Yeah that's a point. That's why (if it was modern) I'm not so keen on having a Class 802 on the route. Seems like a waste. You can't reach the train's full potential on the route. If and when an IET does reach TSW2 I want it to be on a proper mainline where it can reach 125mph.
Same. I think one way anyone making British routes for TSW can solve this era problem (that some people like modern and some like old) is setting them in the past but using stock that is still in service today or vice versa, stock that is old but set in modern times. So personally I would be quite happy with the route being set in the late 80's if it includes a Sprinter as I can use livery designer to paint in First Great Western colours and run it in it's 'modern' guise if I like.
I have been thinking about this route in the car and thought - it’s one of my favourite routes - even if we don’t get any rolling stock at all it’ll be nice to have some new British rails to run our existing stock on etc, I am sure that won’t be the case though. Pretty sure they wouldn’t take the mick and not include any new locos at all.
Unfortunately that may be the harsh reality Typical Rivett, sometimes I loose total faith and belief in them
I doubt that all locos will be reused ones from other routes. If Rivet release this route with a 101, 47, and 52 and that's it then that would be the nail in the coffin for Rivet's routes. I like to think they're not that oblivious to the responses to their previous two releases and realize they cannot afford to mess up this one.
I think either a Sprinter or Class 50 for this. Unless they go old school and its Hydraulics then maybe a 42? Hard to tell until we figure the exact time it's set. As for reused stock we'll the 47 and 101 are not out of place for some eras regardless of how much people don't want to see them re used.
I was excited to read of a Cornwall route for TSW2 but a tad disappointed that it is West rather than East Cornwall. This would have been a great opportunity to feature the WR main line around Lostwithiel, Par (including St Blazey) and St Austell including some of the china clay lines and the wonderful branch down to Carne Point (Fowey). I know that apart from the china clay workings, there are no obvious start/finish points but I’m sure that could have been overcome. Having said all that, I’m still pleased to see a WR route in a pre-1990 timescale, hopefully, in the ‘BR blue’ period. If, as has been suggested, it will feature ‘diesel hydraulics’, I assume pre-1976 as it makes sense to include the blue Western from ‘Diesel Legends’. My personal preference would be a later period when class 50s ruled the roost, especially in their refurbished ‘large logo’ form from about 1981. A class 50 would be a stunning addition to TSW2. That time period would also allow HSTs in their original Inter-City 125 blue/grey livery.
As mentioned a major reveal will be if DTG let Rivet use existing assets or will this route come with 100% bespoke stock. If the answer is yes to bespoke stock then I would 'like' to see a class 22 with a brake van for freight and local, a class 118, 120 and 121 DMU for branch/semi-fast as well as a class 50 for express/freight -I hope you enjoyed the reckless enthusiasm there A more realistic expectation is that it WILL be shared assets and we are likely get the class 08, If we are lucky a class 121-rather than a 101-and a class 50. I just hope they dont separate freight and passengers like on NTP base and HF. NTP with HF is still the benchmark for me for what I like, but after saying that I have yet to try ‘Diesel Legends’
I don't see re-using existing stock through as a bad thing, especially this gives them a chance for some patching up. Like with German content, the more the merrier if it fits. (And yes even a 101 if it technically ran there) However they need to include at least one loco with the route, and I hope they do chose something new rather than including a only slightly modified existing loco (a la GWB). Modeling is the one thing they do decently so they should really make use of that here. Without a loco, this would leave the more important part being the scenery itself, but indeed as others have said, this isn't Rivet's forte, so that wouldn't be a great move if they don't step up from the last showings.
The use of existing stock is a good idea, but its inclusion should be one of the first details released to keep expectations realistic e.g. ‘Diesel Legends’ 1st details should have been 08, 101, 52 unmodified existing route, THEN sold the concept after the dust settled. I feel ‘Diesel Legends’ would have been much better recieved had this been the case and since there were no plans to do otherwise it was pointless keeping that sort of information a secret.
