What kind of rolling stock I prefer, I think that's easy. I think no Dutch route is complete without both ICM & V-IRM. Those are my absolute favorites. With I'd hope, later additions SGM, and DDZ, maybe even DDAR+NS1700, but I think that last one would be hoping for too much. I must confess though that I'm not the biggest fan of the types of trains that came after the SLT type, although they're still alright, but as long as either ICM and/or VIRM are included as well, and it's not just purely those modern generations I'm happy. I think it'd be most practical if ICM is done first because it's the one getting fazed out first IRL, and I fear if they wait too long to do a Dutch route, they're not gonna include ICM because it's not in service anymore, and we're left hoping that maybe they'll put it in as a standalone locomotive DLC. Also, although this is for if they've already done one or a few Dutch routes, I'd love if they went back tot he 80's/90's, with the old ICM's where the front doors would actually open, and you've have a scenario where they broke down trying to decouple at Gouda, like they usually did IRL. And of course with the old yellow SGM's and Mat 64. I could fanboy over all the possibilities so much and I want this all to be a reality so bad :'( Let's hope DTG makes this happen
I agree the ICM and IRM are iconic trains, in any variants. 'Problem' is they're both typical Intercity trains, and to make this route interesting we'd also need something to run the local commuter "Sprinter" services. Hah, now your list is getting almost as large as mine. :P The NS1700 would be nice as it can be used to pull a number of different coaches, including the DDAR coaches, but also the DB coaches used on the Amsterdam-Berlin service, and I believe 1700s were also used to pull NS intercity coaches? Agreed, not a fan of the modern stuff. SLT isn't the prettiest train and SNG is even worse. :P Although I did travel in the SLT on my daily commute for several years. Even if it's taken out of service, the ICM is pretty iconic train, perhaps even the most iconic in the Dutch railway history. Yeah, I'd prefer the old ICM over the ICMm, the opening doors and couple/uncouple operarations would be pretty interesting in TSW. And the Mat '64 has an unique look to it, and used to be my daily commute for several years. I know. I feel the same. This would be so awesome.
Yeah, I realize that, which is also why I pivoted later to SGM, which would be my preferred sprinter. I mean, to include 3 different types of trains on release on a route, unless maybe the 3rd one is a freight locomotive, no chance. So in terms of best combination of 2 trains included on initial release, I'm gonna have to go with IRM + SGM with ICM later released as standalone DLC cause it would be the one that sells best. IRM here instead of ICM because SGM is already somewhat old timey, and pairing it with ICM would mean 2 old time trains instead of one modern (but not too modern) one to balance that out. Totally agreed. 1700 could be used in many different ways, including a route that crosses borders between Almelo and Osnabrück if they'd ever decide to do such a thing. Along with an NS ICE of course so you can also drive a the route as a continued service without having to end your service at the mid point and get to the other loc and continue a new service. And of course, 1700 could be a perfect freight train in NS Cargo livery or something like that. Although I believe those were 1600's, but I could be wrong. And besides, though the 1600/1700/1800 series have minor differences, for game design purposes, they're practically the same, other than just adding or removing the BSI coupler the 1700 has to fit onto other DDAR types. Yeah, but at the same time, we're gonna have to be real, and they're not gonna be omitted, as well they shouldn't be. They are part of our railways after all, and should be represented too. So although I'd prefer SGM, I think most realistic would be SLT, along with either IRM or maybe ICM, which one of those two I'm not sure about which would be more realistic to expect if they went through with a Dutch route. Also, with all due respect, although after a few routes, sure, but let's hope they don't start making a Dutch route with an Arrive owned line... Although eventually those GTW's should be definitely be included too, if we went all the way on NL, I think most of us can agree that if DTG started with an Arriva route, that'd kinda suck. It certainly would be, yes. But that would indeed be something for DTG to figure out after getting a firm foothold in the Netherlands. Either way, with that way of coupling, something I'd personally really like to see more in the game, which happens a lot here in the Netherlands as you know, is the act of combining EMU's together at the end of your service. Ending your service like that would be really cool I feel like, and we haven't done something like that so far. Or of course, the reverse, having to detach a service first. This is something I feel like is very difficult to properly implement in a way the AI understands what's going on, but could be a great thing for immersion. And besides, my (former, but still at hart) hometown of Gouda would be the ideal location for these services, if the route is something like Utrecht - Rotterdam/Den Haag, which splits at Gouda. Perhaps I'm gonna have to dive deeper into that specific idea sometime soon to pin it on the forums here too I could have potential. And lastly, Purno, if I may ask. I've seen you mention this, but unfortunately right now I have to go so maybe later I'll get back on this, but. What would you think would be