if it's on there then there's a discount (of varying amounts) with everything listed there, AP is not on their store so no AP discounts.
     
  19. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    I did provide a suggestion. Do it like Humble Bundle. Things unlock over a year, and it resets if you stop the sub. That way be can get a couple of pounds a month of continual money and it's not a major budget hit for people. Heck, I might even do it to download some subware scenario packs.

    With UKTS closing this is the perfect time to convert the program to a budget friendly option.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2023
  20. 390001

    390001 Well-Known Member

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    If you time the sub right you get more than your monies worth.

    This year for example ATS done 2 bundles during black friday that last a week those where.

    Class 185 + Chat moss route bundle
    Cambridge - peterborough and kings cross - kings lynn.

    I already had the Class 185 when i took my sub out so i saved a fair amount with that. I then purchsed the bundle of Cambridge - peterborough and the kings cross - kings lynn route. the sub discount ALSO applied ontop of the black friday discount price so i picked up 2 routes that if bought right now would cost me just short of £56 for £12,99 that saving has paid for my sub alone and i am still in profit. That sub will last me for the rest of the year as well. So in that instance it is worth it. If you are thinking of getting a sub the best thing i would suggest is look at the payware on offer and total that price up and the money you would save you will be surrpised how much you will save with a sub.
    You then also get the Missing link merge which is just stunning as well as other merges and sub only content
     
  21. andy.malcolm

    andy.malcolm Active Member

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    That's not how profit works ;-)
     
  22. 390001

    390001 Well-Known Member

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    it is to me its money in my wallet still lol
     
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  23. kurtosizm

    kurtosizm Well-Known Member

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    Anyone who's got a subscription, could you please share the latest ATS subscriber prices for their routes, rolling stock (e.g. the Class 185) etc? I'm thinking about a subscription, but the site only says 'up to X% off', so I just wanna check if it's worth it.

    Many thanks!
     
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  24. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    Based on calculations, if you see something taking 26.99 and it says up to 40% off, you can assume the price is 26.99 - (26.99 * 0.4) = 26.99 - 10.80 = 16.19. In the end, similar discounts create an actual savings, though it seems like a very small savings. It would take a good sale that also applies to subscriber prices to possibly get me to turn, but I'm holding out for the final version of Missing Link.
     
  25. jpvdveer

    jpvdveer New Member

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    From a post on rail-sim.de a few months ago (October 2022), subscriber prices should be as follows:

    • OHLE: 6.49
    • Camb-Peterb: 11.99
    • 185: 20.99
    • Chat Moss: 15.99
    • Kings Lynn: 15.99
    No active subscription for me either - will rejoin as and when WCML Merge is out.
     
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  26. inversnecky

    inversnecky Well-Known Member

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    The only thing is, though, when you see a company advertising ‘up to 40% off’, you know full well from those two words up to that’s more likely to be an outlier discount to attract custom, than the typical discount.
     
  27. 390001

    390001 Well-Known Member

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    will take a screenshot and show you the member prices when back at PC will drop you a dm with it if that’s ok
     
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  28. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    General forum advisory: screenshots cannot be used in DMs. You can link to them on the Web, but not embedded.
     
  29. kurtosizm

    kurtosizm Well-Known Member

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    That would be great, thank you!
     
  30. 390001

    390001 Well-Known Member

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    Your welcome I will send it over later
     
  31. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    So I am re-analyzing this from the perspective of someone whose focus is having routes to drive on, mainly as stock can be switcherooed but routes cannot be changed. And before someone tries to get a reaction out of me, I'm not posting this in a negative light. I'm just analyzing for the benefit of anyone considering this option.

    [EDIT: For clarity, I am assuming a person might only want routes, not trains; if you were to want trains, you would consider things like the Class 185 or discounts on Just Trains items they might offer, or other stock available through their site.]

    Subscription: 32.99
    Cambridge–Peterborough: 11.99 (12 pound savings)
    Chat Moss: 15.99 (11 pound savings)
    Kings Cross–Kings Lynn: 15.99 (11 pound savings)
    Class 185: 0 (can be replaced, or even removed where not critical to the scenario running, so not analyzing thus)

    Now, many routes there require the Overhead Line Electrification Pack (OHLE), which I think should be bundled with the routes simply because of the fact it's part of the route. Therefore, I consider the 6.49 a hit against the savings.

