Doppelstockwagen On Hamburg-lübeck

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by seblay1608, Apr 11, 2021.

  1. seblay1608

    seblay1608 Well-Known Member

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    Watch this:
    [​IMG]
    and this:
    [​IMG]

    Saw a difference?
    Yes - good.
    No - go to the oculist.

    Hamburg Lübeck includes in reality the DBpza 781, the DABpza 786 and the DBpbzfa 766 (Cab car). In the screenshots, we saw the DBpbzfa 766, but we also saw the DBpza 780.3 and the DABpza 785.1 from Main-Spessart-Bahn. This sounds like a just a little difference, but the difference is quite bigger. The 780 and 785 have low entries (first picture), the 781 and 786 have high entries (second picture). The Dostos have big differences, how you can see on the pictures. I just hope, that the DBpza 781 and the DABpza 786 didn't got finished yet so they showed MSB Dostos, but I don't believe that. So DTG, please don't copy Dostos from other routes, which don't fit to this area. The cab car is the correct one, but the middle cars have big differences! You know this Dostos, you already made this route for TS 2021, where Dostos with high entries are included. So, please build at least the nearly correct Dostos in future.
    Dostos with low entries everywhere on Hamburg-Lübeck are a big immersion breaker.
     
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  2. helderbrincolas

    helderbrincolas Well-Known Member

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    i knew it that they were gonna reuse the Dostos, is DTG at the end of day. They will reuse everything ahahahaha
     
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  3. kuchen0125

    kuchen0125 Active Member

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    But DTG has a high-entry model from the TS. That could be optimized, but they don't.

    I hope you don't need MSB for the Dostos in Hamburg
     
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  4. mrcharliemiggins2.0

    mrcharliemiggins2.0 Well-Known Member

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    I was looking forward to having a new type Dostos with the higher doors especially to add more variety in TSW2. From all the videos I have seen on Hamburg - Lubeck on YouTube, they all have the 781 and 786 (high door) Dostos. It seems DTG have gone for their classic cut and paste technique, rather than a minor change for extra immersion. It even looks like the doors come in lower than the platform, much lower, which is something that would not happen if they could be bothered to change the position of the doors. In terms of rolling stock, it was probably an easier route and the BR112 is heavily similar to the BR143, The Dostos are all reused and the MRCE 182 is a reskin on the BR 182 for RT. It seems in terms of rolling stock, in routes at least, DTG are putting less effort in. For example in Cathcart Circle all it comes with is the class 314, which is identical to the 313 on the roadmap, except the 314 has a pantograph and the 313 has 3rd rail traction shoes.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2021
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  5. Aran

    Aran Well-Known Member

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    The 314 does have a different cab though, so at least that route has something to offer stock wise. For HBL, it's almost a Ctrl + C and Ctrl + V job.

    112 - Copied and modified from RSN 143
    Dosto - Copied from MSB
    182 - Copied and modified from RT 182
     
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  6. kuchen0125

    kuchen0125 Active Member

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    My hope that the BR182 will come without analog displays has died
     
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  7. seblay1608

    seblay1608 Well-Known Member

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    Aran the Dostos are from MSB, not from RSN. RSN has the DABpbzfa 767.2 and not the DBpbzfa 766.0 and DABpza 785.1
     
  8. Aran

    Aran Well-Known Member

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    Same for me. I did have hopes before we saw this, but if DTG can't be bothered to add some stock to make it correct rather than wrong, then there's no way they will make modifications to make it more interesting. MRCE does have MFA 182s after all.
     
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  9. Aran

    Aran Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, I wasn't sure so I went with RSN. Changed it now.
     
  10. LodeStar

    LodeStar Active Member

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    And here I am....thinking we would get THESE legendary trains. Haha!

    [​IMG]
     
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  11. JonnE

    JonnE Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately this is not a surprise. If making a cab car and restaurant for the 101 is considered too difficult and too much effort making the IC DLC quite pathetic and useless this was basically inevitable..

    It seems like often when we think TSW is on a good way it gets hold back by 'economic' decisions hindering it to reach higher standards... resulting in quite painful rolling stock usage in terms of realism on the german DLC.

