Dtg Need To Redefine Their Definition Of ‘priority’

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by caspargray, Apr 20, 2021.

  1. caspargray

    caspargray Active Member

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    I’m not saying localisation updates are not important but.......

    As we know DTG rightly care a lot about our data packages. They group updates together such that we do not have to update every DLC every week.

    So here are some updates from the last few weeks:
    23rd March:
    Sand Patch Grade:
    • Updated Localisation for the Coal Loading Tutorial.
    Southeastern High Speed:
    • Fixed an issue with door unlocking on Railtour Services. Doors should now unlock on the correct side.
    9th March:
    Great Western Express:
    • Fixed an issue with a number of reported localisation errors in scenarios.
    • Fixed an issue with reported Italian localisation errors in tutorials.


    Yet we have updates that are far bigger (in my opinion) being sat on by DTG for a ‘release window to be bundled with other routes)
    - ECW Departure boards. Massive and eagerly awaited feature delayed seemingly until the 313. This is 100% worth a 2GB download by itself.
    - LIRR, MSB and RT route upgrades are now waiting to be bundled with an upcoming DLC. These each bring huge bonus’s - why can’t they be released standalone as soon as they are ready?
    I’m sure there is more that just isn’t on the roadmap. If stuff is ready, please wait for a suitable bundle and then release it, not sit on it until oblivion.

    Adam and his team are doing an amazing job. Unfortunately very little of what he has done has actually seen the light of day yet. Why not do him the courtesy of releasing his and his team’s work!?
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2021
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  2. Inkar

    Inkar Well-Known Member

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    They are a bit behind with QA (testing) at the moment, but they are catching up. Hopefully the wait times will not be so long in the not too distant future.
     
  3. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

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    It's not a bit. Yesterday Sam tried to manage our expectations. For LIRR it is about 8 weeks from now, so the delay is about 3-4 months of work.
     
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  4. mancunian#7861

    mancunian#7861 Active Member

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    So if it's not asking a stupid question or stating the bleedin' obvious, there are many more than capable people in here. Why on earth don't DTG ask for beta tester volunteers?! Would help them out enormously I'd have thought!
     
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  5. mancunian#7861

    mancunian#7861 Active Member

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    Sorry but what does updated localisation mean exactly please, caspargray? Does that have anything to do with the hopper not dispensing coal or something else? Because I'm sure I had that 'bug' after 23rd March and was told it was a known bug which would be sorted out at some unspecified time and to watch the roadmap, which I've done and commented on already in another thread.
     
  6. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    Sam's already explained it - QA (Quality Assurance - which is where the backlog is) is a paid role that I believe you have to be properly trained for, like a developer. It's a bit like telling a train company to get some volunteer guards.

    The beta testers (or QC, Quality Control) are the people who check for accuracy issues and give feedback on gameplay before it goes to QA and release - that is a voluntary role (cue usual suspects who'll play the "we pay dtg to test their stuff" card).

    Basically localisation means translating it into another language, for example putting it in Russian, Spanish, German, etc.
    Updated localisation will likely mean something's got lost in translation.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2021
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  7. mancunian#7861

    mancunian#7861 Active Member

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    Thank you kindly for the useful/interesting information there, Cam. See, I read your tagline, too! :D

    So, where does one go, or who does one ask, to be a QC (always thought that stood for Queen's Council! lol) or QA for that matter?
     
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  8. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    Sam's been threatening to reform the beta programme to make it more open to new people wanting to join, but I don't think anything's come of it as yet. https://dovetailgames.com/vacancies/qa-team-lead They are hiring a QA team leader which requires much prior experience (I have a small feeling that they're actually wanting to be hiring that internally but by law have to advertise externally - a similar thing happened at Tyne Tees TV a couple months ago).

    QC in this context stands for Quality Control - I've ammended my post. You are correct it does also stand for Queen's Council.
     
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  9. Haribo112

    Haribo112 Well-Known Member

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    To be part of QA you'd need t apply for a job at DTG.
     
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  10. Mattty May

    Mattty May Guest

    Adam is doing an awesome job bringing our loved preserved collection routes up to date and improving the poor sounds we inherited in TSW 2. It is a shame that this hard work is taking so long to see the light of day and whilst it is frustrating (up to 8-weeks for the LIRR update) it will be worth it in the end. I think DTG have a legitimate explanation for the testing bottleneck. A lot of content has seemingly arrived all at once, but I’m sure it’s as eager to release the updates as we are to receive them.
     
