Lirr Initial Feedback [v1.34] (ps5)

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by Mattty May, May 13, 2021.

  1. Mattty May

    Mattty May Guest

    So, I’ve finally managed to play with both the M3 and M7 in LIRR since the 1.33 update on Tuesday and 1.34 update on Wednesday.

    Bitterly disappointed with the sound. Whilst there has been an improvement in the traction motor sound on the M7, I’m not convinced it’s at or better than the sound quality in TSW 2020. The M7 was one of the best sounding trains in the game and still should be. There was absolutely no M7 traction sound in the route intro.

    Whilst there has also been improvement in the M3 cab sound, the horn is still wrong and something still feels off and unpleasant. The door closing sound on the M3 is the same, but much lower in volume than the M7.

    There isn’t a significant difference in sound between open and closed windows.

    In the case of both trains, there is barely (if any track) sound, although every now and again, you will get rail clatter.

    In addition to the sound, I immediately noticed the 3rd rail supports loading in at quite close range to the train. It’s very distracting and needs work.

    Lighting seems better and I like that PIS has been added to stations. However, people familiar with the route have said this isn’t true to life.

    I am grateful for the work TrainSim-Adam and his team have done, but LIRR still seems far from the standard it needs to be at. And, the work Adam has done has seemingly messed up the signalling and dispatcher and introduced new bugs that weren’t there before.

    I haven’t looked at Rapid Transit yet.

    The problem we have now is that LIRR is unlikely to be touched again for a while seeing as Adams team has already moved forward some considerable distance.

    I must really question how the developers and QA testers do not find the issues us players find, often within seconds, of starting to play with the update. It just baffles the mind that these things can’t have been noticed by them as they’re so obvious. I must admit, I’m starting to lose quite a bit of faith that the routes we love will ever reach the minimum standard we expect, and frankly deserve.

    I’m very much interested to see how MSB turns out as the locomotives on that route currently sound atrocious.

    Maybe each pass through of the existing routes should focus on specific areas and not too many things at once, for example:

    Pass 1: Sound
    Pass 2: Signalling
    Pass 3: Scenery/Stations/Buildings
    Pass 4: Timetable
    Pass 5: Train Modelling
    Pass 6: New Features (PIS, etc)
    Pass 7: Lighting
    Pass 8: Passengers

    Either that, or just focus on a single route at a time, giving each route the time needed, rather than trying to improve multiple routes at the same time.

    Whilst impressive, the patch notes for 1.33/1.34 were massive and extensive, which makes it difficult to know if all of the ‘improvements/fixes’ have applied and worked successfully.
     
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  2. borg#1850

    borg#1850 Well-Known Member

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    I am wondering if everything is fully tested on all platforms or just a few. As you say it seems odd that in a short time, more bugs are found or things that worked are now broken. Having been involved in software testing for many years, who is testing this after the programmers fix something. User Acceptance Testing can take a long time, as UAT testers will do things in an order that might be unexpected by programmers. It does seem to be sad that with such a nice program, on a subject we love that there are such issues. I play trains or run them to de-stress from the life around me, not to get more frustrated with bugs.
     
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  3. Slemcer

    Slemcer Well-Known Member

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    This situation is just the opposite of a win-win, let's call it lose-lose ...
    We as customers are losing confidence in DTG and the bug fixing process, and as a result we will be even more reluctant to buy new DLC. And that's when DTG loses revenue.
    I'd have expected that the management is aware of this downward spiral, but still they more often than not deliver sub-par.
     
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  4. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Regarding the sound issue on the M7. DTG did not release the full update package for lirr at the same time hence why the sounds are still broken. They didn't explain why though. They are the only company that I know that releases partial patches and not the full package. The full patch will be released today.

    The PIS on the lirr is modelled incorrectly. It's a copy paste from sehs which had me suprised since they said it took longer to work on since it was a different style system and they had to get a designer to design a brand new system since it's not the same as a U.K/German system. The pis wouldn't even say NY Penn if the train is going to Penn Station. It would say Penn Station. In America we don't say calling at either. We say stopping at
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2021
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  5. Mattty May

    Mattty May Guest

    There have already been two patches released this week, 1.33 and 1.34. Is it a definite there’ll be a further patch today?
     
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  6. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Well I did get an email when I submitted a ticket that the full update package didn't release and a further patch will be released. It should be today since HBL is out but if not today then it should be tommorrow as I was told it will release sometime this week
     
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  7. Turbojugend

    Turbojugend Well-Known Member

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    The LIRR update has been worked on for months—with over a month in testing—and they decide to release the complete update in two stages? Something about that doesn't make sense. Why not just wait another week and release the whole thing in its entirety?
     
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  8. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I don't get why either tbh.
     
  9. Nielsen

    Nielsen Well-Known Member

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    The long wait for this update came down to a bottleneck in testing, and then it finally got released as if testing never took place. The problems I found in just 30 minutes actually blew my mind.
     