something that could be done, or what route specifically, would help best to entice and convince foreigners too that Dutch trains and routes are worth it? Cause I've seen multiple responses on Dutch threads about how "The Netherlands is way too flat anyway, and it's all the same" basically. Obviously the part of it being all the same is untrue, and although mostly flat, that doesn't make our network any less challenging. But I can see why a foreigner that has no real experience with out network could come to that conclusion. So how to prove them wrong? I mean, the problem is us being flat, and that being boring on the draw distance. Köln-Aachen is mostly flat too, and large part of Munich-Augsburg as well, but those weren't a problem either to make them look good. And besides, there's still diversity when you enter urban regions and so on. Especially for example when you're starting to get close to Amsterdam CS. Anyway, love to talk more about this with you Perhaps in a separate thread if this becomes a topic of its own. I wouldn't want to highjack your original suggestion with an important topic that's only found by people reading this specific topic for this route.
Oh and, also. For that balance of one that's kind of old-timey and modern, indeed another pretty likely combination of a first release, would probably be SLT+ICM, come to think of it. I think that's realistically speaking the most like one actually
Well, I don't know what would entice and convince foreigners too that Dutch trains and routes are worth it. It's basically guesswork. I know the looks of the IRM does get some likes, as well as the uniquness of the ICM. I have little clue on what people think of the other Dutch trains. The NS1700 is based on a French loco, and pulls German IC coaches on Amsterdam-Berlin. I guess I mentioned that mostly to give DTG a hint they could recycle some assets in hope to lower development costs and thus making a Dutch route less of a risk. (They already have the DB IC coaches for the DB BR101, so would only need to make the 1700 loco, something they could also use for any French route considering they already have a SNCF license). No clue if the NS 1700 would also interest French people (because of the loco) or German people (because of the DB IC coaches). As for the landscape. Yes, it's flat. It may be considered boring, but it also makes our country unique and stand out. The flatness also means you often can look pretty far away. Our country, especially in the Randstad area, has a pretty high population density. There's barely any areas that are left untouched. Now I'm not familiar with all of the Dutch routes, but the reason I suggested this one is because I know it has a pretty diverse landscape, within a pretty short distance. Around Amsterdam and Schiphol it's all pretty urban, but the landscape quickly turns into meadows when you get close to Weesp. Then there's the Naardermeer with lakes on both sides of the railway line, shortly before you enter another urbanized area around Naarden-Bussum and Hilversum (that whole stretch is pretty much non-stop built up area). Then between Hilversum and Baarn is an area with pretty dense forests, and after Baarn the landscape opens up again to show maedows shortly before entering the urban area around Amersfoort. That's a whole diversity of different landscapes to view in just 45 mins or so. And that's even without considering the various architectural styles of station buildings and buildings close to the tracks. Operating a sprinter service should take long enough because there's plenty of stops. Operating an Intercity service would be fun too, as there's plenty of opportunities to gain some high speed, and with an intercity stop at Hilversum it's not a simple non-stop end-to-end run. The route length is similar, or perhaps even a tad shorter, than other routes we've already seen in TSW2. I believe this is also a pretty realistic and achieveable goal to develop. Plus I know there's services operating between Amsterdam and Amersfoort in real life, so in a way it's also a full route, with both major stations on each end of the route. That's why I think this particular route is more interesting that routes that operate outside of the randstad area. Although I'm not really familiar with all routes, I have the idea that some Dutch route suggestions are mostly exclusively forests, and many other may be too long and have too high development costs, especially considering there's also lots of custom assets that need to be made for a first Dutch route. As for the suggested branch to Lelystad, well, I don't really know if it'd appeal people. I mainly added it because the section alongside the Oostervaardersplassen has been elected as the Netherland's most beautiful railway journey a number of years ago. I guess the polder landscape could be interesting, but there's probably better areas around the Netherlands. It's pretty unique to cross the Hollandsebrug and notice the land being actually below see level, but I doubt that detail can really be seen in a game good enough. The added bonus of this route suggestion is that Amsterdam is internationally well known. You don't really have to explain people what country the route is in. But that's all a guess. I'd be curious to hear what foreigners like and dislike about the Netherlands, and which Dutch route would interest most foreigners. I added in as many pictures as possible in my original posts, to get the attention of foreigners. Perhaps DTG or any third party developers may know better what would appeal to people. They've held surveys and they know the data of their sales and customer base, after all.
