Amsterdam / Schiphol Airport - Amersfoort / Lelystad

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Purno, Aug 18, 2020.

  1. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    I'd love to see a Dutch route in TSW. I know there's been several suggestions for Dutch routes, and I'm throwing in my own suggestion. I think this section of railroad offers a pretty diverse and varying landscape, plenty of different trains to be run on the route, and the length should be pretty much similar to what we currently have in TSW.

    Code:
    Amsterdam ----------\          /----------- Lelystad
                         >--------<
    Schiphol Airport ---/          \--------- Amersfoort
    
    Personally, I think the route Amsterdam/Schiphol - Amersfoort offers the most interesting of the two. But because the railroad section between Almere and Lelystad has been voted as the Netherland's most beautiful, I'm throwing in Amsterdam/Schiphol - Lelystad as an alternative. My suggestion isn't to include them both, as that'd mean it'd be longer than the average TSW route.

    Google Maps:
    https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=14-BGx5fLCG2LnCPu25pmN2NqO6L7AIxt&usp=sharing

    Fortunately there's plenty of cabride videos on YouTube so you all can see how the route would look like.

    Schiphol Airport to Amersfoort


    Amsterdam Central to Lelystad Yard


    As for the trains that run in this area;

    Passenger
    Probably the most iconic train is the ICMm, used for Intercity services througout the country. The first video I posted shows how a train ride would look from within the cab.
    [​IMG]
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NS_Intercity_Materieel

    Another train used for Intercity services is the VIRM double deck EMU. Still looks pretty cool, but less unique than the train above. This train is featured in the second video I posted.
    [​IMG]
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NS_VIRM

    Local all-stops services ("Sprinters") are being operated with the SLT.
    [​IMG]
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NS_Sprinter_Lighttrain

    The most recent addition to sprinter services is the SNG
    [​IMG]
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sprinter_New_Generation

    This single-deck electric locomotive is used to pull double deck coaches. This locomotive has 3 bogies. The older version of the train, in the first image, was used to operate mainly all-stops or semi-fast services. The second image shows the modernized version of both the locomotive and the coaches, which is mainly used for intercity services. Although the train may look like an EMU, it's simply a locomotive with unpowered coaches, the last of the coaches being a cab-control car.
    [​IMG]
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NS_DD-AR

    If we go back in time a decade, one of the more icon trains of the time was the Mat'64 operating all-stops or sometimes semi-fast services.
    [​IMG]
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NS_Mat_'64

    Roughly a decade ago the SGM was another train used for all-stop services. The first image shows the older version, the second image shows the modernized version.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NS_SGMm

    Freight
    I know there's also freight services on the Amsterdam-Amersfoort section, operated by DB / Railion. I do not know exactly which locomotives they're using. There may also be other companies operating freight services on the route, using either their own or leased equipment.

    In yards, the British built Class 08 ex-NS 600 series can still be seen. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NS_Class_600
    [​IMG]

    ex-NS 6400 locomotives have been operated by Railion for freight services
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NS_Class_6400

    Ex-NS 1616 operated by DB Schenker.
    [​IMG]

    DB BR189
    [​IMG]

    International
    The Intercity service between Amsterdam and Berlin operates on the section Amersdam-Amersfoort, using an NS Class 1700 locomotive and German IC coaches. I bet there's plenty of Germans who'd like to see those coaches ;)
    [​IMG]
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NS_Class_1700

    Additionally, many international trains can be seen at Amsterdam, but they operate on different routes. However, they can occasionally be seen on the Amsterdam-Amersfoort section when they're being rerouted because of railworks on their original route. The international trains calling at Amsterdam include the ICE3M to Frankfurt, the Thalys to Paris, the Eurostar to London, and TRAXX locomotives on services to Brussels.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2021
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  2. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    Stations
    Architecture on the line is diverse, mixing old historical buildings (often preserved monuments) with modern new buildings. Track infrastructure has been updated over the years, but enough traces of old can be found along the route. The route between Amsterdam and Amersfoort passes through some very historic stations, with buildings in various architectural styles. The sections to Schiphol Airport and Lelystad are much newer and feature more modern functional architecture.