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  10. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I managed to find the bug with Port Washington Services at penn station in only 5 minutes of playing
     
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  11. ixofxiii

    ixofxiii Well-Known Member

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    About the PIS, the LI has multiple types of signs. You have one (close to what's shown, not exact) that's at most stations. Penn station has it's own (LED display) and Jamaica has the newest ones (LED that also shows an image of the number of cars and how crowded east one is. For them to model each type would be insane.
    Yes, there's still some issues. My personal issue is track routing. They finally fix four of them (the same route, different times) and finally fixed the junction by Belmont. But I bet they didn't do it in the other direction. If a train os running express from Jamaica to penn, then it uses the middle tracks. It's not just one direction. Ronkonkoma trains run express from Jamaica-hickville only stopping at Mineola while it's the Huntington trains that run local. But with all that said, this IS an old route from when they were first starting this and it got ported over to the new engine.
    They'll never get it exactly right. It won't be as good as the newer routes.
     
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  12. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    While that is true, one could still expect that the display that is modeled actually match one RL LIRR type, rather than a copy-paste of a British PIS that even uses UK English!
     
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  13. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Yeh I personally wouldn't mind if they used one of the pis style systems from lirr. Them not being able to make every exact style would be understandable (even though BKL and SEHS have two different looking pis boards) but they should've at least took one design and used it for the whole route. It's the MTA Long Island Railroad, not Southeastern Railway
     
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  14. borg#1850

    borg#1850 Well-Known Member

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    You should try Modelling Canadian Railroads. :( Many Company's just respray their USA Railroad model with a Canadian livery and sell it as Canadian loco. There are "So" many differences. Good bless Rapido Trains who has raised the bar way above Atlas and other modelling companies heads. :D
     
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  15. MrbKlegend89

    MrbKlegend89 Well-Known Member

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    My issue as well is the lousy timetables for each branch in the game....starting with that useless shuttle run to/from Woodside...u couldn't extend the route fully to Port Washington??or at least Great Neck??then u have trains running every hour? But this is advertised as "US busiest railroad", yet looks dead...we need updated timetables with more services.....now the Main Line...it says Ronkonkoma but yet exits to the portal on the Huntington line..which I would've been fine if they did the entire Huntington line and also either entire Ronkonkoma(or at least Farmingdale) just to I guess save memory....Then we have in the game more Penn to/from Hempstead services which IS NOT accurate in real life...and then as usual MORE GOOFY bugs after the update....Now speaking of tracks...its nice that they fixed the eastbound trains going beyond Woodside and all to stay in one track lane at the Harold interlocking...and the direct Penn-Jamaica express services are using the express tracks(including the Ronkonkoma express ones using the RIGHT tunnels leaving Penn)......but uhhh sounds are still broken....u have trains at Penn Station using TWO tracks in a station boarding...nice to get the PIS board system except this is not the accurate one not the SEHS(UK) -___-...to conclude your last statement, they will NEVER get it right!!I'm trying my best to believe in this company as they are trying but I feel at this point they barely care or just dont.
     
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  16. Dam

    Dam New Member

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    Honestly you could've played this route a month ago, played it again today, and not notice anything different except for the rip-off PIS boards. The sounds are still off, some signals don't work, and we still don't have destination boards. For an update that took like 4 months from announcement to release this is really a disappointment. And who is testing these things before they release? Helen Keller? You could play this route for two minutes and already notice bugs/things that are wrong. At least some of the routing of the trains is better.
     
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  17. xblackwolf90

    xblackwolf90 Well-Known Member

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    The route seems to run smoother for me, particularly around Atlantic Terminal and New York Penn.

    My main issue is with the sounds. I was expecting quite a big improvement, but I can't say I've noticed that much difference.

    The M7 still has the very obvious looping audio, with very clear cut outs as you're accelerating. Several cars along the train also have no traction sounds at all. In one instance on an 8 car service, only the 1st and 7th cars in the formation had any traction motor sounds.

    The M3 has some major audio issues. When using the free cam, the sounds keep cutting out as the train goes past. Also, the in-cab air con sounds from the M3 play in the M7 every time an M3 goes past. It's the same issue that was present in the early days of SHS.

    On the plus side, the skies are better, frame rate is improved, track rendering is better, and the speed on the HUD and the train desk are now aligned. Some good work done, but it feels unfinished and lacking polish. The audio is the biggest let down for me.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2021
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  18. ixofxiii

    ixofxiii Well-Known Member

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    You hit a lot of great points
    The issue with the amount of traffic has been mentioned in the streams. They have limited memory to add more trains to the route (consoles have Lees memory than PCs, so across the board, the benchmark of what they can run is limited by the consoles hence how they are mentioning optimization of layers in The streams everytime it's brought up. They are indeed though, off on the actual schedules. Ronkonkoma trains run express along the main from Jamaica to Hicksville only stopping at Jamaica while the Huntington trains run local. So what they got wrong was the train's destination since everything else is Huntington line based.
    Hempstead indeed is a Brooklyn route (like mine, the Far Rockaway) and only sees limited Penn station service during peak. So another miss.
    I just finished a few Hempstead trips and wtf did they do to the atc on it? Did they really put reds at the ends of each station until you finish boarding? Why? They fixed the signals at Hempstead itself but messed up the rest of the branch. I've learned to adjust to it but damn.
    They do need more tracks available at Penn. 13-21 are the LIRR tracks. Use them.
    And yes, the PIS. They stated a while agobits a copy paste from SEHS. But i can't get mad at that. 1)it works 2)it's a ported route. Not much you can do from scratch without building it all over from scratch. And 3)there about 3 or 4 different types of PIS screens on the system. Jamaica and Penn alone has their own.
    But they could add destination readouts on the actual trains (M7s only).
    Now of they can just route us down the express tracks from Jamaica to Floral Park. For all the express trains skipping Hollis and QV.
     