This is where I get myself mixed into the discussion . DTG has stated they wanted to do multiple routes from any country they'd add to the game. Therefore I do expect multiple Dutch routes, with layering in between them. This one could for example come with the VIRM and SLT or SNG, whereas something like my route suggestion for Enschede-Amersfoort CS could come with the ICMm and SGMm, as it is the place in the Netherlands where the oldest rolling stock ends up. The SGMm is still in use here (although since january it is mostly replaced by the SNG), the ICMm will be in use here for quite a few more years to come, and even the 1700 + DD-AR sets were in use here up to 2019 (the year in which my route suggestion would be set.) My suggestion is for the 1700 + DD-AR coaches to come just after release like the 465 on SEH, with the 1700 also adding services with the DB IC coaches for those that own the 101. Onceagain, my suggestion might be of interest. The differences between the 1600 and 1700 are indeed minor (the 1800 is just a 1600 numbered for passenger service). Only the air compressors and certain areas of the drivers desk are different. This makes them good candidates to come in a two loco-pack, as detailed in my suggestion. For the 1600 no new freight wagons have to be made, as the German ones already in game are commonplace in the Netherlands aswell, so these could be reused. The fun thing about Dutch routes is indeed the difference between IC and Sprinter services, and how the speed difference between them is solved, with complex operations and tight scheduling. Many are already convinced the Netherlands would be good, but as Purno also mentioned, the difference in urban and rural landscapes could draw people in. His suggestion is also best to come first because it includes the well-recognised Amsterdam (opposed to my line which serves lesser known cities). In addition to this the high frequencies could draw people in, as lacking freqeuncies of services are often complained about. On top of that the operations in and around stations are unique at some stations, where trains terminate at through platforms (as shown in the picture below).
Yes they were, up to the 2010's roughly I believe. They were used a lot on the trains between the Randstad and Valkenburg I believe, and generally speaking the south was their operating area when hauling Intercities, with most going to Maastricht and Venlo IIRC. They also hauled the ICK and ICL coaches that were bought from DB as a short term solution for a shortage in rolling stock. The 1700 below was photographed in Venlo (not by me of course, I get my pictures from the interweb )
I agree and for the DB IC Coaches they can come in from HRR DB BR101. Since the HRR DB BR101 pulls IC 77 Berlin to Amsterdam up to Bad Bentheim where PZB LZB Sifa 15kv 16.7hz ends. That station is where DB BR101 15kv 16.7hz PZB LZB Sifa gets switched for a NS1600-1800 family has ATB EG/NG 1.5kv DC capability. IC77 is routed as Berlin Bad Bentheim (Voltage & signaling system change) Amserfoot CS Amsterdam
I've been looking for some video footage on Youtube to give an impression on the trains and stations. Videos may give another impression than just the pictures I've shown earlier. Including both modern footage as well as some older trains Baarn (non-intercity station) september 2020 Naarden-Bussum (non-intericty station) june 2020 Hilversum-Noord (non-intercity station) april 2010 Hilversum (intercity station) april 1993
If you look at the DB BR363 from RSN it is assigned to Utrecht Yard with the missing ATB Dutch train protection system. The Easy way to getting DB BR232 former German Democratic Republic designation DR BR132 is having Ruhr Sieg Nord getting it first then layered here with ATB EG/NG PZB LZB Sifa ETCS if it needs to run via Duisburg Oberhausen-Arnhem Railway
You Mean Deutsche Bahn Arriva. The first route that needs to go into the Netherlands from Germany should be Duisburg Oberhausen-Arnhem Railway so that Haputstrecke Rhein-Ruhr during the rush hours 05:30-10:30 & 16:30-21:30 gets NS Dutch Railways Abellio NRW division for local traffic then Arnhem gets Deutsche Bahn Arriva and Rallion Nederlands traffic.