I agree, if they mess up with this route, rivet would have no choice but to stop making tsw routes because it causes such a headache for dtg
I sincerely hope we see a class 50, but only if it is done justice. There were 3 made over the years if I recall in TS1, and only the Bossman version really captured the subtle cab shape of the English Electric beast. Unfortunately I hardly play TS1 now, but I just can’t cope with the Super Mario graphics any more.
I think that is a little unfair. They have built bespoke stock for the IOW and Arosa lines and very good it is too so no reason to think they won't make at least one piece of stock for this route. If it is set where the clues lead us to believe then they would be mad to not include the class 52 (assuming the can use it) and I would say mad to include the class 101 as that would not represent the units used in that era.
I agree. I would love a 50, or if it's the modern route a class 57 for some proper Loco-hauled stock action. I suppose at least there's a good chance of the HST being usable on this route as it has been a stalwart for many years. If they produce a backdated route, it could still well be fairly usable in the modern day as the infrastructure is still very old fashioned down there, so it's not the end of the world for modern era fans- as shown below at St Erth last Autumn ;
Max speed in Kernow is 75...so we wont be getting a 125 anywhere near top speed Plus with the stops at Camborne, Redruth, Hayle, St Erth there is no chance of getting anywhere near 125 D
I would also recommend looking up for a giggle regarding trains in Cornwall...the great Cornish Comedian Jethro- he is more often than not very rude- However there is a lovely joke from him called "Train Don't Stop Camborne on Wednesdays" Which goes something like this: A passenger is aboard a train to Penzance and when the guard comes round to check tickets he see's the guy has a ticket for Camborne. "Sorry sir, this train don't stop Camborne Wednesdays, you'll have to get off at Redruth" "But I MUST get off at Camborne I have an important meeting to attend and if I get off at Redruth, I'll miss my appointment" "Sorry sir, this train don't stop Camborne Wednesdays" "Isn't there anything you can do?" he pleads. "Hang on sir, I'll go ask the driver if he can make an unscheduled stop" The guard returns and says, "The train is already late, all the driver can do is slow down through Camborne. So what I'll do is get you to come up to the front carriage and I'll hang you out the door- you start running in the air and when your legs are going fast enough, I'll lower you onto the platform" Unfortunately the driver forgets to slow at Camborne and our hapless passenger is pumping his legs furiously as they approach the platform. "Faster, faster" says the guard. The guys legs are a-blur and finally the guard thinks he's air-running fast enough as the platform approaches and lowers the guy onto the start of the platform. Off he shots along Camborne platform, furiously trying to slow down as the end of the platform approaches. He's finally slowed to jogging pace as the rear of the train passes him - a door opens in the last carriage and a pair of hands grab him and haul him onboard. "Your lucky to catch this train mate, it don't stop Camborne Wednesdays"
Yes indeed Jethro is an absolute legend of comedy and I watch his old youtube videos regularly. I think this joke is on there somewhere too.
I’d personally scrub the 10 min branch line and just build from Penz - Plymouth. It’s only a 25-30 min drive to Truro!
What if... that newish BR blue class 52 was made specifically in preparation for this route and its inclusion in the Diesel Legends was a preview... hmmm. As we already know there will be a hydraulic in it, that would make sense, unless Rivet are making a different one. I know what we would all prefer, another train to drive.
Yes that is very likely, I always thought when this pack was announced that a BR blue WR route would appear at some point, not this soon though. It would certainly seem silly for them not to use it.
The St Ives branch gives the opportunity to do the first train of the day from Long Rock to Penzance then to St Ives? The reverse in the evening? BUT the St Ives Branch line is going to be one the most challenging to get artistically "right", there are huge opportunities to go wrong! Granted the mainline is a ~35 minute ish journey. +12.5 for the branchline. BUT if they are back in the 70's the acceleration of those 47/52 type creatures is extremely slow...so I bet the journey time is closer to 40 minutes? One has to remember GWE is 30 minutes at full throttle from Pad to Red, so its comparable. Rather than going at 125 its going to be 55-75. Or 30-40 on the branch line. The only thing I am disappointed with is missing out Falmouth, as that would be the only point of going to Truro! Hey ho. I will still give my cash over to DTG in 8 months or so for the game! Ooh one thought ...Will they give us the sleeper- if they do...will DTG borrow it for GWE? There is a thought? D
I know that, but I meant something else: isn't this portion of the route we are getting a little to short for the HST to make sense? According to google maps, a stopping service takes just 36 mins from Truro to Penzace. A direct run with the HST would be even shorter. I think it would be better to use slower trains on such a short distance in TSW.