    So the total cost is 83.45 in British Pounds. This is a total savings, considering the above statement, of 27.51, meaning you are still slightly in the hole by 5.48. That said, we have to look not at the merged routes (which are pointless IMO, the resource use is massive and a game fail two hours in is just not worth restarting from, but maybe core updates will improve this), but instead at Missing Link. If you were to buy every route, you basically are buying Missing Link for that remaining amount in the hole, and I think it also requires the OHLE pack. Additionally, various scenario packs and, pointlessly, individual scenarios are subware and this collection has not really grown over the last year. I think this collection needs to be regularly added to in order to give subscribers a reason to resubscribe, but even then the number of free scenarios makes this collection an easy oversight. Also, the option could exist for a monthly sub option, and on your 12th month as a monthly subscriber, Missing Link is unlocked. Payware discounts could also be unlocked in tiers; maybe OHLE at 3 months, Peterborough to Cambridge at 6 months, the other two at 9 months, and Missing Link free at 12). Other subware, and use of the merged routes, can be provided immediately upon a monthly subscription. Anyone doing a full annual sub can then also convert to a monthly sub, mainly because there seems to be little value in doing an additional year at a time as there really is no savings possible after using the first set of savings.

    So there are ways to improve the subscription model, as much as I hate it. And I personally am waiting for more sales to occur, and trying to hold out further for Missing Link to be finished. I also am curious what this Manchester merge is going to bring assuming the Airport route gets developed, and a possible future discount on that, so I have a further reason to hold out because this area has some interest having reviewed timetables of the area, including the VERY busy Airport route in listing CM02 and Hope Valley in listing CM03. But first, I think the FLIRT will have to be sorted out, as I don't think they made an official announcement about it yet after rumours long ago. I know there is a lot of interest in that train. We shall see. (Also, in my case, the 185 would also be of interest then, and a combo package of the Airport route and 185 as an additional discount would be a good option given the fact the route would show up in a merge where the 185 has a lot of visibility). And unlike the ECML merge with a 4 hour drive, the Manchester merge has much shorter travels more likely to be completed and, therefore, options for Manchester Airport along all three other merged routes plus the Leeds to Liverpool along two other route options, so this could be a fantastic merge and one that might get me to bite when done, personally. I do consider that Manchester Airport to Stalybridge would have to be the full Airport route, however, to avoid reliance on Woodhead in Blue up to Guide Bridge.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2023
  32. kurtosizm

    kurtosizm Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the great analysis. It's a bit disappointing that the Class 185 is not discounted for subscribers. Are they doing sales every now and then?
     
  33. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    It is, by 6 pounds. Not much of a discount. To be fair, you get a lot of liveries. And I omitted it from my analysis focusing on routes with no interest in specific trains, though I am also considering whether the 185 is something I need.
     
  34. 390001

    390001 Well-Known Member

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    take it from me you do save money with a subscription. This is from someone who actually has a subscription.

    the merge route is far from pointless it covers a VERY large part of the WCML you can drive non stop from Birmingham to Preston via Crewe and Wolverhampton. And all the way out to Liverpool via runcorn. Next merge part will include the Birmingham to Euston section meaning we will have the whole west coast mainline from London to glasgow and Edinburgh.
    You also have the ECML merge as well as the Leeds lines. 3 fantastic routes for being a subscriber. And I don’t have any crashes in the route so I fail to see how the memebr above can claim to have a game crash 2 hours into a drive if they have never had the sub or route.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2023
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  35. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    I will admit I forgot about the Leeds Lines. There is a freeware Leeds to Doncaster download and an extended one to York. So there is that. OTS however also covers the route between Leeds and York (the Harrogate Loop), but it doesn't go to Doncaster I believe, instead going via Neville and including some network in the region.

    Once the core updates come, WCML and ECML merges will probably be more palatable for some if we see significant gains. I look forward to seeing how other routes improve, and my view on those merges may change then.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2023
  36. 390001

    390001 Well-Known Member

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    And how many requirements does the OTS one have. Oh it’s the same as ATS but your not complaining about that I wonder why.
     
