PlayStation Clinchfield Braking

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by IfICanDream, Apr 11, 2021.

  1. IfICanDream

    IfICanDream Active Member

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    Can someone please give me a simple explanation of how to brake smoothly in Clinchfield? The screen about braking passes by so quickly it’s hard to take it in. I also wonder why the L1 and L2 buttons can’t be made use of to control both brakes instead of just the automatic brake. It’s difficult when you have to have your eyes just on the brakes and you can’t watch what’s going on out the window. At least I can’t.
     
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  2. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    What two brakes? You won‘t need to use the independent brake while using the auto brake as the latter also applies the locomotive brake. Unless you want to bail-off the loco brakes (which is something of an advanced feature that you probably won‘t use unless you know what you‘re doing), you never need to operate auto and independent brake simultaneously. And the dynamic brakes are already on another set of keys for Clinchfield.

    As far as braking smoothly goes - two tips:
    1. Coast to decrease speed first. Don‘t apply power to the very last possible second. Plan ahead.
    2. Don‘t slam on the brakes. Whatever brakes you‘re using (auto, independent, dynamics), you should apply them slowly and gently. Apply some brakes, wait for them to take effect and then adjust as needed.
    There really is no great secret to smooth braking. It requires planning ahead, patience, and a ton of experience.
     
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  3. jörgen Näslund

    jörgen Näslund Well-Known Member

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    1: First I use dynamic brake. if that is not enough
    2: I use train brake (auto brake) first step. checking train speed (wait 10-20 seconds). still increase more train brake
    If train speed reduces I first lower dynamic brake to hold speed.
    3: in low speed (load coal 2-3 mph) i can use dynamic brake and independent brake (loco brake)
    very steep you have to even use train brake. to hold speed.
    but it is in combination with these 3 brakes you use. Even handbrake in wagons in extreme cases
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2021
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  4. mariner86

    mariner86 Active Member

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    Keep an eye on your brake pipe pressures. WIth the F7 first service is around a 5 psi reduction. You can then go to service and bring it back to lap to make subsequent reductions. Once you have made a reduction you can make a further reduction if needed, but you will only be able to release the brakes if you need to decrease the amount of brake. I found with a lot of the down grade areas on the branches it seems about a 10 PSI reduction and notch 5-7 in dynamic braking appears to be the sweet spot. Once I’ve made my reduction with the automatic brake I will control speed with the dynamic. Make sure to bail off the independent brakes otherwise you will not get the full effect of dynamic braking as they brakes will be applied to the locomotive as well.
     
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  5. IfICanDream

    IfICanDream Active Member

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    Thanks. I’m usually careful about braking. Maybe a little too careful at times. But the problem here was when I stopped the train it actually drifted backwards and I couldn’t stop it seemingly with the regular brake. Which is why I brought the independent brake came into play.
     
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  6. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    Ah, ok. I assume you stopped on one of Clinchfield‘s steep gradients. You may have to really punch the auto brake to keep a train from moving on one of those. While you should still brake gently to stop, you must then do the opposite once you‘ve stopped and slam them on. Usually, the independent brake would be enough to hold a train, but not on those gradients. The more difficult thing is starting the train again there. If your train is held by the autobrake, you have to be extra careful with the throttle or you‘d run the risk of breaking couplers in real life.
     
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  7. Djb1990

    Djb1990 Active Member

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    Has anyone got a screenshot of the clinchfield brakes loading screen they can share, so I can actually have a proper look at it. It seems to always appear half a second before the game finishes loading, so I've never managed to get a proper look to see what it says.
     
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  8. GuitarMan

    GuitarMan Well-Known Member

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    Clinchfield-Brakes.jpg
     
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  9. Djb1990

    Djb1990 Active Member

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    Cheers. Not much info there really ;P
    I thought it was much more detailed when I saw it briefly. Still, better than nothing I suppose.
    Clinchfield is definitely a route that would benefit from a couple of the video tutorials
     
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  10. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    That loading screen is just damage limitation because the tutorial has the brakes ‘cut in’ in a loco that they should be ‘cut out’ and the tutorial doesn’t work unless you change it manually. It doesn’t really tell you anything about using the brakes.
     
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  11. DTG Natster

    DTG Natster Producer Staff Member

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    Matt will be hosting a stream on Friday that will cover all things brakes, this will help anyone struggling not only with Clinchfield brakes but also how best to use brakes on all locos.
     