Although I wouldn't be against NS Abellio or Railion rolling stock, it wouldn't have the same Dutch feel as NS-branded trains that run throughout the country.
I agree Although eventually I would love to see some of the crossover routes and rolling stock to add flavor to both the Netherlands and West Germany, I think it's paramount for Dutch content they (DTG) gain a strong foothold in the Netherlands first by covering some of the most scenic and iconic elements of Dutch railways. Once we have been vindicated in our strong support for Dutch content, proving that Dutch routes would indeed sell well with our enormous fanbase, a huge potential that is yet untapped, and a thirst growing by the day. Only then do I think it would be safe to build bridges with international trains that aren't high speed. To elaborate a little on why I think that is. This is going to be slightly lengthy and contain some personal opinion which not everyone may agree with, although I do believe time will vindicate my beliefs on this. It is my firmly held opinion from what I'm seeing in the Dutch rail community that "we" are a huge untapped potential, and as a matter of saying, all we need at this point is a spark for Dutch content to catch fire (in the sense they'd sell like hotcakes), such is our deep thirst for Dutch content that is at this point never been fully addressed in any official capacity. Although I will acknowledge that Sam has mentioned in one of the streams that they are aware that there is reasonable demand for a Dutch route, but nothing about actual plans other than the standard "eventually we'd like to do everything". If we look at 3rd party unofficial content makers for TS20xx, most notable example being ChrisTrains, you quickly notice there's a clear market there strong enough to compete with the best of other regions in the world. In fact I'd go as far as to say, and I believe there's a large poll on this site somewhere that showed this, that the only country more requested than the Netherlands is Japan, of the countries not yet in the game. I am of the belief that if DTG were to try and play it safe by making the first Dutch route something that originates from Germany in order to also appeal more to the German fanbase along with the Dutch one, to not solely appeal to a new and yet unproven region, than DTG would be utterly shooting itself in the foot. Why do I think that? Because as I have stated in no uncertain terms, I feel there's a certain amount unrest in the Dutch community, and although I can't really speak for the Dutch community as a whole, I can say that at least for me personally this is the case. In the sense that we're feeling slightly left out. Unofficial 3rd party content creators are proving there's a real market out there, but DTG and other official studios aren't acting on it. This is very frustrating to say the least, and if they would then go and have the first Dutch route they make be for 4/5 part in Germany that would in my honest opinion pretty much be a slap in the face, telling us that they do not have enough faith in the Dutch rail community to really represent us with a proper Dutch route. My apologies for this little rant, and I will fully acknowledge that a lot of this is personal opinion, and that not everybody may feel the same way I do, as well was it to vent some of my own personal frustration. However I do stand by what I said. Also, driverwoods#1787, neither is this in any way meant to discredit the validity of Duisburg Oberhausen - Arnhem as a suggestion. In fact, I think it's a fantastic suggestion even! But it shouldn't be the first content that reaches into the Netherlands, unless there's clearly another Dutch route on the roadmap (and not just "in planning") at the same time. I hope you don't take my little opinion piece above as being too harsh on your suggestion
I don't think DTG will introdice the Netherlands via a cross-border route. Although personally I'd like to see my local route (Enschede - Amersfoort), I think DTG will make a route out of the big cities (Amsterdam most likely), like this suggestion, as Amsterdam will be a city more (non Dutch) players are familiar with, which means it will draw in more players. I completely understand the frustration at there not being a Dutch route yet, because the demand is clearly there and licensing with NS has been done by DTG and 3rd party developers for TS and other games (even for Roblox) succesfully before. Personally I've looked at the roadmap every two weeks for half a year now, each time hoping to see a Dutch route on it. DTG has stated that when they develop new systems for one country, they'd like to make multiple routes for that country, as that allows them to spread the developement costs of those new systems across multiple DLC's. Maybe that's why DTG is holding off, as they might be unsure whether there is demand for multiple Dutch