  37. gee

    gee Member

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    In the recent sale on ATS I purchased: Cambridge - Peterborough, Kings Cross - Kings Lynn, Chat Moss, Class 185 for 32 quid subscriber price. With what I saved I've re-subbed to ATS for another year.
     
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  38. 390001

    390001 Well-Known Member

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    I think a lot of people have done the same t
     
  39. Reef

    Reef Well-Known Member

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    I don't know what unreliable source you're getting your information from but....

    Image6.jpg

    Looks like a discount to me (an actual subscriber).
     
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  40. 390001

    390001 Well-Known Member

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    the 185 is discounted as can be seen above. Stick taking advice from people who are subscribed. People who are not subscribed do not see the discounts you get. And certain people will post inaccurate information to temp you away from actual information because they dislike the whole subscription system.
     
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  41. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    It's still a relatively new product, and as such, dev costs will need to be recouped before a big discount is made on it. Consider a new route from DTG as an example... it's some time before it will be included in a sale. Same applies here. Considering the dev costs of developing a new product, I think the 22% discount is actually pretty good, and it's a superb product.
     
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  42. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    I meant in comparison to the others, 6 pound discount versus an 11 or 12 pound discount. And they did have a bundle sale once, which I was told was a day, and I didn't know it was for a week. Might have considered it had I realized it. Oh well.

    Missed the 700 EP at Christmas a slightly different way; when I inquired why the sale ended earlier than I was aware, I was quickly informed they were impressed I got a picture when it still said the 2nd. LOL
     
  43. 390001

    390001 Well-Known Member

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    The owner himself said it ran from the Monday until midnight the Thursday not for 1 day
    upload_2023-1-19_8-39-45.png

    AP also published the dates for the christmas sale.

    upload_2023-1-19_8-41-17.png
     
  44. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I found out later about the Christmas sale. I had published the original image on December 24 and was a bit occupied, so never noticed it was changed. See?

    [​IMG]
     
  45. kurtosizm

    kurtosizm Well-Known Member

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    Thank you! I think Cyclone's comment confused me, but I think he meant he wasn't interested in the 185, rather than the discount. :)
     
  46. kurtosizm

    kurtosizm Well-Known Member

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    One more question: are their paid/subsciber-only routes have QD with AI? It's very convenient to have a quick run sometimes with AI traffic. I checked their descriptions but found no info on this.
     
  47. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    I didn't say I'm not interested in the 185. I am if the right deal comes along. I think 27 pounds is a bit high in my own currency with my budget, that's all, nothing knocking ATS or the loco itself as some might suggest. Maybe someday.

    All I was doing was providing an analysis someone might make if they were only looking for places to quick-drive on, without playing actual scenarios; say they have a favourite train they want to run on as many routes as possible for whatever reason, they can do that with the above analysis. For instance, a gentleman I've seen in the Workshop might want to run the 101 on the routes (he actually used to drive one), he might only want the routes and not other locos. I've provided an analysis for him now in the event he wants to drive the 101 on ATS routes. Turns out it would save him money too. :D
     
  48. westcastlerail

    westcastlerail Active Member

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    Chat Moss has Quick Drive, no AI.
    ECML KX EDI has Quick Drive, no AI.
    ECML KX Leeds has Quick Drive, no AI.
    ECML York/Leeds has Quick Drive and had AI.
    WCML Merge has Quick Drive, no AI, and page 2 of adding traffic does not work very often so I have never managed to add AI.
     
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  49. 390001

    390001 Well-Known Member

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    Which is why it is best to seek advice from people who have the actual product as they are the ones who will give you the correct information
     

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  50. KTL_Rob Powell

    KTL_Rob Powell Well-Known Member

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    Except he DID not give incorrect information. he DID NOT say there was no discount, even in several posts says there is..

    Anyway thats besides the point. Disounts or not, items are worth what the beholder values them at. simple as. (By which I mean what is great value for one may not be for another.I personally have had good use out of their products and do intend to get the 185)
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2023
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