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  19. MrbKlegend89

    MrbKlegend89 Well-Known Member

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    Ohh yea let's not forget since when did certain Hempstead trains run direct express between Floral Park and Hempstead(9am to Hempstead and I forget the other one in the evening going to Penn Station...and the 13-21 tracks in Penn Station the Hempstead and Port Washington(useless Woodside shuttle) should switch tracks -___-...ohhh and nice going by DTG for the Suburban Sunset scenario having the train arrive on Track 7 at Penn Station, which is not anywhere near accurate in real life lol....what I'm concluding is this dlc was unfortunately a terrible job...some people asking for a Metro North dlc for tsw2 and I'm like oh no please not...they might mess that up too
     
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  20. borg#1850

    borg#1850 Well-Known Member

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    One wonders if we presume that people at DTG or Rivet are actually Railway interested people and know the hell what we are all on about. The other side is not enough detail work is being done into the realism of the game modules they create. It could be "This looks good" so they do that. Just from the mistakes those in the know have found, it would be interesting to see what would come out of it. This could be its just a game first and other stuff second? Would we all be prepared to pay more for a game that has less bugs and more realism and had been well thought out and tested?
     
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  21. DB628

    DB628 Well-Known Member

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    Why there always Red Signals at the Stations now since the Update
     
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  22. Slemcer

    Slemcer Well-Known Member

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    I'd pay more for more authenticity, but the other details I expect to be included in the current price.
     
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  23. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Also services To From Hempstead to Atlantic Terminal Brooklyn are 8 car trains not 6.

    But I disagree that they couldn't do much with the pis on lirr. The pis on rapid transit is accurate to what it would be in reality so all they would have to do is just change the design for the one on lirr and what was being said about how they had to redesign pis for this route, that led people to think that an accurate looking pis was gonna be in place. BKL ans sehs have two different style pis on those routes so surely they could make the designs for lirr accurate. Heck if they only did one accurate design, I wouldn't complain
     
  24. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Same here especially when they advertise this sim has having authentic routes and locos
     
  25. ixofxiii

    ixofxiii Well-Known Member

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    So... You want them to head back out here to the us, and copy exactly the 3 to 5 different kinds of PIS? also factor in that they ported this from the old engine. I'm surprised they killed it off at all honestly.
    And there are some 6 car sets on the Hempstead. But most of the time, they are 8 car sets with 2 cars closed. Remember, not all tracks there fit 8. What's ridiculous is the 6-car Pt Wash trains. Now those are never 6 cars.
    We also have to remember something: they have mentioned that there are indeed enthusiasts working at DTG (like Matt), but they are all overseas in London. Naturally, they'll have the ease of access to British and other European rail while coming out here is an issue and they have mentioned many times that they will go to "artistic creativity" for many things they can't find/re-create.

    Here in NYC, Transit has simulators by Microsoft for Train Operators to train on before getting into an actual train and even those aren't 100% accurate. And this is a PC/Console game.
     
  26. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    This is why I can’t stand watching their streams, if their community teams’ train knowledge is anything to go off, there must only be a handful of people who know more than the simplest basics.

    DTG have been in the business of train simulators for well over 10 years, and we’re still seeing amateur mistakes.
     
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  27. MrbKlegend89

    MrbKlegend89 Well-Known Member

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    I can't stand how they ruined the Pt Wash line...6 cars???they operate 8-12 cars and they could've had a whole Pt Wash(or to Great Neck) to fill this dlc out, they still can't get the signals and sounds right..
     
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  28. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    You are aware that there are images and videos on how the pis on the MTA Long Island Railroad works right? Since DTG use videos and images to model certain things, all they would have to do is model the pis based on what videos and photos show. They wouldn't have to travel to New York State just to model pis. I'm sure they didn't travel to France to model the PIS on LGV and that has more detail than the ones on the MTA Long Island Railroad in real life. I also said I would be fine if they modelled one style system as used in real life to the game. They modelled 2 different styles in SEHS and BKL though. Yes there are indeed some 6 car trains on the Hempstead Branch to Atlantic Terminal, but they are mostly 8 cars like you said. I use the Hempstead Branch quite often to visit family in Hempstead from the City. They probably did 6 cars on Port Washington instead of the normal 8, 10 and 12 car since it really is only a quick shuttle service and probably to make penn station look a bit more busier.

    Also it being ported isn't a excuse. Rapid Transit was ported and they got the PIS accurate mostly
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2021
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  29. Dam

    Dam New Member

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    The PIS is only different at Penn and Jamaica, pretty much every other LIRR station uses identical systems. It wouldn't be the most difficult thing to do.
     
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