routes. Personally I feel sure there is such demand, and Dutch routes might even draw players that stick with TS for the Dutch content and new players that are Dutch railfans into TSW (providing DTG with more sales for the base game and possibily also DLC's for other countries these players get interested in, as I myself came for German content, but also came to like British content). It is probably important that we keep showing support for many different Dutch routes, so DTG knows there is demand for more than just one route. I also hope some 3rd party developers (ChrisTrains would be great of course) eventually start making Dutch content for TSW, but we know from Maik Goltz that a TSW loco is considerably more work than a TS loco, so (sadly) I don't think that 3rd party developers that are happy with their position within the TS market will make the jump across to TSW soon. That being said, if there were some Dutch routes out, with a large amount of players having bought them, TSW will become more attractive for 3rd party developers that want to create Dutch locos. The Netherlands are actually requested more often than Japan outside of the forums (on the DTG yearly survey for example). All in all I think it's time for DTG to venture outside the well established three countries (excluding Switzerland, as that is a Rivet Games route), and the Netherlands would be the logical first step.
Seeing NS Cargo would be great, but it is long gone and was short lived, requiring any route with NS Cargo to be set in the past, which is harder to research and might be less popular with most players (no, I havent forgotten about your desires for older routes Purno as a matter of fact I'm thinking about suggesting such a route). Maybe in the future we'll see NS Cargo, but in modern times the Cargo on Dutch tracks is hauled by private and/or foreign operators, and those we'll probably see first.
Ok then so it's Rallion Nederlands Deutsche Bahn SNCF CapTrain Nederlands for freight on this route. All the existing DB Rallion wagons will appear on this route. Regarding the Ruhr-Sieg Nord DB BR232 former East German Designation DR BR132 has that been operated here in the past 15 years or so that includes RSN DB BR363 Utrecht depot. If that were to be the case Booth Ruhr-Sieg Nord trains need working ATB if DTG Train Sim Germany lets Chris Trains the developer of the Dutch train protection system ATB for TS 21 is allowed to work on those DLC Locomotives. The reverse is NS6400 getting PZB Sifa for German routes.
I think you need to be careful not to overestimate the Dutch community. We are a relatively small country, population wise. And while the Dutch may spend a decent amount of money on games, that doesn't necessarily mean it's enough to earn back any investments and make a reliable profit. (Which is what DTG or any other company essentially would want). Also keep in mind that Dutch people are pretty fluent in English, which may result in an overrepresentation of Dutch people in the community. I believe that for a succesfull Dutch route, we need to peek the interest of people outside of our tiny country. I also wonder if the active Dutch modding community would actually work in our favor. Perhaps the Dutch are more likely to mod something themselves, rather than buying it? I don't know...
You don't really need a cross-border route in order to be able to reuse German rolling stock, considering DB freight trains can be seen throughout the country and the ICE (either with DB or NS logo) visits Amsterdam, as well as the international InterCity service between Amsterdam and Berlin. We all know DTG keeps to their precious 3 countries, with very rare exceptions. Although I have hope, I know it's unlikely for any Dutch route to be made by DTG. I may have a slightly better hope at a third party like Rivet. (Which is why I've also made this particular route suggestion on Rivet's forums). Rivet and ChrisTrains once did a stream together, so lets hope there'll be a collaboration in future. *fingers crossed* We could try poking ChrisTrains about TSW. Who knows it might help. I've bought a few of his add-ons for Train SImulator in the past, but without a Dutch route to run on, I didn't really see much point building up a bigger collection. Unfortunately the few community made Dutch routes for Train Simulator require too much hassle to install with their huge pile of dependencies... which is another downside of community made stuff... However, and I might be wrong here, but I do get the impression that Dutch routes are mainly suggested by Dutch people, while Japanese routes are rarely made by Japanese. I even wonder how many Japanese are active in this community, or even playing TSW. I remember something about another rail simulator pretty much owning the market in Japan... There'd be so many other countries that would be a logical first step as well. Like France or Austria.
