I Think I Owe A Few People An Apology

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by ghawk2005, Apr 23, 2021.

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  1. ghawk2005

    ghawk2005 Well-Known Member

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    EDIT - I have since done some real life recordings and found that the gear change is not 63mph like it is in the game, it is actually 57-58mph. So naturally when I was hearing the gear change in the below video I thought it was reaching 63mph but unfortunately it is only reaching 58mph. After having travelled on them now and recorded actual speed and acceleration gps data myself my original instincts were correct. The game version is definitely 15-20 seconds too quick getting to 60mph.

    The apology still stands as I shouldn’t have been the way I was, but I still stand by my original points about it being too fast.


    ORIGINAL POST

    I got rather uptight a few months ago whilst expressing my frustration with the Class 166 acceleration.

    Whilst I don’t doubt that *most* examples now, getting on for 3 decades old are a bit clapped out so rather sluggish etc, Most of my examples have been slower than the game..... HOWEVER - I have found an example that is currently working the Paignton - Exmouth services ( and thanks to this fab YouTuber has uploaded the whole journey). I happen to know thatcoming out of Dawlish is pretty flat and I have to eat humble pie now because the gear change is literally bang on. (I feel very silly now) I always say anything within less than 10 seconds of real life is good enough for me. This was an amazing find because at least I know now that these units physically are capable of the TSW physics. (Must be a remanufactured / just serviced engine in this example)

    So, not only does this make me pretty happy and impressed I do have to make a big apology to all those I had a go at and most importantly the team at DTG. I have calmed down a bit since those posts.

    For the record I have since then, also done a few other acceleration measuring on the other stock and equally impressed because those are bang on too. (HST, 375, 395 etc ) Just part of the OCD in me. Haha

    Great work and apologises once again


    ( 27 min mark )
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2021
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  2. Cloadmcally

    Cloadmcally Active Member

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    I'm glad you had time to process your frustration, however, just a humble suggestion, if I may, conflict never is the right answer. In the future, were you to rightfully criticise something, your feedback might be best received if you don't phrase it as aggressively as you did in your 166 thread. I really advocate for a positive debate and constructive feedback, not only here but in life as well, I feel respect should be key, that way the discussion is easier to maintain! Nevertheless, it takes a big man to own up to your mistake and apologize, so props to you sir!
    Cheers :D
     
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  3. ghawk2005

    ghawk2005 Well-Known Member

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    Yes definitely, you’re right - I overstepped the mark and regret what I said. Point taken :)

    Thanks :)
     
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  4. Shaun123

    Shaun123 Well-Known Member

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    Believe it or not, units don’t just get sluggish over time.

    One units performance will differ from another, some might have minor power faults/WSP issues, traction faults, that are just masked through everyday running.
     
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  5. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Taking a positive from this, maybe we should suggest a randomisation of train performance to make things more interesting. Some of the older text based sims actually did this, where you could have a loco in anything from ex-Works to run down condition. I know from my time in various Control Offices over the years that some units are “good’ uns” while others are... well 158820 was nicknamed Damian for good reasons!
     
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  6. KiwiLE

    KiwiLE Well-Known Member

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    Good on you for thinking about your reactions ghawk2005!
    There are a good many posters in this forum that owe apologies to DTG, Rivet and other members, but would never do so.

    I have been in the boozy "what did I post last night?" camp on several occasions. We all want a railway sim to be as realistic and complete as can be, and that passion shows, sometimes a little too strongly.

    Great post though Gary, youtube is a gold mine of info. I have been binging on the BTF films, fantastic.
     
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  7. junior hornet

    junior hornet Well-Known Member

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    TBH, it’s water under the bridge but thanks for coming on here and saying that.

    Still like to hear Chopin in the style of Bach though :D
     
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  8. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Armstrong Powerhouse have implemented this on several of their TSC DLC, including varied power levels, braking levels and "clag", which are automatically assigned when the scenario starts. Some of those settings are changeable (via shortcut keys), but on the last one at least the power level was set and then not changeable... it means that the experience is different every time and you need to "learn the unit" as well as the route etc
     
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  9. ghawk2005

    ghawk2005 Well-Known Member

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    yes this would be a marvellous addition given the real life units vary so much. A fairly easy feature to implement too I would imagine.

    oh how I wish Armstrong Powerhouse would work with DTG on the sounds and physics. Would be a match made in heaven haha
     
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  10. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Don't know why you think it would be easy... It affects all sorts of things in game so the interactions would need extensive testing and so on. Easy to do in a non-career scenario in TSC because there's nothing to lose in a non-career scenario. Many people DO care about points in TSW2 it seems

    AP provided the sounds for the 465. That AP choose NOT to do work with TSW on various things is up to AP, not DTG
     
  11. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    Pretty sure they also supplied sounds for the 31 and the 377.
     