    Amsterdam Centraal
    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Schiphol Airport
    [​IMG]

    Duivendrecht
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Amsterdam Muiderpoort
    [​IMG]

    Almere Centrum
    [​IMG]

    Lelystad Centrum
    [​IMG]

    Naarden-Bussum
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Bussum-Zuid
    [​IMG]

    Hilversum
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Baarn
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Amersfoort
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG] [​IMG]



    EDIT: Reusing this 2nd post for more information on the stations. Original message:
    Would there be anyone who has some more information about which freight trains operate in the area? I only know the passenger trains operating.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2021
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  3. dasmith1

    dasmith1 Active Member

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    The Dutch routes was talked about in the Live Streams and it might be a possibility of it being added in the near future.
     
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  4. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    Oh that's interesting. Would you know which stream this was said in and would you also have a timestamp of when it was said so I can look it up? :)
     
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  5. johnjohn190690

    johnjohn190690 Active Member

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    Same here would love more content and especially from a country they haven't been to yet I think
     
  6. danistarwars

    danistarwars Active Member

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    Yes, I would also love this. But I might be biased because I am dutch. Just more country's in general would be good.
     
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  7. carlingamesnl

    carlingamesnl Member

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    i live in amersfoort and so now and then i see a 6400 loc driving past or a 1700 loc with some freight on the back
     
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  8. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, I added pictures of the 6400 locomotives under the Freight section.
    The 1700 is already listed on the International section.
     
  9. tom7aar

    tom7aar New Member

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    Sounds like a good idea, I would love to see this happen.
    I agree in the 1st choice ending the route at Amersfoort, the 2nd option ending at Lelystad.
    Also, it would be nice to also have the yard "Hoofddorp opstel" in the route as well if it indeed starts at Schiphol.
     
  10. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the likes everybody! I really appreciate the support. Lets keep on upvoting Dutch routes to show how much we'd love to see them in the game :)
     
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  11. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    Sounds good! It would link up nicely with my suggestion. If there is no Dutch route in the next roadmap, we should really try to keep the Dutch suggestions alive. Your suggestion also offers some interesting variation in rolling stock, that I'm sure non-Dutch players would enjoy aswell. I'll link this suggestion in mine if you don't mind.
     
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  12. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    Sure, please do. :)

    I do hope to peek the interest of non-Dutch players, because we have quite a few interesting trains, but also quite an interesting landscape, albeit flat.
     
  13. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    For anyone that hasn't lived in the Netherlands for most of their lives, I think it would actually be a sight to behold. When driving to Friesland in the north, even I am amazed at how flat this country is.
     
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  14. matinakbary

    matinakbary Well-Known Member

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    I think the wording is a bit misleading here. When talking about Dutch content, they said that many people would love to see dutch routes as it is suggested very often. And they said they would also love to see a Dutch route in TSW. That's all. Nothing confirmed here.
     
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  15. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    Exactly, if i recall correctly the Netherlands is the 5th most popular demand, and the second most demanded new country after Australia (which did surprise me), according to DTG's own surveys, but don't quote me on that. That combined with DTG enployees being interested in making a Dutch route, and their desire to add new countries does give me hope, but we'll only know when the new batch of routes to go into developement is announced in the roadmap (which will most likely be tomorrow)
     
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  16. matinakbary

    matinakbary Well-Known Member

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    It won't, Sam said this last week. This roadmap will not include new routes. Maybe the next one or the one after it :(
     
  17. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    As far as I know, Dutch routes was the top 5 most suggested here on these forums. I can't remember anything said about survey results on this matter. However, keep in mind that the Dutch are known for speaking foreign languages pretty well, which may result in there being an overrepresentation of Dutch people on the community compared to other non-English native speakers.

    Suggestions aside, what DTG really needs is sales. We're a relatively small country, and although I've read somewhere that the Dutch spend relatively large amount of money on games, compared to other nations, I don't know if that's enough sales to cover the development costs. We also need non-Dutch people to be buying whatever Dutch stuff DTG (or any third party) releases, and I have no clue how popular Dutch content would be for non-Dutch people.
     
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  18. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    There probably is an overrepresentation (not as much as the brits though). But in my suggestions I've been trying to explain what would make dutch routes interesting, and non-dutch people seem to be interested in our Koplopers, and I'm trying my best to explain the operational uniqueness of the NS. We are utilising our railways to the max, and it shows in dense and complicated operating schedules (take the crossovers in the middle of platforms that allow for both terminating and through services at the same platform, at the same time).
     
