I cant understand why it's so hard to add real trains to their correct routes, although they exist already. S-Bahn services on SKA are driven by 422 units although the correct train, 423, already exists. Just clone 423, reskin it into S-Bahn Köln livery, and replace all 422 trains with it. That should be simple!
I know right? When I get asked to do work for free I also just say "sure why not". Work has a value and you should never expect one to do it for free. So saying "just clone and reskin, simple! " as if it was a snap of your fingers feels borderline offensive to me as it shows disrespect to the actual work involved on the models, liveries and the coding work. Apart from that the interior is unique to München so in the end you technically would still not have the real/correct train on the route.
This has already been explained several times. It is a matter of layers. By taking one train from a given DLC, you can take another train as well. 423 is a train with HMA, where we only have ICE as a base - we do not need a second other ICE for SKA, but with 422 (RRO), we have the option of freight transport (185.5) in the package. E.t.c. BR o7 PS Obviously this leads to non-prototypical ops / But we get variety at a lower price.
Nope, the BR 423 from S-Bahn Cologne have for example another interior. If they "just clone [... and] reskin it" it would still be not the "real train". And then the cycle starts again why they don't 'just' change the interior then. Also changing something in the existing timetable is, as they already mentioned every now and then, not easy at all. What happens with the progress people made? There is a risk that this progress get's lost. Or then the trophies are not working.
Why is it so hard to accept what is in the game and just drive some trains? The same thing is going on now with the absence of a cab car for the 101 and the ‘wrong’ dostos in the Hamburg route. A huge fuss being made about things that don’t really matter. It is not real life, it’s not meant to perfectly recreate every prototypical thing that occurs on every railway, it’s a game made by a company trying to give players as much variety and train driving fun within limited budget constraints. Players are expecting too much. Time and time again we get people complaining that ‘this isn’t right’ and ‘that isn’t right’ and forgetting that somebody has to make all this content. All I insist on is that everything they do make works properly and delivers a fairly realistic approximation of driving different trains on a variety of routes. So a carriage isn’t exactly right or a certain train hasn’t been made yet, big deal, I’m not missing out on anything, I’ve got some great stuff that is there to enjoy.
hehehe well done This is a compromise. The current solution is not perfect, of course. However, the German variant in TSW (all these dependencies) is probably the best. The routes are crowded and almost realistic. It is of course debatable which is better: SKA without S-Bahn or SKA with the wrong but very similar S-Bahn and with intermodal trains included in the package. Matt has talked about it, and these are conscious decisions. These solutions will not satisfy the orthodox fans (1%) but will satisfy the majority of the rest, which will have more varied gameplay.
I understand you because I'm a terrible perfectionist. I also hope that someday we will get an even better solution, e.g. one in which we can decide ourselves which of our trains are to appear on the tracks and which are not ** with full support for licensed liveries. I took note, not so immediately, that it would be no different for the time being. I liked one statement during yesterday's stream - I'm paraphrasing now, not exactly quoting:
This. Post of the Year. We all have stuff we would like to change. While some details aren’t quite right, there are many that are and they show the passion behind the software. I have too much fun discovering those details and driving TSW trains to let a few small things get me down.
This highlights what I refer to as "quibbling". A headlight misplaced, a loco number doesn't compute, a passenger car has too many windows, a fence is made of the wrong material, oh dear! I have to get out of the engineer's seat to reach that switch and etc. There's just too much of this. What matters is good modeling, immersive scenery and enjoyable gameplay. We have that. Just play.