I have seen Dutch routes also be demanded and suggested by non-Dutch (mainly British and German) players too, so I'm quite confident there is demand outside of the Netherlands. I don't know if DTG ever wants to create routes for a country outside of the big three, but I'm also not sure 3rd party devs can deliver a full-sized route yet (with Cane Creek being the first full length route by Skyhook, and Rivet Games' Isle of Wight and Arosa Line both being relatively short). I guess we'll have to wait and see . P.s., yes Austria and France (and Switzerland) would all be good candidates for the first new country into TSW aswell (if you forget about Arosa and LGV, these countries still have a lot of potential).
I actually think the active modding community around Dutch content is, although fun for Dutch content in the short term, definitely hurting the effort in the long run. I fear the thought process of any studio regarding Dutch content could easily be that because of the Dutch modding community, whenever any studio is even considering a Dutch route, the problem is basically solving itself, so they can focus their attention on other regions that aren't being modded in already. Problem with modded content though is that with a few notable exceptions modded content just doesn't measure up against official content in most instances. Also to this. I get that, and I shouldn't indeed, but you definitely shouldn't underestimate it either. I think the activity of the Dutch modding community speaks quite well of our enthusiasm and the demand. Are you sure that would go well though? ChrisTrains builds trains, and some minor assets, but although I'd support him being involved in Dutch content, I wonder if he alone would really be able to build a Dutch train in TSW2 as we've heard (to no one's surprise I dare say) that the amount of work in TSW2 trains is about tenfold the amount of work that goes into TS20xx trains. Plus, for ChrisTrains to be making Dutch trains, we'd need a Dutch route first anyway.
I sure hope so. I mean, I understand they've got their three mainstay's and that Germany, UK and USA will probably always remain the bases that are the most well served. But as has been said before by many, even if we ignore my own preferences (Japan and the Netherlands), I am starting to get slightly tired by just North America and (Mid-)Western Europe. Asia should definitely be the first of new introductions in my opinion.
The modding community is something to keep in mind, but lets not forget that TSW has a large console market (about ⅔ of players play on console), where no mods are available, and on PC there is some modding, but nothing close to player made routes or trains (as DTG simply doesn't support it, due to licensing mainly). This means there really isn't an alternative studio made payed Dutch content for TSW, which might actually make it more attractive to make Dutch content for TSW compared to TS.
For TSW you are definitely right. I was mainly talking about TS20xx regarding the modding community. I agree that because TSW has no mod support as of yet that means its less of a concern, although it could still put us more on the backburner because "We have so much TS20xx modded content anyway still".
Personally, I'm not that into asian content yet, but that is a personal opinion. However, I do feel like some good and interesting route previews or review vids might make me onsider buying it.
