Set Faces To Stunned :d

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by ralphy_porter2000, May 18, 2021.

  1. ralphy_porter2000

    ralphy_porter2000 Active Member

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  2. Mattty May

    Mattty May Guest

    I wonder why this isn’t said in the official forums too.
     
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  3. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    I think the stage is being set for them to be all serious and discuss recent issues and processes.

    All the stuff we’ve heard before, which inevitably leads to a ‘sincere’ discussion and a couple of weeks after it’ll be back to the same old thing.

    Frankly I’m bored of hearing the same old excuses just for nothing to change in the long run, which is why I don’t watch.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2021
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  4. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    I think it would be a faux pas to discuss all the new upcoming stuff with all the furore lately which may be why. Get that put to bed first.
     
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  5. ralphy_porter2000

    ralphy_porter2000 Active Member

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    "I think it would be a faux pas to discuss all the new upcoming stuff with all the furore lately which may be why. Get that put to bed first."
    Totes agree I could not see Adam or Sam taking up the entire show generating interest, enthusiasm and confidence in upcoming products with the problems of the last release, but I hope the roadmap isnt going to be taken up for the full stream with a corrections list after every release.
    Just to clarify my view, I do think its 100% essential that there is a discussion re high priority corrections with new releases and this very much falls under the remit of what I think everyone wants out of the roadmap and the stream. I also appreciate that not every RM stream can be 'bumper packed' with lots of reveals, but without any news per-say or indication of progress for balance, there is a danger of it focusing more like a regular post-release damage limitation exercise...Again just for clarity, I think DTG are one of the better companies for listening and fixing and I also love seeing this, but for the number of projects that you have on the roadmap you would think that once a fortnight as something is feature locked then a random particular detail could be confirmed or briefly talked about somewhere in the stream. As for the counterargument that some use re spoiling surprises or the big reveal I would say this not relevant as we have seen the real thing and previous products have set the bar for expectation - OK steam being a good exception to this secrecy as it is significantly different and a milestone for you as much as us.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2021
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  6. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Don't see why there would BE any changes except for HHL dropping off as next release...
    This is hardly groundbreaking news
     
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  7. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    Agree with the above ralphy_porter2000 . I know I've been guilty of a couple of posts recently whereby I've not been my usual DTG fan boy. I do love the product, I love the trains, I think visually the game is getting better on some routes and the mods are bringing them to life with proper maps, posters etc but I just wish there was a little more quality.

    I think I've just spent too much time on the forum, too much time in the game/sim/ whatever you want to call it and genuinely passionate about it going in the right direction.
     
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  8. maxipolo12

    maxipolo12 Well-Known Member

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    That Studio :D :D :D

    1st April every day
     
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  9. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    They´ll probably address the issues with the RT and LIRR update. I just hope they will actually make changes instead of giving false reassurances all the time. It´s annoying to hear the same old excuses but nothing changes
     
  10. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    Exactly, unless Adam's team had finished what they're doing on Bakerloo/WSR, or Skyhook had finished Cane Creek, I struggle to think, bar Hamburg coming off, what would change anyway. The core team will be working on RH, Adam will be fixing the recent update, the 313 and Cathcart will be with QA.

    "Breaking News:
    2 cars have bumped into each other in the dead of night on a country road in the middle of nowhere. Lets cut straight to the newsroom for more details on this shock incident."
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2021
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  11. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    "No changes to the Roadmap this week, but there's still plenty going on.

    Since the last update to the Roadmap we have released a major update to the game and the new Hamburg - Lübeck route. This marks the point where we have largely caught up with where we expected to be by this time. As such, movement through the Roadmap and new additions should happen at a more predictable pace from here on. This is also why there are no changes to any project's position in the Roadmap this week.

    That said, neither the game update or new route release went without a hitch and our focus for today's Roadmap stream will be on addressing the concerns players have raised since these releases."

    TRAIN SIM WORLD 2 ROADMAP- 18 MAY 2021 (dovetailgames.com)
     
  12. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    All we heard about LIRR was that it was taking longer due to having to implement a newly designed PIS…which turned out to be the UK pis with the clock moved to the left.

    Then it was sorry it’s taking a while to get the updates out due to a QA backlog, but we get the update and it’s full of bugs which were found on a large scale within seconds of starting a service, meanwhile things that were supposed to be addressed were not adequately done so (M7 sounds is one major example).