    It's sad but at least those players who aren't familiar with the real routes can be able to enjoy it because of the nice modelling quality. I, for myself, nearly stopped playing (and of course therefore buying) the german DLCs as this got too much of an immersion breaker for me over time.

    Countless empty yards which we are never able to use, empty main stations as well (Hamburg Hbf without S-Bahn and probably any IC/ ICEs will look very sad as well), no possibility for rolling stock substition (425 on MSB, something else for RSN instead of the 1-car Dosto services, ...), missing IC / ICE implementation in timetable mode without any proper solution in sight... naaah, I'm looking to enjoy TSW otherwise. Luckily it offers enough fun elsewhere.
     
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  12. Snek

    Snek Well-Known Member

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    This is exactly why I won't be buying any of the routes like that. I kinda hope they won't sell as good because I don't want DTG to continue making routes with no new stock at all.
     
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  13. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    And one would've thought CRR with a rather fine selection of new things would be an indicator of where to push the rolling stock.
     
  14. helderbrincolas

    helderbrincolas Well-Known Member

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    =30€ ahahahah, what a joke
     
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  15. Cramnor

    Cramnor Well-Known Member

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    This route is a no-buy. I was hoping to get at least the correct Dostos after they already recycle two of the locos, but with the screenshots showing that even the wagons are just re-used, it is just really sad :( can't imagine the route itself being worth 30€, because the rolling stock is a huge disappointment :(
     
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  16. irFlouz

    irFlouz Active Member

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    However, if you look at this screenshot,[​IMG]
    you can see the interior lights bleeding through the roof like on MSB. I think (and hope) that the actual Dostos for this route just weren't ready for photos yet and therefore the MSB Dostos were put in temporary. Also, on other screenshots, the destination display says "Nicht Einteigen" (= do not enter), therefore I assume that the displays aren't set up yet, which also matches my theory.
     
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  17. BjornGroen02NL

    BjornGroen02NL Well-Known Member

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    The RB 56 is correct for the time RSN is set in, around 2010 when Abellio didn't operate the passenger services yet. On the RB 56 at that time, a BR 143 with a single Dosto was used, locally known as "The Iserlohner". However even that Dosto isn't the correct one in the game. DTG used the same Dosto as they attached to the BR 143 for the RB 91 and RE 16 services. It used to be an older type in real life for this special service, sorry I don't know the exact number of this type of cab car. Here's a picture I found on the web:

    [​IMG]
     
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  18. Task

    Task Well-Known Member

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    I really hope especially the dostos are just work in progress or rather copied in from MSB as a placeholder. It would be pretty bad if we didn't even get on train destination boards for a new route. Also not getting high entry dostos would be a huge disappointment. But I also hope things like the bleeding lights through the roof get fixed for release.

    I really hope the "Work in Progress" notices are more true than ever this time. Maybe someone from DTG could take away our fears and confirm we'll get destination boards and high entry dostos?
     
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  19. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    Seems like another 1st day purchase is risking to become a "wait for a sale", at this point unless the BR112 can be used on older routes (like the 143 and the 182 as they hinted) I think I'll get Clinchfield instead.
     
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  20. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    Having one weird service type with the wrong Dosto is probably not much of a problem, I can understand them not making an extra car for Iserlohner... but here it is a backbone of the route, everything uses the wrong dosto.

    Also, that's a DABpbzfa 762.0, the third generation of Dostos made shortly after the DB/DR merge.
     
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  21. Cramnor

    Cramnor Well-Known Member

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    I hope for that as well. However, if that would actually be the case, PR has done a terrible job, it would be better to have no screenshots in that case rather than to hope nobody will notice - which probably works in 90% of cases, but us enthusiasts we are the 10% that notice those things in a matter of seconds... So that's a disaster no matter what :D
     
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  22. Swisstrains

    Swisstrains Well-Known Member

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    Apart from
    the Dostos: As far as the screenshots told us, no new freight waggons!
    There are so many freight waggons that haven’t been made, for example T2000e or T3000e for intermodal transport! New container waggons, Ea(n)os, more tank cars, etc.
    That was the thing I was looking forward to the most :[
     
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  23. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    Yes exactly, it makes no sense, with Clinchfield we got one of the best looking route in TSW, the longest route in TSW (by lenght), one completely new loco, one semi-recycled one (but with a different cab) and like 5 different completely new cars.