So true, It did take me abit to get this when tsw was originally released. But for "me" this is where the frustration comes in as tsw2. imo tsw2 could be "epic". What would do that is the freedom to place choice of consist /loco anywhere on route and to dispatch my train where I would like on route. mind you I understand what tsw provides and enjoy it for what it does! that said, its frustrating as the provided scenario planner is so limited and "seems" to us users like it would be easy to add just a little more freedom. If a may provide an example which if something similar could be done/implmented with the scenario planner in tsw2 would only lead to sales increases across all platforms. Since the release of Tsw I have approx 180 hours in. On a different train sim known as run8 I have well over 1000 hours of time in. This is not a a which one is better contest please, hear me out. in run8 when you are in game sitting in a loco or just just like tsw anywhere on route in free-roam walking around you can pull up what run8 calls a "train-maker" menu and select any car have it loaded or unloaded, any loco and place it on any track you want on the route, as well as placing any car any direction, close menu an continue on with game. you can drive that train you made or have ai take train and simply dispatch it to any where on route you want via a "dispatch board" allowing you to change any ctc turnout on route, as ai simply follows signals and speed limits on route. this is all done during game play, no closing game and having to use a separate scenario editor. This is the reason I have many more hours in run8 and I have basically bought just about every dlc and most routes, as I have the freedom of making my own operations. How does this apply to tsw2? I know because of coding /design tsw2 is a different beast- but to have the ability in the already provided scenario planner to place consists of your choosing even if its only dlc that only works provided with route, even if there is a train length limit. combine that with being able to go anywhere on route would open up a world of stuff to do, countless hours of game play would tick by. -As of now as an example in tsw2 On the CRR if I want to take empty hoppers to moss from dante with a dash 8 to load them I can only depart from one track with a string of 40 hoppers. okay np, the drive up to moss is awesome I stop at my maker at moss and scenario ends, no loading no return. so let me then go to scenario planner and make a return trip. well you can't cause the only track provided for return trip isn't long enough for the consist you brought there and no other option for is available- this now puts me off from using the scenario planner. If I did not hit the maker at end I could have loaded the hoppers, But would I have been able to drive back, probably not as you have no control of signals but I haven't tried and honestly will be even more put off when/if it doesn't work. So the limitations of the scenario planner far outweigh the benefits at this time for "me" I could just play the provided sce with the F7. I'm Not a fan of the F7 and there is no sce to moss with the sd40. The reason for this lengthy post is that I enjoy this sim for what it does and sometimes I just like running a train from point A to point B. I feel that tsw2 become an epic sim. It is my hope that matt and the devs can add some of these features to their scenario planner going forward.
Spoiler: deep deep off-top TSW & Run8 are completely different games. I can't imagine not having both today. Each of them is strong in a different area. Combining both would be a dream come true.
Basic principle: New routes can have older trains layered in, but not the other way around. SKA was made before HMA and its 423 existed. So they used what did exist, the 422 from RRO. And, as other people have mentioned, the Munchen 423 is not like the Koln 423, so it would still be 'wrong.'
There are 'reservations' possible, like IC for HRR (these layers even exist without 101), but that's how it works. Pure pragmatism
As I've said previously, there are definitely elements from Run 8 they need to consider implementing, before contemplating any more heavy haul freight routes that involve complex shunting/switching and loading manoeuvres to get the job done. There certainly needs to be more freedom when working a terminal both in terms of how you switch the yard and the ability to jump to other locos without losing control of the main train.
I don't see why it's a problem that people expect realism and correct detail from a train simulator software that advertises itself with extreme detail and is made for train enthusiasts. This is not a free mobile game where you just hop in a random traind and drive for 5 minutes then close it. This is supposed to be a proper simulation for train loving people. And train loving people usually like their details right. Just look at the model train communition, where people will be worried about things like having the correct running numbers on their rolling stock, correct models of pantographs and small antennas and often will even go and modify their models to make it as realistic as possible. Obviously it depends on how much you are actually interested in it, but if you are really into it, then these things matter. And having the completely wrong rolling stock is not a small detail, it's a pretty big one. Of course I do agree that sometimes we have to accept certain things, like I wouldn't expect them to go back and completely replace the rolling stock on old routes just because the correct trains has been made since the routes original release. But one could say it's just bad planning from the developers. Why make a route when you can't include the proper rolling stock for it? Let's say they waited with this route until the proper rolling stock is made for it, then it could have the correct rolling stock now. But that's just a way to look at things, I really don't blame them with this one, obviously it's hard to plan this far in advance. But as for the wrong Dostos on the Hamburg route, what is the excuse there? When the add-on includes only one passenger car, then it really could be the correct one for the route at least. Other routes also require the creating of new rolling stocks, so how comes this one suddenly doesn't? Just because they're pretty similar at first glance, it's still the wrong rolling stock. And as for the missing cab-car for the 101, I think that's just really lame. I mean that cab car is pretty much part of the BR101 IC trains, without it it's just incomplete. With the cab car it would've been a great set and an appealing DLC, now it's just incomplete and a reason for people to complain about.
