Brighton Mainline (victoria To Brighton) Questions

How different is a 377/3 from a /4, is it just one coach removed or are there other differences? As 3 coach 377s would add even more variety, but I suppose they would make timetabling much more complex with a mixture of 3 and 4 coach units.

 

Or depending on the timetable used, during Covid Southern used the 387s to operate southern services. Or they could add 377/1 where they change the headlights or I wouldn’t mind duplicating numbers along as the same number isn’t duplicated on the same train.

 

Externally, they're a basically 3 coach 377/1s. Idk if there are any other differences. At the moment, they're mostly operating Victoria-East Grinstead diagrams (2 /3s + 1 /1 or /4) although they sometimes did the peak time Guildford-London Bridge services prior to Covid.

 

I forgot they also do Redhill-Tonbridge

 

Ah, so not as simple as I thought, but a /3 would be nice if the East Grinstead services are included just to add variety to the Victoria end of the route.

 

A Class 377/1 are original batch Class 377 fleet with original style headlights** (separate tail/marker lights).
(*some of these have the 2+3 seating style identical to the seats in the Class 375/9 on SEHS).
(**the last few units also have the newer style headlights so are identical to the Class 377/4).
A Class 377/2 is a Class 377/4 with a pantograph fitted for dual voltage capability.
A Class 377/3 is a Class 377/1 in a 3-car formation with first class at one end only and original style headlights.
A Class 377/4 are the second batch units with newer combined LED tail/marker lights.
A Class 377/5 is identical to a Class 377/2 but operated by First Capital Connect, then Thameslink and now Southeastern.
A Class 377/6 is the late model electrostar with more similarities to a Class 387 including new interior and new windows.
A Class 377/7 is a dual voltage Class 377/6 with a pantograph fitted.

Most of Southern's Class 377 fleet operate interchangeably except the newer /6 and /7 which tend to operate more suburban services nearer London but do occasionally operate down to Brighton and the south coast. Both the /2 and /7 normally operate services from East Croydon to Watford Junction & Milton Keynes since they need dual voltage for this route. The /5 used to operate frequently on the Brighton Mainline with Thameslink/FCC on Bedford to Brighton services before being replaced by the Class 700.

And the interiors of the /1* to /5 are all the same. (The newer /6 and /7 use the same ironing board seats as in the Class 387 & 700).

 

It’s entirely plausible then that a few adjustments to the headlights could see a whole new sub-class of 377 introduced to the route.

 

I'm not sure why people are stretching for explanations for why Thameslink or somebody else have refused to license the 700, when there's no evidence whatsoever that anyone has refused a license for it! The bare fact that DTG have not made a 700 proves nothing at all: there are 1000's of trains DTG haven't modeled.

 

That's a very good point, I never noticed that in the 700s, but it's true that there's at least 4 different coaches just from what I've seen

 

I don't have the evidence here, but I did hear the team hint that TL did not give licenses in one of the streams.

 

Yes I heard that too, it was either in the SEHS 3rd stream or the 465 stream

 

I know the 387s are newer and have some external differences, but will there be any other differences between them and the 377s? Do they have slightly different sounds or different performance figures?

I should know myself, I've seen plenty of 387s irl before but I've never thought about how they compare to 377s.

 

I believe the traction motor sounds are louder internally, and I think performance is slightly better. Bear in mind the current sounds for the Electrostar is far from perfect. So they’re already wrong as they are.

 

That's true. I'd like to say they'll be fixed for the route but I highly doubt it.

 

377/3s and the earliest 377/1s have a completely different interior as well, 2+2 seats throughout.
The middle batch of 377/1s has 2+3 seats in every coach.
However the last 20 or so 377/1s are identical to the /4s

 

That’s only true if each train does only one service and is then never used again and the ones near the end of the 24 hour period are sat there unused for 20-odd hours waiting for their allocated single service. That won’t happen. On the other hand if there are 71 Class 377’s on the route at any one time, there won’t be room to move. That won’t happen either. I think some trains will be used more than once, as that is what happens in the real world as well. There will be plenty of trains to do a good timetable.

 

Yet Thameslink have licensed Southern and Gatwick Express

 

I have seen it on GWE, I recall passing the same unit twice on the same journey There are not enough class 166's to run all those services, there were only around 21 of them. That is why I cannot understand why DTG didn't model the class 165 either instead or as well as the class 166.

Personally I would rather they avoided going down the road of duplicating unit numbers, although on a longer and busier route it might not be noticeable.

 

If the reason for ECW not having a realistic timetable was the fact that there weren’t enough 377’s you can guarantee that the issue will repeat on the BML.

That’s the info from DTG anyway, no use debating here.