The HST is what was used here That is why if they are doing post 1979 it should be used! They are now used as Castle Class and in 4 carriage formation. The "Average Speed" for a HST after Plymouth is something like 30-40mph! The whole point of the line to pick up and drop of passengers in Cornwall and Devon and get them to London as quickly as possible. I dont think the 43 or now the 800's get anywhere near 125 until they are beyond Exeter! Between Plymouth and Penzance its a stopping service, and if you get the wrong train, it stops everywhere (which is seriously depressing) as it takes 5 and half hours rather than 4 and half to get to London. There are no nonstopping trains now. The 530am from Truro used to not stop at Par I think...and got you to Paddington at 12. This is why, I guess, they are calling it "local" its a local stopping service on the "main line". We are highly unlikely to ever get to "full throttle" on any of the trains D
It can't be set after 1979 and have diesel hydraulics in, their operations were mutually exclusive in reality. Last hydraulics were 1976/77 and first HST in service to Penzance was 1979.
Yeah before the 802s came and gwr updated the timetable trains weren't every 30 or so minutes more like an hour or so depending on time of day now with the current one it's 30 minutes but that's because they upgraded the signalling so trains can operate allot nearer to each other as well as having the mix of the 43s and 802s
Yup I am genuinely interested how they are going to model 1970's Cornwall. It is very different today. Very much more industrial. It will be good! D
Is it 1970s though? If the code is 1951 to 1990 then it could be 1960s or even late 1980s with Sprinters with Hydraulic Transmission. If it was 60s then a Steam DLC could be added in due course? We are seeing assumptions its 70s because a blue 52 is around but that has its own pack and I am not certain that means its coming back despite a penchant for re-use. The 52 could come in Maroon and have Chocolate and Cream Mk1s which are already available on the WSR pack. The 1960s is the only era not done at all yet without heading back into the Steam era which wont be done until they have a grasp on producing such content.
This is true. We don’t know the exact time period yet. Sprinters may well be the hydraulic part of the route code. I’m looking forward to finding out whatever it is because I’m definitely interested in getting this route when it comes.
Its more like 35-40 minute and it’s a decent run, assuming there haven’t been any dramatic speed limit changes, over time! 75mph between Penzance & St Erth & Hayle then many gradient changes between St Erth & Truro. I mean I’d buy this for the St Ives branch alone! I assume the reasoning for stopping at Truro, is lack of reference material pre-Truro-Probus-St Austell redoubling, possibly?
To be fair that didn't stop the guy who recently did most of Cornwall for MSTS! With all the branches including the closed ones and the back route via Perranporth.
Easy enough to dig about and get such material, it will be Truro as most trains stopped there and its roughly in the milage that has been produced for other routes, to Plymouth would be pushing it despite many wishing it was going that far. If you dont go as far east as Plymouth where to end then ? St Austell or Par maybe or Liskeard? I imagine there will be some depot work at Penzance to be done so we may see the 08 used here too. Before there is groans 08s were and in some places still are everywhere.
If we get the WSR mark 1's we need more variety. I think only the named top expresses got chocolate and cream mark 1's, they weren't that common if I recall.
I think it was only singled from 1987 to 2004. My 1989 WR track plan books shows it and there are quite a few photos of it around. I was looking at turning the TS1 Cornish Mainline route into a late 80's version by singling that section so have been looking into it recently.