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  11. helderbrincolas

    helderbrincolas Well-Known Member

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    So QA seems to be a step behind ah? So we need to wait for QA, for updates that will release in for 4 months? The same QA that gave the green light to SEHS and the worst route performance ever on a console (HMA) and even on the whole PlayStation network, yes because i never seen anything with so low on fps on console. All this months waiting will be worth it? 3 to 4 months?? For when the updates releases bring more bugs, glitches and problems maybe like we have seen before, i just keep my hopes down, because is DTG at the end of day. I hope the updates works fine, because they will improve a lot of routes that needed some love.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2021
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  12. mancunian#7861

    mancunian#7861 Active Member

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    Ah ok thanks but as I'm retired and disabled, I think I'll give that a miss. I'd definitely be interested in helping out the beta team as a volunteer if ever they want or need it though.
     
  13. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, and it's important to remember it's one QA team for TSW, TS1 and 3 fishing games so they have quite a bit on their plate.

    QA don't test that sort of thing - they just test if it works. Your complaints lie partly on QC's doorstep and partly on whoever decided the things must be released before an arbitrary date and no later.
     
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  14. DTG Natster

    DTG Natster Producer Staff Member

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    With regards to localisation updates, they can often be as small as a one or two word change. It could have been spelled incorrectly or simply just wrong.

    These are often very easy to fix, and take little time to check they are correct. This is why you see these updates quite frequently.
     
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  15. PeteW

    PeteW Active Member

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    I have to disagree. A privately owned company can hire whoever they want. Whether they are able to find the right person to fill that post is a different matter!
     
  16. mancunian#7861

    mancunian#7861 Active Member

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    I thought it was now a legal requirement to advertise posts as Cam said? A very good friend of mine worked for a couple of support agencies and she told me although they had a great person for the job already within the company, by law they had to advertise it first.
     
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  17. PeteW

    PeteW Active Member

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    As someone who has worked for a tech company for longer than I would like to admit, one thing does seem odd to me as an outsider looking in. Apologies if exact details aren't quite correct, but I think Matt was disqualified from the Bakerloo challenge just before Christmas due to having the developer version which included the signalling fix. 4 months later, the fix is still upcoming. I get the idea of bundling stuff up. But, to me, that is a long time for fixes to sit.
     
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  18. PeteW

    PeteW Active Member

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    ACAS say otherwise. https://www.acas.org.uk/hiring-someone/check-if-you-need-to-advertise
     
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  19. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    Interesting, I could've sworn the law said you have to advertise a certain % of roles externally even if you plan on hiring internally.

    I should point out - I'm completely spitballing here and have no evidence either way to show if DTG are/are not only looking internally for that role - I'm just putting 2 and 2 together.
     
  20. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    That is what I always understood too but it appears to be not the case.

    I suspect a lot of employers are under the misapprehension that that is what is required.
     
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  21. davidh0501

    davidh0501 Well-Known Member

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    Just as many train simmers are under misapprehensions of what is possible.... :)
     
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  22. Inkar

    Inkar Well-Known Member

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    Sam said he expects it to be released within 8 weeks. He also said that it could change AND that the queue is shrinking. They expect that everything will be back to normal in the near future (as in a few months, not in a couple weeks). What I meant with "a bit behind" is that it seems everything will be back to normal in the near future without DTG needing to make important changes in their team or QA process.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2021
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  23. mancunian#7861

    mancunian#7861 Active Member

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  24. mancunian#7861

    mancunian#7861 Active Member

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    I suspect you're right organist, as did I, although ACAS do say they are advised to advertise.
     
  25. PeteW

    PeteW Active Member

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    No worries. For public positions e.g. councils/anything publically funded, I'm sure that is the case. Anyway, this is way off topic :)
     
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  26. Scorpion71

    Scorpion71 Well-Known Member

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    Can you imagine the fume and uproar on here when we finally get these updates that we've been waiting months for, the community spot bugs and errors from day one of release! :|

    Hopefully this won't happen though! (everything crossed)
     
  27. mancunian#7861

    mancunian#7861 Active Member

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    I suspect I may have found one - immediately after applying the big update but I need to play the scenario again (Bakerloo Line) to be sure.
     