    With Hamburg-Lubeck we get the same deal with locos (1 new and 1 semi-recycled) but even if the route is shorter and I would imagine less detailed/detailed as much as CRR instead of 5 new cars we get 0, even if the only one DTG needed to create was a slight variation of the already existing one?

    This doesn't make sense and I want to give DTG the benefit of the doubt, it's still a WiP and with some time to go until release, and these are the same guys that had no audio for the 395 two weeks before release, it might just be they didn't have the new DoStos yet for the screens to show at railfest but they are still coming.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2021
  24. Swisstrains

    Swisstrains Well-Known Member

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    And btw: Is there any sign whether this could be the can car with AFB, since there are many of them today?
     
  25. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    It's more like 2 semi-recycled ones. There might be more differences between SD40 and SD40-2 than 143 and 112.
     
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  26. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    I would guess since the 143 is such an old and basic model without even PIS it might have required a lot of work to create the 112, but definitely the 3d model is not incredibly different.
     
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  27. Swisstrains

    Swisstrains Well-Known Member

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    I think so to. The Br112 might not look very different at all, but it really is
     
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  28. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    Correct me if I'm wrong, but 3D artists and those then toying with simugraph (which will be the main difference between 143 and 112) are different teams. I don't doubt 112 will behave differently to 143 (hopefully prototypically), but the model itself is not that different... so the 3D modelling team could've gotten to making correct Dostos.
     
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  29. DB628

    DB628 Well-Known Member

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    TrainSim-Matt please Said you make the correct Dostos and not the same crap from older Routes.
     
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  30. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    What's wrong with them? :) I am not asking if such and not others should park in Hamburg.

    Hopefully, we'll get the right ones, but all sorts of ugly things are saying about hope.
     
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  31. Swisstrains

    Swisstrains Well-Known Member

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    first of all: It’s no crap. The models are very well made, and although there are a few minor bugs like the “bleeding” of the light they are awesome!
    And second:
    We will see whether there are going to be new Dostos or not. Although it would be a shame if there weren’t new ones, I think it’s less great that there were no new freight waggons so far :[
    But: WIP!
    Don’t burn it down and destroy it before we even know whether these are the dostos!
    The route looks awesome, and the models are as well.
     
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  32. Jinoss17

    Jinoss17 Well-Known Member

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    Knowing how DTG operates, I think these Dostos will be the ones we will have on final release. I still keep a small hope that we will get a new model, but very marginal. That's why I never buy anything from DTG on release day and wait for a sale.
     
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  33. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    Will it prevent gameplay? It's also a matter of the layer's mechanics. These wagons, in a set of 143, come from the RSN. It's a complete set (EDIT inseparable, in some way, technically). MSN has slightly different Doppelstockwagens for 146. I wouldn't expect new ones, unfortunately. These are layers from the RSN / MSB.

    Skipping the ability to model from scratch. Who knows :)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 12, 2021
  34. Jinoss17

    Jinoss17 Well-Known Member

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    It won't prevent gameplay for sure, but it won't make the route worth 30€ in my view.
     
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  35. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    It is clear. For me too, of course, the overall variety of cars is insufficient from a fan's point of view. Here it will probably also be incorrect. You're right. For me, german stuff is # 1 high priority, but here I would not count on new ones :( :)
     
  36. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    In some other thread, it has been mentioned these are in fact those from MSB. The point is simple though - the cars selected are wrong. We have pushed the 101 of SKA because it has no business being there, the same way these middle cars should not be here.
     
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  37. Swisstrains

    Swisstrains Well-Known Member

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    indeed. I will buy it, but I have no idea whether on day one or not. It’s a beautiful route with two nice locos, but when there are no new waggons, then I might wait for sale. But as we say in germany. The battle is not lost for now, so let’s wait till Matt or someone else answers or we will get new screenshots ;]
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2021
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  38. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    Oh! If it's really the ones from MSN, this is a puzzle for me. Which picture are we talking about - the one from the train station?

    PS Indeed you are right! After all, 112 is in front (not 143). These can be any then. So it's laziness! haha DTG :)
     
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  39. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    Posts nr 1 and 7 in this thread touch on this. The cab car and 1st class are different between MSB and RSN.
     