I don't have any experience with the community made Dutch routes (again, due to the extreme list of requirements I didn't even dare to try), but I know some community made workshop routes are better than some of the stuff DTG made. Sure, there's rubbish routes too, but a group of passionate modders, doing things in their spare time and thus not limited by budget, could build something better than a commercial company limited by budgets. I don't see why it would hurt. Always worth a try. DTG made the move. TSG made the move. Rivet made the move. If they can do it, why wouldn't ChrisTrains be able to do it? In the stream/interview with Rivet + ChrisTrains they also mention how TSG has helped them out in the past. Considering TSG is already working on locomotives and Rivet already made a few, I'm confident ChrisTrains has access to the information he needs. I think the biggest hurdle if it's all worth the time investment. I think in the long term it is. I don't think the Train Simulator community is growing, now that TSW is pretty much it's spiritual successor. Simple. We need Rivet to make the route, and ChrisTrains make the trains
Just thinking out loud here. I know that in the past DTG has said in one of their livestreams that there were rail operators that contacted DTG because they really loved to be in the game. I also remember that Mercedes was the last brand to be present in Euro Truck Simulator, but since the community kept asking Mercedes why their trucks weren't in the game, they were more willing to sign a license deal with the ETS developers. So... would it work if we just kept poking NS and tell them how cool it would be if their trains would be in TSW? I mean, it's basically marketing for them, wouldn't it? :P
It's all about whether a company sees something as an oppertunity or liability. NS seems like a company open to many ideas, and willing to be innovative in how it presents it's image. What I see as indicative to NS's mindset their stance on cab rides. When NS first got word of these, they saw them as a potential issue, but instead of banning it, they talked with the train drivers about what could or could not be safely done and eveluated the entire situation. This resulted in POV's being banned, but recording with mounted camera's being allowed. And NS went even further, by actually including cab rides from the most popular channel in their weekly news videos on youtube. That example shows me that while NS is understandbly cautious when it comes to things that could have negative effects on safety or break laws, they are open minded, and willing to cooperate with things when they see this as possible. The fact that they find safety important does mean they might require certain switches to be moved or procedures to be simplified in game, so you can't learn to drive any train from a game. However, they aren't the only company, and many companies already in game also require such 'unrealisms' as safety measures, which doesn't affect player experience. Maybe I'll consider annoying NS with an email about what their stance on NS being in games is .
I've been thinking about poking them on their facebook. I mean, we need to get this train rolling somehow. We could do the usual tactic of convincing DTG to pull this train, or we could try convincing NS and get this train pushed from the other direction
I can get on board with that, definitely I think Isle of Wight is very well made, although let's hope they do better on scenery than on Arosa, though without mountains I think that becomes a lot easier. On the side of ChrisTrains though, he's a 1 man army, right? My main fear about letting him do it is that it would take too long because of the work required for TSW rolling stock. Interesting, I wasn't aware of any such interview, but I'll definitely look it up Yeah, there are some exceptions, but whether its because of their complete quality, or because of as you said yourself, they're such a hassle to get working completely, they're far from optimal. Perhaps, but are you sure that would work? I mean, I have heard stories, and although I am not 100% sure how true they are, but apparantly the license to the Dutch sprinter liveries are being held by a private artist and not by NS, and the reason you'll find very few model trains in that livery is because the patentholder is extremely stringent on giving out the license to anyone for any purpose. I mean, I prefer NS ICM, VIRM and DDAR/DDZ anyway, but the sprinter types are still part of it you know. I wonder though how ChrisTrains got around that licensing issue though assuming it's 100% true.
Imagine if we could get NS to go to DTG with a 'hey we like the game, are you interested in making NS content', that would sure draw DTG over the line . I guess we could always try and ask NS nicely, they seem like they'd understand.
ChrisTrains might be a 1 man army, but Rivet isn't. I'm sure of nothing, but do we have anything to loose?
Honestly, I love DTG, but I have little faith that poking them up about it would work because from their perspective we'd just be one of many who want a route in their country even though they are seemingly somewhat aware of our enthusiasm and the demand here. I'm 100% on board though with trying to get the ball rolling on NS's side somehow and I'd be willing to help, although I'm of very limited means unfortunately, with absolutely 0 experience in anything of the sort.
https://store.steampowered.com/app/65249/Train_Simulator_DB_Freight_1970s_Loco_AddOn/ DTG published this. NS Kalksteen wagons. Complete with NS logo. So I assume they already have at least a tiny bit of experience with licensing NS.
I have found a NS page about sponsorship and cooperation (sponsoring en samenwerking), which lists requirements for working with NS. It seems to be mostly focussed on business ventures (i.e. someone would like to sell hot dogs in their trains), but might also be a good starting point for licensing for games. What I can tell from the listed requirements NS is willing to license out (and to a limited degree get employees to give feedback to DTG on a Dutch route while it's in developement), if they feel like having NS in TSW would provide good marketing that would incentivice people to take the train. I wouldn't approach NS via that site as a player though, as it is meant for proffesional cooperation requests only, so using that way is up to DTG.