    Then we have to deal with a community team that have, for a large part, a seemingly large lack of knowledge regarding almost every topic discussed on stream, and a senior producer that is constantly unsure of what his team has actually done.

    Im not trying to be personal but it’s hard not to be when the specific job roles are tied to specific people.

    The attitude of DTG lately is poor, we’ve had lies, pettiness and a largely un-interested series of interactions lately, but the thing that annoys me most is the way they act asif they are new to train simulators, even though they’ve been the leading developer in the genre for a very long time.

    Is this too harsh? Probably, but the “don’t like it don’t buy it” attitude is frankly boring and getting TSW no where, and I don’t see why they deserve community support at this point.
     
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  13. TheShotte

    TheShotte Well-Known Member

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    I wholeheartedly agree with this statement.
     
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  14. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    Yeah it is getting a bit tiresome and to someone new could speak "We're not too sure about this tbh".

    The 'You don't have to buy it' argument is best used when people say "oMg SiX GrAnD oF dLc" - like no one goes into Tesco and literally buys one of everything, but it should not be used in promotional material of a new thing.

    Can you imagine if ITV were promoting a new high budget drama and at the end of the trailer said "Starts 9PM on Monday, but if you prefer a game show then don't bother, Challenge will be doing a repeat of something"?

    (I realise this is a very British post :D )
     
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  15. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Except that's what I would (subconsciously) be doing. OK so ITV are doing yet another crappy period drama, I wonder whether there's something better on the other side or if I'll spend a more enjoyable evening doing something like plucking my nose hairs with some cooking tongs
     
  16. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah don’t like it don’t buy it should apply to things such as, if you don’t like German content don’t buy it.

    Saying don’t like it don’t buy it because you don’t put the correct rolling stock on a route is a whole other thing, or if there are bugs or the plethora of other reasons they like to throw that spiel at.

    It’s such a bizarre stance for any business to take with a new product.
     
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  17. Shaun123

    Shaun123 Well-Known Member

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    I don’t like the “don’t like it, don’t buy it” attitude but the point of the streams of Route Previews, is not only to show off the product, but allow people to make informed decisions, so from the past 2 streams of HHL for example, people who saw it, warts and all, with some of the bugs, were able to make an informed decision, is this for me?

    If they bought it, and then complained about the bugs, you knew what you were getting.

    I was disappointed by the PZB bugs in HHL, which I didn’t pick up on from the stream, but it will be addressed and I’m glad I bought it.
     
  18. lukereynolds1

    lukereynolds1 Well-Known Member

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    I get really annoyed when they say " If you don't like it, don't buy it". Although I think it would be fairer for this statement to be made to those who don't own the game or any dlc already (even though it's still not right), it completely ignores how many people have invested a lot of money into the game, it's many people's hobby and passion, and many people wait months and months in anticipation for a release that they want to see. To then say "if you don't like it, don't buy it", is a kick in the teeth. What next... Wait more months in anticipation for something to come out only to be disappointed. Such a shame when there is so much potential
     
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  19. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    Exactly, but at the same time that's just stating the obvious (maybe I should caveat that the aformentioned fictional trailer also contains an actor completely flubbing their lines). I have no interest in American trains, and in TS1 I only own American routes because they came with bundles that contained something I wanted (eg I own Marias Pass because it came in like some big mega bundle including Munich-Augsburg, London - Peterborough, the Class 91, the BR423 and the A4 pack, plus 2 American locos and NEC, which I wasnt interested in for like £50). I fully intend for my TSW collection to be the same.

    Yup. I've only bought 4 DLCs since TSW2 came out - Munich, the BR155, Ruhr Seig Nord (which I only got for the 155) and Hauptstreke Rhein Ruhr. I'm currently waiting for Southeastern to go on sale, so I've been waiting since literally October for them to release a DLC that I think is truely worth it and is interesting to me (most likely Cathcart and/or the 313 - just hope they haven't messed them up).
     
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  20. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I agree with what you said and I don´t think your statement is harsh
     
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  21. pacificorca#1435

    pacificorca#1435 Active Member

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    I get the impression from the streams that a lot of our issues with communication may be reflective of the structure of the TSW development teams - though I recognize this is conjecture. I get the impression that the community team as well as folks like Matt and Adam somehow aren't getting needed information from the development groups. When an issue is encountered in the preview stream (such as PZB magnets being missing), the response is usually along the lines of "I'll go ask the team what happened" and then we don't typically get the answer. That's incredibly concerning because the customer-facing members of the team should be getting that sort of information before a stream. Surely leaders of development teams should be having weekly or daily meetings to cover any issues so that they don't look foolish in front of their bosses or customers. Maybe this is made worse by working from home but it still suggests a major rethinking of communication strategy is in order.