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  40. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    I made a wrong assumption, this is a complete train (layer) from the RSN. 112 front is bad news for us, in a way **
    PS ** They have no other wagons at the moment / it's not a placeholder (?)
     
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  41. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    I'm gonna hold off with heavy criticism because the Dostos might be placeholders, but if they don't include high-entry coaches I won't be buying it. The 101 not coming with a cab car is already very dissapointing, because I jus't don't buy the excuse (they've made DLC with cab cars and even ones with two locos).

    I'll wait for a preview stream before judging, but another reuse of the same dostos is almost like an insult to those in the community that know a lot about these things.

    This and the cab car on the 101 not coming feel like a part of a larger trend. DTG can cut corners, because they have no competition within TSW, unlike TS where 3rd parties and players themselves challenge DTG a lot more. This gives DTG the chance to do the bare minimum of work, because there won't be a competitor releasing a better product for TSW.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2021
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  42. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    The DoStos will be included with the route, MSB will not be needed, so the HHL DoStos are not tied to any old route, we also know that substitution seem to not care about the wagons but only the loco (i.e. you can use the RT BR182 to haul the RSN BR155 coal wagons and the RSN BR363 cement wagons on RSN), both the wagons and the loco come from a separate loco DLC, this would make me believe that is possible to only substitute the loco in front of any given consist, so the 146, 143, etc... could theoretically sit in place of the 112 even if it had HHL DoStos.

    About preventing gameplay, no, it won't, just like using only 1 type of coal hopper in CRR instead of 2, but there they decided to go the extra mile and add another, why not here as well? Am I an idiot for buying a route at the same price but that seemingly received less attention? Why should I buy HHL at the same price of CRR if it looks like on one route they made an effort to go beyond making sure nothing would "prevent gameplay" and in the other they didn't?
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2021
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  43. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    May it all end well. Then it looks like this:
    I won't buy it, because there are no proper wagons.
    I am buying. I have a negative opinion... because there are no proper wagons (what an unexpected surprise!)
    So... I am advising you not to buy.
    It's even fun. The best way out of this situation is then... to make new wagons. I would not dare to advise against the purchase! :D
    The station looks wonderful.
     
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  44. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    Well... one of main reasons I was waiting for this was because in my own utopia, it would bring new DoStos (re-work of the old ones and addition of the new ones) and two new locos which I could be able to use on all my older routes.

    I knew the replacement of the old DoStos with new new ones was far fetched, but at least having new high-entry ones would have been nice just to have a more realistic experience, I hope at least those low-entry ones are better than the MSB ones.

    At this point, for me the only thing that matters is to understand whether or not the 112 and Taurus will substitute the 143 (in a lot of routes not prototypical) and the passenger 182 for freight on all the older routes
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2021
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  45. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    I was ironic, of course, but I'm worried about the fate of this DLC now. I love German trains, but I don't know much about them, I wouldn't even notice this 'little' difference. DTG has a problem (or maybe they are doing these wagons!). May it be. BR o7
     
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  46. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    I was afraid of this when I saw 101 in front of IC cars, yesterday. However, there will be no wallet break until May... :D

    link
     
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  47. DB628

    DB628 Well-Known Member

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    Hamburg to Kiel has much better trains the DB BR 445 Triebwagen without a Loco.
    But next year Hamburg-Lübeck get 18 Stadler Kiss Triebwagen D1912152-6049-4BD3-9BF1-66B704922355.jpeg
     
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  48. Swisstrains

    Swisstrains Well-Known Member

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    Apart from the Dostos:
    I just noticed the Br112 didn’t had light up Pis boards, so my hopes for the real Dostos aren‘t dead yet :D
     
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  49. mrcharliemiggins2.0

    mrcharliemiggins2.0 Well-Known Member

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    Also, if you notice on some of the Dosto coaches it says 'Nicht Einsteigen' which means not in service, which makes me think that they are placeholders for the high entry Dostos, which are not ready yet.
     
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  50. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    Same goes for freight cars. I only saw the telescope roof car thingy from MSB this far. I really hope they're just stand ins, we'll have to wait for more info.
     

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