  19. matinakbary

    matinakbary Well-Known Member

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    I think many people in Germany and Belgium als potential buyers. At least the german people near the border. That's my guess of course. But I've seen a couple of big german Youtubers playing dutch TS routes. DTG probably has to try and see. If the sales are good, it's likely we see more content (as I guess, we'll get more french routes since the LGV was very popular). And if it isn't at least they tried and know better for the future.
     
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  20. flystentz

    flystentz Member

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    For me i would love to discover different parts of the world in game, dosent matter where, as long as i like how the route and train is.

    I think i would love the Dutch rail network, had 3 days in a hotel overlooking the Ajax arena where i could se the busy railway with the Koploper, VIRM amd Sprinter
     
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  21. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    Exactly that is what we're hoping for. The Dutch rail network is extremely busy, and the rolling stock offers new things to the game (they still are all EMU's though, just very different from what we're used to). For everyone saying that routes don't have enough life in them, Dutch routes will be an outcome as just with two or three types of rolling stock you could see services every 15 (or even more frequent) minutes in both directions on a line, without even requiring DLC to achieve that. See the 'Services' section of my suggestion for more, many of the schedules on Dutch lines will have a similar frequency to that (and most of the trains on my suggestion run furthter on this line)
     
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  22. flystentz

    flystentz Member

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    I went to Amsterdam last fall (for a champions league game) and could see the Ajax arena from my hotel, with the railway going too it, and there where so many trains all the time
     
  23. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Nice and speaking of the NS class 600 it's your TVL & NTP Class 09/08 Shunter. While the other variant of NS1700 is a bottom-mounted BSI Coupler for DD-AR duties while retaining the hook for Buffers and Chain coaches.
     
  24. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    The automatic coupling on the NS Serie 1700 attaches to the hook couplings. This means that coaches (like the DB IC coaches) with hook couplings can't couple to the the loco as long as automatic coupling is on. However, the automatic coupling can detach, allowing usage of the conventional hook couplings. Therefore it should be a detachable module in game, I believe the HST on GWE already has something like this, so it's not hard to implement.

    On the topic of the 1700,
    I think it should come in a pack with the 1600 (and posibilly 1800 which is a 1600 with a different number for passenger duties, no differences except that), because they only differ on a few points such as air compressors and the controls in the cab related to them, therefore this wouldn't nearly cost as much moddeling work as a new loco. A pack with 2 locos is possible, as seen with the Heavy Freigt Pack for NTP.

    The 1600 could then haul the German freight wagons already in game, and the 1700 the German IC coaches coming to the game with the DB BR 101. This would allow the reusing of models and sounds, so that the DD-AR coaches can come with the pack without being to expensive for DTG to develop. I've also included this with some more details on my Dutch suggestion, which is a perfect for for the 1700 + DD-AR coaches as it saw them until 2019. If a Dutch route on which it would make sense to have the 1600/1700/1800 ever comes, I'll make a seperate suggestion for it as DLC.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2021
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  25. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    On topic of the NS1600, NS1700 and NS1800, don't they share some similarities with some French loco? I'm no expert, but I've seen pictures of SNCF locos with a very familiar shape. Considering DTG already has the SNCF license for the LGV Marseille-Avignon route, and has stated that once they create a new country, they'd like to do more routes to be able to reuse assets, there might also be an advantage with reusing assets between the NS1600/1700/1800 series and whatever that French locomotive is.

    Or am I totally misjudging the situation and are there too many differences between the Dutch locomotives and their French look-alike cousins?

    EDIT: Found it. Their French cousin, which is apparently used as a base to design the NS1600 series.
    https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/SNCF_BB_7200 or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SNCF_Class_BB_7200
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2021
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  26. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    On subject of freight trains and the possiblity to share/reuse German assets, I'm not sure, but I think I've seen Railion BR189s hauling freight on the route. Does anyone know more about the kind of freight trains that runs on these routes? I'm pretty convinced there's possiblities to reuse some rolling stock from Germany, and perhaps even the UK.

    According to Wikipedia the list below shows all the locomotives operating in the Netherlands, I just can't find information in which parts of the country they're operating. There's some familiar locomotives in this list, such as the BR232, Class 66 and BR363. However, I don't know if they still use a lot of diesel traction on this electrified section of the Dutch rail network.

    upload_2021-3-24_9-53-38.png
     
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  27. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    That is the class 66 on Great Western Main
     
  28. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    The BR 232 was used between the Ruhr and Rotterdam, but has since been replaced by electric locos as far as I know. The 363 can be seen still I believe, but in the hands of private operators, and I wouldn't know where. On the 66 I don't have that much knowledge.
     