They care only about Money and Deadlines. It doesn’t matter what we want like correct and accurate trains. Train Simulator got much more Details like the Nah.sh Logo and high entry Dostos.
Well.. it's a company. If they don't care about money, they'd go bankrupt. And could never again produce anything again. Doesn't sound right, yeah?
Forza Horizon 4 is used as an advertising medium by the car companies, because they know they are dealing with the biggest software company in the world, Microsoft (moreover FH4 makes a fortune from online subscriptions).
your constant comparisons between a casual racing game made by one of the biggest companies in the world to a niche simulator game by a somewhat small team are ridicolous. There is no common base at all to compare these games in any area.
Tram Sim released a free Tram, free new features and will release a new line for free as well. Bus simulator doesn't release any new content since the map expansion, so what. What is the excuse??? They don't profite, but they keep the customers close and happy with this, instead of DTG.
At least with DTG and Steam there is the opportunity to wait for a sale, plus the two hour money back window. Compare that to Run 8, as much as I love it, the route portions work out at over £30 each apart from a couple of branch lines and to the best of my knowledge 3DTS have never had a sale.
It depends what you want from the sim. Some of us do want to recreate as realistically as possible what is or was reality. This is why I have pretty much stopped using TSW and have gone back to TS1 as I can run a class 117 on the GWML or make up a realistic formation of carriages to travel behind a Western without a 1980's Peak going past. Maybe I and others are in the minority but lovely graphics, the ability to walk around and service mode aren't enough. The 1970's pack (which isn't) on GWE was the final straw for me for TSW for now. Certainly until you can do more in scenario editor (sorry planner). So, I can see exactly why some baulk at the idea of the incorrect rolling stock even if for some it matters not a jot. We all have different desires from the sim and should really accept that we aren't all the same.
I agree with some of what you say here but TS1 just looks far too dated for current day standards. It's strongest point is the amount of DLC which can be obtained however some of that is years old and looks it. I'm a BR fan myself but I know that it's modern day stuff that sells on all the sims. Money controls all in the end. We only have to look at what goes on in football to see how much upset it has caused this morning. I am personally frustrated at TSW2 at present however I will support it as its pretty much the future as it stands. Cane Creek looks great and I am watching the 'Rush Hour' Concept also. Last time I fired up TS1 my BR session came to an end after the Signaller/Dispatcher routed two trains head on into each other thence game over.
Certainly some of the older routes do look very dated. I have recently changed the track on the original GWML route and have started retexturing the ground textures and adding clutter to the stations and yards, it looks so much better. Does it look as good as TSW, well no it doesn't to be honest but for me beauty is in the eye of the beholder. The ability to leave Oxford in a class 42 Warship set to timings from the 1968 working timetable and have a run into Paddington with realistic AI traffic is far more of an attraction than mere graphics. Also, some of the more recent routes, well recent as in the last 7 or 8 years look very good and can certainly start to give TSW a run for its money. When you start using the enhancers like the AP weather pack, track pack and RW Enhancer it really can look extremely good, maybe not quite as good as TSW but not far off, certainly TSW has some pretty low res textures on some of the routes, the distant scenery is no better and I have spotted some near to track buildings which are worse quality than some TS1 ones. Water in TS1 looks better too. Obviously TSW has a long way to go in terms of content but for me that will not be much of an advantage when we have such a basic scenario planner. I agree the TS1 despatcher can be like a recalcitrant child at times but at least you can do so much more with it. Maybe in five years time TSW will have caught up somewhat, I nearly uninstalled TS1 last year as I thought TSW was the future but now I think TSW is much more likely to be uninstalled. I only open it up occasionally if I want a quick run on NTP or TVL. Regarding eras, with TS1 you don't have to rely on DTG for content so others have covered other eras. If all we are going to get from TSW is modern routes now then my interest will be ended in it totally. However NTP and TVL seem popular so I can't see why we won't see more in the future. In the model railway world older periods seem very popular and just as much amongst the young and old alike. It depends how it is marketed and how much effort is put into it, in my opinion.