 

If there's about 70 377/4s and 20 387s to pick from... am I missing something? That's still... about 45 consists to rotate on the route... That to me seems enough to make a busy timetable. One unit does not do one service and vanish from existence, it continues to work throughout the day and 45 trains at once I think can cover a route fairly well.

 

As I said above, this is the issue that existed in ECW, I don’t know anything about why it’s an issue, only that it was.

 

Is it though? I don’t know where you picked that up from. Unless DTG were trying to put more services in than the real timetable (for the services that are depicted) they will never run out of available trains just like the real TOC won’t. If DTG wanted though, they could make a thousand 377’s, as it’s only a number superimposed on the same model. If the game engine can’t handle a lot of trains simultaneously, then that’s a different problem and is compounded by having more types of train. I don’t know where you’ve got this idea from that there weren’t enough 377’s, as it bears no resemblance to the reality of the situation.

 

Sometime last year when the London Vic - Seaford services were discussed, they were left out because of that reason.

The number of 377’s will be reduced by the fact that each consist will be 12 car too, so my assumption is pretty much that unless they’ve worked around whatever issue they had then, if they can’t run a fully populated ECW, how are they going to do that with the entire Mainline to London, along with AI at Brighton for SCW/ECW services.

I said this the other day though, unless DTG go into a conversation regarding the technicalities of Rush Hour, this is all just up in the air.

 

Well the issue is with the 377/4. Southern does have enough rolling stock, but it’s services use 377/1s, 377/3s, and 313s as well on these services. It gives them a lot more flexibility. On the TSW East Coastway, the 377s handle the East Coastway Services Ofc, but also the plethora of AI Services that travel off-map, like the West Coastway or Brighton-London 3 unit trains. And considering DTG only have 1 subclass to play with, they could plausibly run out of trains in a way Southern wouldn’t IRL.

 

The Thameslink brand is owned by the Department of Transport and licenced to Govia.
https://trademarks.ipo.gov.uk/ipo-tmcase/page/Results/1/UK00001556129
Maybe that's why Govia haven't licensed it to Dovetail

 

The Department of Transport also own the British Rail trademarks, which they have licensed to DTG.

 

377/4s numbered as /1s have been confirmed.

 

Where?

 

On the stream.

 

In that case, bravo.
In this way we will see everything a little more crowded, which in the end that was what we all wanted.
Greetings

 

According to Matt, the 387 *might* have new sounds

 

Hope it has, sounds different to the 377 (more like the Talent 2 tbh)

 

Neither of which OWN the 700s. Maybe the block is with the owner rather than the operators

 

I seem to remember someone once saying Siemens requires that the latest Desiro designs be licensed for such things as these. That may not be true, though.

 

If I heard correctly, Matt said the 377 will be upgraded to have the latest PIS technology on the BML route - I'm not sure what this means but hopefully it'll mean better looking displays/font and more functionality. Such as displaying calling points on the side displays.

 

I wasn't aware that some Class 377/1s have 2+3 seating, in which case the same seats from the Class 375/9 in SEHS can be used.
The rest of the /1 & the /3 definitely have the same seats as in the Class 377/4 though.
I also forgot the last few Class 377/1s have the newer style headlights (in which case these only need renumbering from the /4).
I will modify my previous comment accordingly.

 

I thought that was in reference to the 387

 

I wonder if the 377/1 will have the smaller headlights circle ones

 

Promising words - "The London - Brighton timetable will be, I think, by far the busiest timetable we've ever made in the game"

 

Some freight would be nice.

 

OMG. Hopefully!

 

I hope that the summer update will bring some optimisation improvements. I can imagine my standard ps4 will struggle a bit with this haha

 

No, Matt said it's just the 377/4 numbered in the 3771xx series.

 

As Govia Thameslink Railway owns Southern, Gatwick Express and Thameslink, couldn’t Thameslink services operate on the shared section of track? Similar to how it’s done in SEHS. Adding Thameslink would be great as it’s not only services coming down from Bedford & Luton but there’s also the Canal Tunnel services from Great Northern destinations.

 

Anyone else wondering about route linking. It seems they’re loosely gearing up for it but some individuals have done it already. I’d be keen to find out who has done it successfully

 

ECW (and WCW?) AI traffic will be featured at the Brighton end of the line, however the two routes will not be connected, so it’ll simply be a portal.

 

To be honest, without the linking line to Lewes (which there's little point in them doing anyway), there'd be absolutely no point in merging BML and ECW unless you're planning some weird diversion scenario.

 

You could drive a train from Victoria to Eastbourne and vice versa, which happens or at least happened in real life.

 

Which to be honest is perfectly adequate if needing more vehicles to populate the timetable. Not even AP with their Class 375/377 EP gets all the subclass variants with the interiors correct, so I'm happy to compromise on this.

 

Thameslink don't own the trains so I think that the IP issue isn't with Thameslink, but with the train owners