ARRRRGH... I feel so powerless. I've written a very detailed suggestion, explained why it'd be an interesting route, it has a length similar to existing routes. I have poked Rivet about it, I've poked ChrisTrains. I've even poked NS. What else can I do? What can we do to make this happen... This is so frustrating. I want this to happen but I don't know what else I can do to make this happen...
Same goes for me, I'd really like to see my (Dutch) suggestions and have done everything I could. At a certain point you just have to let it rest and see what happens I guess .
More than just sharing similarities. The NS 1600 series is a direct descendant of the BB15000, a 15kV AC loc built and designed for SNCF in 1971 (which in its turn were a descendant of the "nez cassé" ("broken nose") CC-40100 series in 1964). NS was looking for a new electric locomotive and looked with a lot of interest towards the new French locs and to show their capabilities with DC motors, since NS uses 1500V DC, the locomotive BB-15007 was refitted with DC equipment for the 1500V DC network and renumbered to BB-7003. It was then loaned to NS for testing in September/October 1975 and 1976. Because SNCF only uses two front lights, for NS standards a third had to be manually added (you see the wire running over the nose). Here it is testing a passenger service at Hilversum: And freight near Utrecht: NS was very happy with the tests with both passenger service and (heavy) freight, except for one thing: the brakes and electrics were 'passively' cooled, only when the train was moving the components cooled the electrics and brakes. With the busy Dutch rail network where relatively short stretches of line (to great dissatisfaction of the French driver who operated the loco) had to be accelerated and then decelerated again, made the French cooling system insufficient and so an active cooling system was added for the tests in 1976. These test runs formed the basis for the order of the NS 1600 series which started to roll off the production line at Alsthom in 1980 and first tested in January 1981. For SNCF Alsthom-Atlantique simultaneously made the BB-7200 series, almost identical to NS 1600, and the BB-22200 series (suitable for DC and AC).
Thank you for the back story about NS 1600 family and there's is a 15000 volt capable version of the Nes casse the CC40100 in neighbouring Belgium the SNCB 18 Alstom which makes those locomotive suited for a trans border between route Germany and Belgium France and the Netherlands. One of those is actually Arnhem Oberhausen Duisburg Railway. for this route it's transborder segment is Henglo-Bad Bentheim Osnabrück railway
True! They had six and support(ed) four different systems: 1,5kV and 3kV DC, as well as 15kV at 16⅔Hz and 25kV at 50Hz. Alsthom also fulfilled a few orders for Portugal: Morocco: Plus the diesel version of the French CC72000 series: Slovenia: And, last but not least, South Korea: Amtrak got one for testing, but they never ordered anything. They (re)numbered theirs X996: But I think I'm starting to derail this thread now away from the Dutch route suggestion and discussion, so I'll stop here
Ok then and for X996 the home route for it is 1970s-1990s NEC Newark, NJ to New Rochelle, NY. This route is ATB to which it's derived from the Pennsylvania Railroad pulse code signaling used on Northeast Corridor Newark New Jersey to New Rochelle New York Boston to Providence. If a player is familiar with Northeast Corridor and Long Island Railroad then the Dutch Prorail ATB EG/NG should share common Concepts except for the braking curve which is seen on Haputstrecke München Augsburg & Schnellfahrstrecke Köln-Aachen LZB.
Oh I think the information is awesome and super useful! This makes clear that when DTG (or a third party) decides to spend resources on creating the NS 1600 series, huge parts of the model and simulation data can be reused for quite a few other countries as well. I hope that decreases the risk they need to take to develop such a locomotive, and it'd be a tad more likely that they'll eventually decide to create the NS 1600 series.
DTG already has a relation with SNCF and I've seen the BB22200 in Marseille when I was there (years ago), so they could theoretically already develop the loco and perhaps test with a DLC that adds a regional route to the LGV route.
Got a reply back from Christrains on my facebook comment. It seems he can't do much because DTG has no support for independent developers. That's a pretty big limitation on DTGs side...