TS1 has a lot to give thanks to third party assistance. It will probably be around for a long time in one way or another. It's PC only though so I imagine it's days are slowly numbered but it's demise will be a long long way off. It got too complicated for me recently when the anti virus started deleting it and I had to keep reinstallling everything taking hours before I could get going again. I think we will see some more old school content for TSW2 just not at the pace we would like.
Yes it will be third parties keeping it going, even MSTS still has a following and people making stuff for it after 20 years. I think the focus will be on TSW, as you say the consoles are a big market. I agree, I am sure there will be the odd older period route amongst the modern content. Maybe in five years or ten years I will finally uninstall TS1 but TSW will need to have quite a lot more functionality built in as well as the variety of content before that happens. It will be interesting to see how this new sim develops.
A big obstacle is simply that it's way more complicated and time-consuming to build content for TSW than TS. I don't just mean more detailed textures, either: a loco or even a freight wagon in TSW has to include a multitude of Simugraph physics parameters (and then all tested as an integrated system), whereas for TS you just have to fill in a CLUT.
You make some valid points. Although I don't think the TS engine will ever allow it to equal the overall graphics of TSW, in some respects it is actually superior. I'm thinking of water quality, which is inexplicably awful in TSW, but often very good in TS. The other feature in which TS wins hands down is the functionality of the 2D map, which is light years ahead in TS compared to TSW. You are obviously an expert in making use of the TS editor, so that's a big drawback for you with TSW. Unfortunately, at the moment, the only real editing available in TSW is the, in my opinion, totally frivolous train painting app and the focus on trophies, achievements, collecting things and donkeys, all of which, again in my personal opinion, are distractions, undermining the development of the game. I can completely understand why you prefer TS. I will stick with TSW because I still believe it is the long term future of train simming.
I wouldn't say I was an expert lol although I spend much time making scenarios. I agree long term TSW probably is the future but that might be a future without the likes of me to be honest. I find DTG's idea of realism and mine seem to be moving further apart and ne'er the twain shall meet! I think I have become a stick in the mud purist over the last few years. Anyway we will see. I haven't totally abandoned TSW and will purchase the occasional content for it as when it is good it is very good, I still enjoy wandering around TVL and NTP and catching a train and driving a train but it's become not enough and I probably don't have enough interest in the other content to make up for it. I bought SEHS and enjoyed it for a few weeks, now I just don't have the desire to run it. I will probably get the Cathcart Circle but I suspect the same will happen. I think the ability to make far more intuitive and involving scenarios and maybe in the future the ability to make your own service mode timetable will be the time I spend a lot more time in TSW and hopefully get the combination of the often lovely graphics with the ability to mould it how you want to. Off course it depends what content we have in the future to play with. For me the other disadvantage of TSW, they have got very few third party developers on board which results in less content overall and less variety of content whatever country or era you are interested in.
I would argue he's not asking for anything for free. He's paid for the product and is complaining about an area where it's lacking. That's not asking for anything for free.
I still use TSClassic quite a bit. Both of the sims have their strengths and weakness. Run8 is another great simulation that provides a totally different experience. That is the beauty of this hobby, you have plenty of choice and can find something to scratch your itch.
Actually, yes, it is. He's asking for DTG to reprogram a significant part of the DLC which was not present, or planned for, at release ( = man-hours = cost) -- and to do it for no charge. What he paid for, and what he got. is precisely what was offered. That's asking for something for free. Let's get back to basics: A route is designed for certain rolling stock: rolling stock which is released with it, or which already exists in other DLCs. It does not and cannot include rolling stock which might be released in the future. SKA was developed and released before HMA. I would also point out that were DTG to go back and change it now anyway, then there would be wailing and gnashing of teeth from those players who own RRO but not HMA, who would lose all the S-Bahn services in SKA. Moreover, layered and substituted rolling stock is and necessarily must be exactly the same rolling stock as exists in its "parent" route. There is no way, I repeat no way, to have a 423 from HMA magically change into a Koln S-Bahn by the layering process.