  29. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, if I recall correctly there is a scenario where you couple a Class 66 to a HST, the 1700 coupling would work like that. Another similar thing is the interchangeable buckeye/hook couplings on the MK1 and MK2 coaches in game.
     
  30. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    BR232s ceased to operate in the Netherlands since 2011, according to wikipedia. I'm continueing to look up some more information about freight locomotives on this section of the rail network.
    upload_2021-3-24_13-11-28.png
     
  31. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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  32. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotterdam_Rail_Feeding

    Although usually limited to shunting in the Rotterdam port area, occasionally their trains can be seen at other parts of the country. This particular photograph was taken at Amersfoort, which is on the suggested part of the rail network.

    It's un unlikely candidate though. It would need a new license to be obtained, and the locomotive would've been a rare sight, as far as I understand.

    [​IMG]
     
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  33. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    That's a common issue with Dutch locos. After the NS Cargo era, all are in hands of private operators, and many have unique liveries. This is great for trainspotters, but difficult when you're adding them to a game. An option would be to outfit all in the NS livery, and ignore the fact that they all have different liveries now, but I don't know how others feel about that.
     
  34. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_Force_One
    Rail Force One have an ex-NS 600 shunting loco, number 683, stationed in Amersfoort for shunting work.

    https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/NS_500 + https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stapelplaats_Crailoo
    Railpro has a few ex-NS 600 shunting locos, numbers 601, 602 and 603 stationed at a yard between Bussum and Hilversum.

    However, since Railpro seems to specialize in rail maintenance, and we have no such thing as rail maintenance vehicles in TSW, it seem to be unlikely candidates.

    [​IMG]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NS_Class_600
    On the plus side, these ex-NS 600 locos used to be ex-Class 08 locomotives, which means the model is already in the game. I don't know how many modifications were made to these Class 08s during their lifetime, considering they've been bought and sold to other operators a few times. Even if licenses can be obtained, I doubt it'd be as simply as slapping a new paint job on them.
     
  35. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    Sorry for spam :P

    Strukton is another company that can be seen anywhere on the rail network, if I'm not mistaken. However, as far as I know, it's all rail maintenance and rail inspection vehicles, so another unlikely candidate. (Licensing aside...)
    [​IMG]
     
  36. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    Can anyone help me with more information regarding the BR189? According to https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baureihe_189 there's plenty of them being operated in the Netherlands, either owned/used by DB, Railion and MRCE. These are three brands DTG has a license for. (And SBB, but I doubt these would be seen in the Netherlands)

    The info I cannot find;
    - Is the BR189 used on the suggested section of the rail network (so that's probably Amsterdam-Amersfoort, as I don't expect Amsterdam-Lelystad getting much freight traffic at all, but I could be wrong)
    - And if the BR189 is used, which liveries?

    I've added the DB Schenker ex-NS 1616 to the original post, as well as the Railpro ex-NS 600 ex Class 08. But I'd love to be able to add the BR189 as well, as it would open up so much opportunities to reuse assets and thus making it a tad more likely for this suggestion to ever happen.
     
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  37. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Speaking of the Class 08 British Railways shunter there's two routes you can find it one is Tees Valley Line and the Diesel Legends of the Great Western Main Line. The one that Dovetail Games can possibly use is the Class 08 from GWML into a Dutch NS600. They wanted another locomotive it that came in from the United Kingdom then work in the Netherlands that will be sister game train Sim 21 Woodhead route Class 77 which is the NS1500 locomotives. That is if they wanted a bundle of NS600 & NS1500 for this route.
     
  38. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    I do not know whether the 189 is used on this route, however (partially from own observation, I live in one of the places in the Netherlands where the 189s are most commonly seen), I know that all 189s in the Netherlands nowadays have a DB traffic red livery, with a big white section under the front cab windows as shown below. This white section is a demand by ProRail to increase visibility.
    [​IMG]
    There are some loco's that have "funded by EU subsidies" in German + a EU flag stickers near the bottom of the cab doors, under the cab side-windows (you can also see this on the loco pictured above, I couldn't find any better pictures of it).