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  12. IfICanDream

    IfICanDream Active Member

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    Desperation time: I’ve lost count how many times I’ve tried to back up to Blue Diamond Siding without the train derailing. I’ve only got 180 yards to go and I can’t seem to hold the speed steady enough. It’s really frustrating. Ugh. I’ve tried my best to hold speed and it won’t do it. It either drops to zero or accelerates and derails. I now have the Indy brake on full application and I’m trying to regulate the speed with the auto brake but it keeps failing. I’ll definitely be looking forward to that Friday stream on braking. I wish it was today.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2021
  13. IfICanDream

    IfICanDream Active Member

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    Update: It just derailed again and I had it on idle and the train was literally crawling. I’m going to go away from this thing for a while before I scream.
     
  14. mariner86

    mariner86 Active Member

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    If it is the backing move after you’ve filled the coal hoppers and are backing down to the other cut of hoppers try this. When it tells you to couple and you need to make the reverse move, set the transition lever for dynamic braking. Release the automatic brakes just long enough to get moving. Notch up to 6-7 on the dynamic. Make a 10-15 pound reduction of the automatic brake just as you start moving. Be sure to bail off the independent brake. Use the dynamic brake to modulate speed just as you would the throttle. If you decelerate as you notch it up but pick up speed as you notch it down then you you are good. If not and This is how I accomplished the downhill coupling moves and it seemed to work well. It seems coupling over 2mph will cause a derailment, I think the physics on this route are much more realistic than previous routes. I had the same problem you are the first time. I accidentally released the brakes too soon before I had the dynamic setup and I ended up derailing as well. Not really a margin for error things get out of control quickly
     
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  15. Blu

    Blu Active Member

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    I'm on PC and manage ok, maybe this is just a PlayStation thing. Dynamic brake on the F7 TSW2 doesn't seem to work below a certain speed. My assumptions regarding DB are wrong apparently, and I assumed it was useless under 10-12mph. But on modern US locos it works down to 0.3mph apparently.

    I hope you get it sorted. I'm used to traditional train brakes (Air, Vacuum, None) in real live so maybe its just a case of getting used of older systems.
     
  16. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    It's not that DB suiddenly stop working below a certain speed, simply that they become less effective as the axles and thus the motor armatures turn less rapidly. There is always going to be some effect, all the way down to zero- just not as much as at, say, 20 mph
     
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  17. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    As for the coupling moves at Blue Diamond: they are very, very tricky. It's not an easy scenario!
     
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  18. IfICanDream

    IfICanDream Active Member

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    Dynamic brake? Is that the indy or automatic?
     
  19. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Neither one. Those are both air-actuated friction brakes. The dynamic brake is electric. It makes use of reversing the polarity on the traction motors to make them, in effect, generators, and places an electromagnetic load on the turning axles. Your primary brakes when descending a grade.

    To engage them, in both CRR locos, reduce throttle to idle, let the ammeter drop to 0, then move the selector lever to B. Now the throttle lever increases and decreases the dynamic brakes rather than engine power.
     
  20. IfICanDream

    IfICanDream Active Member

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    I may come back and ask what selector level because that doesn’t ring a bell.
     
  21. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    The one which you use to set the transitions, on the opposite side of the stand from the throttle.
     
  22. Djb1990

    Djb1990 Active Member

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    I didn't get very far either when I had a go yesterday. Got to the mine alright, then uncoupled the rear half of the hoppers. Bit of throttle, waited for the amps to rise, released the brakes and BAM rolled back and derailed at 0.6mph...guess I didn't give it enough throttle... Might give it another go today
     
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  23. borg#1850

    borg#1850 Well-Known Member

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    I think the biggest issue I have with playing the game over real life is feeling (inertia + movement) in my body. A lot of life is flying by the seat of your pants and we get used to that. I ride motorbikes but finding playing motorbike racing games quite hard.
     
  24. IfICanDream

    IfICanDream Active Member

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    Sigh. No luck. I’m going to give it up for now. It’s too much like walking a tight rope. I love this game but it was supposed to be fun.
     
  25. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Clinchfield is a HARD route. It's not one to start out on! Start out with something easier - GWE is really easy - or get used to US freight engines in SPG first.
     
