I'm more familiar with Swedish trains that have in-cab signaling (called ATC) that will give advance warning sooner than 1 km before a red signal if the speed is above 130 km. With German trains on high speed sections that doesn't have LZB implemented I'm curious of how drivers stop their trains in time without getting a PZB penalty application, or worse: a SPAD. For example. If the train is running at 160 km/h and there is an upcoming red signal the driver will to stop their train in less than 1000m in the worst case scenario (say the advance signal is not visible from far away). For such a stop the deceleration required is around 1.1 m/s^2. Would the driver go into full service to achieve this? Are magnetic track brakes ever used in such a situation?
Sorry, I am not a real driver. In Train Sim World, using the DB BR101 with brakes in "R+Mg" setting, step 5 braking is sufficient to slow down to 60 km/h for the approach to the 500hz magnet and backing up to step 4 or 3 to get to 40 km/h, if you start braking ~50/100m before the signal. In TSW, with high performance EMUs going 140 km/h max, like the BR422 only ~60% of braking is usually required. I apologize I couldn't give a better answer, but I would believe, that step 6 and full service would be enough to stop in time, particularly using the R Braking setting, so you wouldn't use the eddy current brakes unless it's 100% necessary and the signals would be placed in such a way to make sure distant signals are visible, for example, I believe you could put the distant signal further away from the main signal if that means it's more visible from far away.
Yeah, I did some calculations and since the BR101 has electric brakes step 6 should be sufficient. I think the electric brakes are what makes the difference because without them the stopping distance in full service is longer than 1000m. I haven't had time to test 160 - 0 braking in the sim, yet, but I did encounter a Vr 0 at 150 km/h but it was visible maybe 200 meters before the distant signal so I had no issues stopping in time. Is there a particular scenario/timetable that has such a 160-0 stop? About moving the distant signal, I'm not sure but I think that could cause other issues. For example, if you increase the distance, you'd probably need to move the 1000 Hz magnet which means you still need very high brake force to go below 85 km/h in 24 sec, it would decrease the required deceleration below 85 km/h though.
I started to try to use PZB a couple of days ago and it's hard to avoid a PZB forced braking (Zwangsbremsung). If I travel at 150 km/h I tend to slow down very early and before reaching the first signal with 1000Hz PZB magnet - just to avoid heavy deceleration - especially if it's raining or snowing. How do real world actually drive when approaching a speed limit at high speed?
IC 2157 Duigsburg - Bochum between Essen and Bochum, you have a RE in front of you that stops at Wattenscheid on the 160km/h section.
I can give an interesting service as well: IC 2255 - Duisburg Hbf - Bochum Hbf. It has quite a few red signals due to (I think) trains going in the opposite direction having to cross your tracks. It also has an extra stop at Mülheim (Ruhr) which might not be realistic (?), but a fun addition. I noticed some bugs in this service, though, unfortunately. At least 2 red signals have no PZB 1000 Hz magnet activation.
Not easy to answer. As a real driver in italy (that is much similar to german ones than other countries) i can say that you need to brake as soon as you see the distant signal. The space between distan and main signal in germa is 1000m but normally if the route speed is 120kmh or more the space was incresed up to 1200/1300m. In real life is common to say that a signal can be "read" from a driver around 250m before so you have 1300 + 250m to stop the train. Now as you can see passengers train are usually light train and stop them within that space is possible. For exemple the br146 if you run at 160 and you see a distant yellow-yellow just apply up to 5 the brake staff, acknowledge the pzb magnet and continue to slow down below 85kmh. At this point, if you see that you reach this speed "soon" just release the brake to 2 or 3 and than you can approach the red main signal. Now in real life on high speed section there are the ks signal system that can help a bit, expetially with combined yellow signal in the middle. Also i want to say that the decelleration marker on the is a bit too strong, beacuse in real life we use to apply up to 80% of brakes expetially on downhill and it is not decrease the comfort of passengers. Take in mind that with the emergency brake can stop the train in ~650m from 160kmh. Also there is a thing that it isn't in the game, because if there is a "inespected" red signal or you need to wait for another train, the control cab signaller, call you in the cab and gives you all the information.
Just to clarify: In Germany high speed refers to speeds above 160km/h. All high-speed lines must be equipped with LZB or ETCS Level 2. The distant signals have a fixed distance to the main signal. Except for low-speed branch lines or technical restraints, this distance is always 1000m, whatever the speed limit is. To avoid an emergency brake application the drivers have to brake firmly with a setting between 5 and 7. The magnetic track brakes will only be activated with an emergency application. Trains with worse brake performance aren't allowed to drive the full 160km/h. As you might know, PZB has three different modes (O,M,U) on which the supervised speeds base on. The mode is chosen depending on the brake performance and also limits the max. speed of the train to ensure a safe stop before a red signal. Whilst PZB can only enforce three different speed limits a train can have an extra speed restriction chosen on the line it runs on. So even if the line is clear for 160km/h a train might only be allowed 140km/h because of bad braking performance.
Hmm. Was this on PC? When I pass the yellow/yellow Vr0 signal before Mülheim the yellow 1000 Hz indication never lights up in the cab, but I get a 500 Hz indication when passing that magnet at the station. For the second Vr0 (before Bochum iirc) the same thing happens, no yellow indication in the cab. EDIT: Did I understand you correctly, that you have experience with the TRAXX locomotives? If I understand correctly the TRAXX locomotives are quite similar to the BR101 in design (both came from Adtranz originally) so I presume they have the same airbrake lever design (1A,1B,2-7,VB). I remember being told by a driver that when you go from running to 1A the brake pipe pressure will not decrease, it only decreases when you go to 1B (down to 4.6 bar iirc) but if you release from 1B or higher (2-VB) to 1A the brake pipe pressure will go up to 4.8 bar instead of 5.0 bar. Is what I described above correct, and if so, is the BR101 unrealistic in this aspect since you get brake pipe reduction already at 1A (but going from 1B to 1A gives 5.0 bar).?
For the lamp on the cab is a bug of the br101 and you can see it only with the HUD. For the 1000hz magnet, i have acknowledge the yellow distant and the 1000hz lamp (on the HUD) starts to work. I have driven it on ps5.
With "high speed" I meant the upper region of what PZB allows (130-160 ish), I should've been more clear. Thanks for the informative answer!
You may want to take a look to the PZB section at the steam guide: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1693369538 I included a table with all relevant speed limits per mode. For an approach to stop what I normally do while driving is to apply 30-50% brake as soon as announcement signal is in sight till I pass the 1000Hz magnet (with heavy trains you most likely need 75-100% braking as soon as you see the signal). Then I keep reducing to the 1000Hz magnet speed limit (85/70/55) and while below that limit I continue reducing to the allowed speed to pass the 500Hz magnet (65/50/40) to prevent emergency brakes when passing 500Hz magnet (never forget this additional limit). If train is heavy or distance between announcement and stop signals is short (warning signal includes the small white light) I go directly to the final 500Hz supervised limit instead (45/35/25). In case of a speed reduction (yellow-green aspect) I do the same but after the 1000Hz magnet I smoothly reduce speed to the applicable speed limit displayed by signals/boards or to 40 in case no indication is given (typical speed limit for a switch). You normally have more time to brake in those cases. Cheers