The reason for me "Assuming" 70's is if they go earlier then they have all the pre beeching cut stations to model, whereas if they are later they can ignore them and use google earth In theory Chacewater station and its Concrete works will be still be active but you get my drift. If they are doing the 60's I would have wanted them to do Helston branch as well...seeing as its there. Therefore I am guessing with them only doing St Ives it will be 70's-80's? However I may well be wrong- I often am. D
At the risk of sounding like an only child with a pending sibling (read steam) on the way, I can realistically see this being set in the green period to cross both steam and more modern traction WLOS and Riviera 50's ticked both boxes magnificently. TBH as much as I would prefer mid 70s, I would still prefer green to late 70s 80s or 90s. Also we havnt had a green route as yet with the exception of WSR. I see the value of including preserved railways but, 30mph max is a bit one-dimensional in terms of gameplay. Also on the subject of speed 'the faster the traction the shorter the route feels so Rivet will likely want to capitalize on this being the longest route for them so far.
Yes that would make sense , it could be the first "steam" route but without steam yet with the intention of it coming when ready. Riviera in the 50's is one of my favourites routes, I would have preferred that route tbh rather than Truro to Penzance as it has the wonderful Dawlish sea wall plus the steep gradients on the Newton Abbot to Kingswear branch plus makes a bit more sense as a "journey" especially on an express train as I could imagine crews might have changed at Exeter, Truro wouldn't make much sense in that case. Not that I don't love the Cornish mainline, the TS1 version is a favourite. I personally wouldn't count the WSR as a green route, it is a modern heritage line (without the main ingredient) not a recreation of the route as it was, anyway that is just semantics.
There is the possibility that they simply reuse the Diesel Legends pack on this. Rivet sell the route as is but list as a requirement the aforementioned DLC (or they bundle it). This would mean no new stock at all but I would hope they chuck in at least a nice rake of mark 1 coaches for service variety.
Well if they did that, it would be another piece of DLC I wouldn't be purchasing. The blue/grey class 101 on a specifically designed 1970's period Cornish route would really show a contempt for any nod towards historical accuracy and would show that unless it is a modern route then providers only want to pay lip service to us fans of older periods. Personally I think there will be something new, but what remains to be seen. The class 101 being included in any livery would be a deal breaker for me, for this route as far as I am concerned.
GWR is really semi modern and most of the modern routes use old trains like the 1972 tube stock on bkl, or gwe with the 43 and 166. The 43 came into service in the 70s and the 166 in the 90s. We have more older british trains than modern trains
If gwr are very coperative and helpful with getting licenses, then why haven't we gotten any GWR licensed content in 4 years. I would love to get some gwr licensed content in tsw again
You are totally missing my point, which for the avoidance of doubt is; If you want to run 125mph GWR HST's, there's already a route for that!
Yes, exactly, this will be all about controlling the power sensibly. Taming the beast on the bends and elevation changes in West Kernow. Rather than pull out of Reading, put it on power 5 and have a 20 minute nap. But they may reuse some of the "Legends pack" where it will be a bit more like NTP! D
Totally agree, I have made this point many times. If you like an era then you like the era it doesn't matter what age the trains are surely! All periods of time have new and old trains running alongside each other, unless you have modelled the original Stockton and Darlington or Liverpool to Manchester as new! Of ten UK routes only three including this one are set over ten years ago it doesn't matter what trains are on the routes. Although the IOW is a bit of a concoction I suppose. And the WSR is not a historic route, I have had this argument several times. Can you drive a 45xx Prairie with a B set or a couple of Collet Corridors on an stopper from Taunton set in 1960 something, no. Can you take a Pannier with a mixed rake of wagons on the daily pick up goods, no. Can you drive a class 118 or 120 DMU in blue on a stopper from Taunton set in 1970 just before closure, no. Did BR run a motley collection of diesels in different liveries with rakes of chocolate and cream mark 1's at 25mph on local services on the branch, no, does a modern preserved railway, yes. Therefore as you say it is a recreation of the line now not as it was 50 years ago. Therefore it is a modern route.