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  12. ghawk2005

    ghawk2005 Well-Known Member

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    EDIT - I have since done some real life recordings and found that the gear change is not 63mph in the game, it is actually 57-58mph. So naturally when I was hearing the gear change in the below video I thought it was reaching 63mph but unfortunately it is only reaching 58mph. After having travelled on them now and recorded actual speed and acceleration gps data myself my original instincts were correct. The game version is definitely 15-20 seconds too quick getting to 60mph.

    The apology still stands as I shouldn’t have been the way I was, but I still stand by my original points about it being too fast.
     
  13. BladesAndRazors

    BladesAndRazors Member

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    So the HST really needs 10miles to reach 125speeds per hour? What a bummer :)
     
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  14. ghawk2005

    ghawk2005 Well-Known Member

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    Yes it really does, Gradient depending obviously. But I’ve also measured real life GWR 2+4 gps readings on many occasions and they are spot on on the game. Very happy with the HST’s physics. The 166 not so much unfortunately. I’d love it to be fixed but I’m losing hope.
     
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  15. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    I thought it was 10 minutes, not 10 miles, and it takes the same time to reach 125 from 100, as it does to reach 100 from 0, although that may be just with the original Valenta engines.
     
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  16. Olaf the Snowman

    Olaf the Snowman Well-Known Member

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    How many coaches? 2+8 formation? More than 10 miles, more like 11-12 miles. Obviously the less (trailer) coaches, the faster the acceleration. To the point where 2+6 HST could keep to the same timings as a Voyager (approx 8ish miles to 125mph I believe).
     
  17. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    Apparently the Castle and ScotRail sets take off like a rocket.
     
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  18. ghawk2005

    ghawk2005 Well-Known Member

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    Well according to many drivers leaving Paddington with 2+8, observing speed limits - 125mph is achieved between airport junction and Iver apparently. Which the game simulates brilliantly.
    I have some gps and videos of 2+4 sets around Devon with speed and timings on overlay.
     
  19. Olaf the Snowman

    Olaf the Snowman Well-Known Member

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    Yes with only half the trailer weight, I would expect it to. I just tried it right now on TSW using scenario planner:
    (Leaving Slough heading towards Paddington)

    2+7 HST: Reach 125mph by the signal beyond Southall. 10.5 miles

    2+4 HST: Reach 125mph by the splitting distant signal just East of West Drayton. Just noticed that the splitting distant signal isn’t correct as both heads shouldn’t be showing yellow. 4.75 miles. That’s probably very similar to a Class 390 pendolino.

    B07F525E-BD74-4B6F-B879-B5074F974B5C.jpeg

    If you had a power car on its own, it would literally be like driving a rocket, 0-60 in a matter of seconds. Not the same but it would look something like this

     
  20. ghawk2005

    ghawk2005 Well-Known Member

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  21. ghawk2005

    ghawk2005 Well-Known Member

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    Cannot upload videos here so screenshot will be next best thing.

    Above photos were 2+4 on practically level ground 0 - 60 taking just over a minute. 1m5 - 1m10 bearing in mind drivers rarely ever go to full power straight away.
     
  22. martschuffing

    martschuffing Well-Known Member

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    Actually Rich supplied the 101 and 465 sounds, I do not think he implemented them as you can tell with the 101 but there is cooperation.
     
  23. ghawk2005

    ghawk2005 Well-Known Member

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    I knew about the 465 ( and class 31 also I believe ) but wasn’t aware of the 101.
     
  24. martschuffing

    martschuffing Well-Known Member

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    I was made aware of that by someone who complained about the sounds for the 101, they are just poorly implemented by DtG.
     
  25. DominusEdwardius

    DominusEdwardius Well-Known Member

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    The Class 101 sounds were not provided by AP, they were recorded by DTG themselves at the GCR.
     
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  26. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Are we talking about the UK Class 101 or the DB BR 101?
     
  27. DominusEdwardius

    DominusEdwardius Well-Known Member

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    UK was DTG, DB BR 101 was Maik and I think also maybe Linus but certainly not AP either which way.
     
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  28. martschuffing

    martschuffing Well-Known Member

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    My apologies then, that was from a moderator on UKTS that fed that information. Explains a lot.
     

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