  28. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    I don't believe this patch included anything for Bakerloo. So if you found a bug, it's an old one.
     
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  29. mancunian#7861

    mancunian#7861 Active Member

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    Yes you're right, Bill. Nick just told me that in another thread. As I said to him, if this bug is known and has been around so long, why don't they fix the damn thing?! :(

    Yes, I know they're working hard on a lot of stuff and are short of testers but as I've said before, surely that's easily sorted - or at least the 2nd part is! :)
     
  30. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    What is the bug?
     
  31. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps the qc team needs a overhaul or some sort of changing. I don't get how a team is ok with releasing something that has clear as day bugs and other problems
     
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  32. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    They most likely aren't.
     
  33. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I know but just sayin. What's the point of having a qc team if they are ok with releasing things that have clear problems.
     
  34. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    This is how it works (with any software company on the planet):

    QC: We found a bug in the software scheduled to release Wednesday next.
    Management: How long will it take to fix?
    QC: Maybe five days, maybe a month
    Management: does it render the app completely nonfunctional?
    QC Not exactly, but its pretty ugly...
    Management: Doesn't matter. We launch on schedule
     
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  35. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Maybe managements should actually care more
     
  36. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    It is a bit like life. Lately, hard times, covid. A friend of mine, an entrepreneur, said: I can do the river laundry, but Singleton has to be on the table. This is maybe a matter of mentality? I do not know.
     
  37. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    hahahahahahahhahahahahha. Try telling a software company manager that they should not care as much about money and they'll tell you to get on your bike - their job is to have the company as profitable as possible so they can prove to shareholders "I am managing a successful company, therefore you can be confident in doing whatever shareholders do with my company".
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2021
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  38. Shaun123

    Shaun123 Well-Known Member

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    You seem to have this notion in your head, that the development/QC team, go out of their way to deliberately release software with bugs. It’s boring and repetitive.

    If you’ve had a job, where you were under constant time and financial pressures from management and directors above you, then you’d understand.

    I don’t agree by the way that software should be released with bugs with a fix to come later, but the issue is at director/management level, it’s a case of this is the release date, it’s getting released no matter what and we’ll paper over the cracks later, not an ideal way to work, but it probably means that there is work that is rushed for release and naturally bugs creep in.
     
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  39. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

     
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  40. mancunian#7861

    mancunian#7861 Active Member

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    It's in 222D-11 Elephant and Castle to Harrow and Wealdstone, Cam. Everything runs fine until you get to Piccadilly Circus station then the train simply won't move again after loading the passengers! :( I've played it twice now from scratch and it happened in the same station both times!

    Yes, I know there are long standing bugs on this line although I've not seen a list anywhere so whether or not this is a known issue or not I've no idea.

    I know I'm straying off-topic here a little but this morning I purchased the Isle of Wight add-on (DLC?) and hit a damn bug within 20 minutes or so of playing this! If memory serves me right, I've already posted about this in the tech topic/forum so I won't go into detail but that's simply something that should have been spotted fairly quickly and easily if you ask me! I can't even post on Rivet Games forum for some unknown reason to tell them about it. I've contacted them directly to ask them how can I post but this all adds to my frustration, sorry. Just not good enough to run into a clear bug so soon after buying it. Whilst I'm at it, any idea what a black upward pointing arrow is inside a white box that appeared on the HUD?
     
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  41. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I didn't say they deliberately do so that notion you mentioned is wrong. My point is if a developer is making a product. They should at least sort out issues prior to release. When I spend $20-$30 on products, then that should be the case. It's not as if dlcs and this game are free. It's a paid product and it's not such a difficult request
     
  42. Shaun123

    Shaun123 Well-Known Member

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    Read my post again, and that will explain.
     
  43. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    The dead-throttle bug in the '72 Tube Stock is longstanding and widely discussed; there has finally been some progress made on figuring out what causes it, and tech support have restarted a look at it now that they can reproduce it.
     
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  44. mancunian#7861

    mancunian#7861 Active Member

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    Awesome! Thank you for that, Bill. Muchos appreciatos. :)
     

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