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  26. jörgen Näslund

    jörgen Näslund Well-Known Member

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    This makes me love it. Challenges. The others are far too easy. Being a train driver is not that easy.
    You must use all 3 brake systems. Dynamic,(electric loco brake) Independent (loco brake), Auto brake (Train brake) systems.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2021
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  27. mariner86

    mariner86 Active Member

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    I agree I love Clinchfield exactly for that reason! I think it’s been the most realistic North American route to this point!! The challenge of realistic mountain railroading is my favorite part of the game!
     
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  28. mariner86

    mariner86 Active Member

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    Been my favorite scenario in the game so far. Have you tried the night ops with the SD40? They’re very difficult adds a whole different element when you cant see anything. I wish we had more daytime services there, has been my favorite branch line to work.
     
  29. IfICanDream

    IfICanDream Active Member

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    I wish I could I could say this was my starting route but it’s not. I have all but two of the add-ons. I thought this might be a challenge, but not for me a near impossible one. I’ve suggested before that maybe tips or more description in the game of what you need to do would be helpful for those of us who can’t pick it up as easily. Maybe different degrees of help in the different scenarios or rating each route as to degree of difficulty. I believe there is something kind of like more descriptions but on a route like this something more is needed I think. Let me repeat again that I really love this game. I’ve spent so many hours with it and I wouldn’t trade it for anything. But this route really has me stymied.
     
  30. borg#1850

    borg#1850 Well-Known Member

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    Although I have to say sometimes for me, I just want to have fun driving a train, so a function you could adjust the difficultly of doing that would be nice. I find I run out of fingers or controls to action everything from the console controller.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2021
  31. schorni

    schorni Well-Known Member

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    Here we go again with tutorials and manuals in games... Such explanations belong in the game, not somewhere external :)
    The manual for Clinchfield has probably been skipped?
     
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  32. Djb1990

    Djb1990 Active Member

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    Ah mate...just tried the scenario again. Cocked up again, atleast I think I did, I'm not sure. I got to the mine, uncoupled the rear hoppers, done two lots of loading, no problem so far. Got the caboose and then coupled it to the rear of the loaded hoppers. Uncoupled the lot from my loco and then the whole lot just started rolling away from me! I rage quitted with exasperation, and then remembered the other locomotive.... In hindsight I think that the other loco may have hauled the hoppers and caboose away as soon as I uncoupled.... Either way I cocked up big time and wasted an hour and a half....
     
  33. IfICanDream

    IfICanDream Active Member

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    Yeah you would’ve thought the manual for a route as complicated as this one would’ve been there from the beginning.
     
  34. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, that was the AI loco. Uncoupled cars don't go anywhere by themselves, because as soon as they're disconnected their brakes slam on.
     
  35. Djb1990

    Djb1990 Active Member

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    Thought as much. I just saw them rolling away and immediately thought I'd screwed up, so I yelled in frustration, and rage quit. As soon as the game quit, the logical part of my brain kicked in and I realised what had probably happened... Turned into Victor Meldrew for a few minutes, "I DON'T BELIEVE IT!"
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2021
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  36. borg#1850

    borg#1850 Well-Known Member

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    I know the feeling
     
  37. mariner86

    mariner86 Active Member

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    This isn’t from the Clinchfield, but the theory is similar. This is a training video from the Southern Railway, on operating a train over Saluda Grade. It’s a pretty interesting movie!
     
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  38. stevens9001

    stevens9001 Member

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    I've just completed the perishable route on clinchfield using only the independent brake, gained 21145 ap.
     
  39. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Couple of interesting things to note:

    1) 100 cars, 13,000 tons down a grade over 5%. Take that, Arosa!
    2) They have specialist road foremen to supervise the descent, not unlike ships taking a pilot aboard.
    3) They had a special switch to disable the PCS/dynamic interlock. This was a weird regulatory requirement at the time, that dynamics must be disengaged in an emergency application. Rule was reversed after San Bernardino, where it was a contributing factor to the runaway.
    4) This is Southern: running long hood first
    5) These SDs' cabs have much more sophisticated controls than those modeled in-game, including pushbutton brakes and full radio remote control of the DP units.
     
  40. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    You can get away with it in game, because Simugraph doesn't fully model coupler physics- it models slack, but not failure.
     
  41. stevens9001

    stevens9001 Member

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  42. stevens9001

    stevens9001 Member

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    Do u mind me asking what level you are on and what platform your using.
     
  43. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    PC. FWIW my "driver level" is 180-something, but I had to restart from 0 in the changeover from TSW2020.
     

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