    Some have worn or still wear advertisements, most notable was the "powered by ProRail" livery, which is from the Railion era. I could only find pictures of it in model form. I don't know if any other advertisements can still be seen.
    [​IMG]

    I am less familiar with the MRCE 189s, as they don't come by here very often, I hope at least this helped.

    A different option for freight on this route might be the E.186 from AlphaTrains, but I don't know if these can be seen a lot around this area either.
    [​IMG]

    The advantages of the AlphaTrains E.186 and BR 189 are that they can layer onto German routes too, and could therefore tempt more German players to give Dutch routes a try.
     
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  39. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    The problem with that is that there were only 6 of them on the network, with them being taken out of service as far back as 1985/86. Most were scrapped, but some were luckily preserves. Personnally I really like that loco, but it would be better fit for a different route.
     
  40. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    I've updated the 2nd post of this topic to show some pictures of the stations along the route. That was one of the things missing in the 1st post.

    The NS1500 is considerably older though, by 1986 they were all out of service, and apparently there only were 6 locomotives in service at best. NS1501 has been preserved in the Netherlands, while NS1505 has been preserved in Manchester. According to https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/NS_1500_(elektrische_locomotief) . NS1500 locomotives wouldn't really fit the time period of the route, and I don't even know in which parts of the country they operated.
    [​IMG]

    Ah yes, I know the white part is required by the rail operator. So I guess we can assume all BR189s used in the Netherlands have it.

    https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/NS_186 shows they were used for Fyra trains, and several have now been painted in the NS yellow/blue livery that's typical for intercity services. I've seen NS 186 locomotives at Amsterdam Centraal, but I don't recall them operating on the routes to Amersfoort/Lelystad. I also don't know if they're used by any freight operators.
     
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  41. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    The NS indeed leases them for the IC-direct and IC to Brussel and Antwerp. Freight operators also lease them, sometimes putting them in their own liveries. Other leasing companies have similar Traxx F140 MS locos. I know they can be seen in the east near the borders a lot, although considerably less then the DB BR 189.
     
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  42. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    E186 from Angel Trains has a NMBS Belgian Railways designation 28 & 29. While DB BR189s can come in two couplers Buffer and Chains and C-Akv Couplers with Faals Ore Wagons.
     
  43. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    I've added the DB BR189 to the first post. Sound like it's a common sight on the route and licensing shouldn't be much of an issue.

    As for the 186, NS only runs them between Amsterdam Centraal and Schiphol. That's only a short section of the suggested route, so not really a likely candidate. And we're unsure if any freight operators use them on the suggested section of the rail network. (And if so, licensing could be an issue).

    What does this mean? Does Angel Trains operate E186 locomotives on the suggested section of the route? If so, perhaps they are worth mentioning in the first post.
     
  44. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    What I meant is this is that NMBS leased the E186 from Angel Trains and gave them Class 28 & 29 designation. For this route they are actually operating Amserfoot Amsterdam-Rotterdam-Roosendal-Antwerp freight trains. Basically Netherlands to Belgium Freight
     
  45. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    5K Cabview Holland Dutch Railways just uploaded this cab ride, it might interest some of you :)
     
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  46. iakoo

    iakoo New Member

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    I would definitely buy this route. There's a lack of dutch routes in train sims.
     
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  47. cyrill.kroonstuiver

    cyrill.kroonstuiver Well-Known Member

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    Love it!
    Gonna have to agree with iakoo here
    We've been ignored for far too long when it comes to any official representation in any of the Train Sim games.
    I'm starving for Dutch content honestly!
    Hope that changes eventually to still that hunger a bit :D
     
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  48. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    I agree and if Dovetail Games is ambitious enough they should be able to do German routes that end in Netherlands and this one is linked to HRR via Arnhem Oberhausen Railway or Bad Bentheim towards Hamburg-Lübeck.
     
  49. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    Thanks all for your support. With over 50 likes we're doing quite well here. Lets keep on showing support for Dutch routes so DTG or any third party can be convinced to make it reality. :)

    With the recent announced "Rush Hour" theme for the upcoming TSW update, you'd think Dutch routes would be an excellent candidate considering the amount of traffic on the Dutch rail network. :)
     
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  50. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    I'd be curious to hear what kind of rolling stock people would prefer for this route. In my original post I listed quite a few possiblities, but didn't actually make any concrete suggestions. I guess we could go pretty modern with the ICMm and SNG for this route, or go back in time a few decades with the ICM (the non-modernized version) and Mat64 (I love it's unique look).
     
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