    Some humble recommendations: I think a weekly forum post from Matt or Adam or anyone else with a wrap-up of questions encountered on stream/forums with the responses they got from their development teams would be well appreciated. A proper bug tracking system with a public-facing component would be excellent. Moreover, a QA testing system that involves more people seems overdue, if that means going the early access route so be it.
     
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  22. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Have you seen any of the release streams for TSC recently? Watching the community people trying to preview the route without knowing which locos, which stations, or even the PRICE of the thing a week before release is frankly an embrassment.

    I agree with you, when they know it's going to be released they should know pretty much everything included, that everything is compatible with the latest technologies (ie scenario planner and livery designer) etc etc
     
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  23. LucasLCC

    LucasLCC Well-Known Member

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    I strongly agree with this. I've never known any company take this approach, as every single company in existence wants to sell their products to you. DTG should want the customer to buy their products, and instead of adopting the "don't like it don't buy it" line, they should instead think "what would make the customer want to buy it".

    Yes, not all products will appeal to everyone, however the current approach only serves to annoy us.
     
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  24. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    I personally don't mind if the roadmap doesn't have much new to show us for now. As others have said, they should rather take their time and give more focus to properly fixing their current products.

    For starters, hopefully they really fix RT and LIRR.
     
  25. lukereynolds1

    lukereynolds1 Well-Known Member

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    Completely. They should really try to sell us what is special about DLC and why we should buy it. Funnily enough, when asked what makes a new dlc interesting and special on preview streams, they find it a difficult question to answer, and tend to give strange answers that would barely be recognisable in the game or really make little difference for most players. A common example is "this was a popular route in train simulator", or " In train simulator you had this, but now you have this". Having not owned or ever played train simulator, alongside a large proportion of the community, interest is instantly lost. A very odd approach to promoting something
     
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  26. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    In TSW 2020, I was open to buying DLC that contained unfamiliar experiences and route locales, if I didn’t enjoy it, I knew that was on me, but in a lot of circumstances I found a new enjoyable experience, that experience being German rail, however with TSW2, their attitude has shifted from providing authentic experiences, to bug riddled, sloppy DLC with a serious lack of passion, all while telling me not to bother trying it, so you know what, this year I haven’t. I have skipped 4 DLC’s this year that I would of otherwise been open to trying.

    So shout out to DTG for saving me £94.99 whilst simultaneously pushing their lack of passion onto me.
     
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  27. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    What TSC release streams? ;)

    Wasn't the last preview WCML South, a route which sent alarm bells ringing everywhere, emphasised by the fact Sam literally could not bring himself to defend it? Thankfully they patched that one up and it's a nice route now.
     
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  28. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    That´s why I say sometimes that just because a product is or was popular in Train Simulator 2021 (which is a pc exclusive game) does not mean it will be popular in tsw2. HHL was popular in ts2021 and has great reviews but clearly it is not a popular route in tsw2. Most players play tsw2 on consoles as well and probably have never played ts2021 before
     
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  29. LucasLCC

    LucasLCC Well-Known Member

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    Up until this point I've picked up all of the TSW 2 content (although some I have waited for a discount). However, going forward this will change. Arosa is the last rivet in the coffin for Rivet, and Hamburg is the last nail for DTG. I'll hold off for content that really interests me, and failing that I'll waste my money on some of the other games I enjoy.
     
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  30. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    Tbh I wonder if there were more people interested in watching Sam interrogate Adam than people interested in changes to the roadmap. I must admit all I'd have been passingly interested in is what trains we'll be getting with the Cornwall route.

    It feels a bit like that phase of TS1 when they would literalyl churn out a new DLC every week or so, and some of them were absolutely dire (Thinking of the FCC321, which looked really strange, an odd cab and sounds nicked from the 455 and 483)
     
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  31. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    Well I think most people (including me) are really curious about how such a disaster of an update could happen, and what will be the next steps. I'm really hopeful they take their time and effort to make a proper fix for both RT and LIRR. I'm a bit worried, because they said they will be going through the patchnotes one by one to check things, whicn is great, but the patch also broke some things that are not mentioned in the patch notes. So I'm a bit worried they will miss those things.
     
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  32. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    I think the last I paid any attention to was this one...
     

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