Passenger Trains In Tsw2 Need A Conductor Or Cctv

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by J.T., Jun 2, 2021.

  1. J.T.

    J.T. Active Member

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    I'm trying to use TSW2 as a simulator, not an arcade game. I memorize the route, try to follow real procedures, make an employee timetable for myself, and so on.

    I believe that passenger trains in TSW2 absolutely need either a conductor giving a departure signal or a functional CCTV system for DDO (Driver Only Operation) mode.

    The only way in TSW2 to find out when the door can be closed is to open the arcade-style tooltip and observe it. This, of course, spoils the impression of realism.

    And yet, once the train is ready to depart, instead of the arcade "blop" sound, TSW2 could play:
    1. On European trains - the sound of the conductor's whistle or the sound of radio notification from the conductor
    2. On British trains - double-bell sound

    This way it would be more realistic and less like a Super Mario Bros :)

    For trains operated only by a driver (DOO), functional CCTV screens should be provided in the driver's cab. Many simulators have already proved that it is possible to implement reflections in mirrors or images from external cameras. It will be much easier in TSW2, because this image have to be generated only during a stop at the station.

    If you also want to be able to finally run passenger trains like a real train driver, not like in an arcade game player, please add your "like" to this post. If there are 5-10 likes here, DTG will surely ignore this and start another underdeveloped DLC. But if there are several dozen of them here, maybe they will at least think about it. Well, unless you don't care ;)
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2021
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  2. djhawtin1

    djhawtin1 Well-Known Member

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    A, We dont need CCTV
    B, i want a Guard too
    C, DOO needed and SDO Aswell
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2021
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  3. J.T.

    J.T. Active Member

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    We need CCTV because when the platform is located on the curve, the driver cannot see all the doors leaning out of the cabin window. And yet we don't want to hurt a virtual passenger, especially since we see them jumping on the train after a warning signal ;)
     
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  4. djhawtin1

    djhawtin1 Well-Known Member

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    no you rely on the hud or do what most drivers do in the west midlands get out of the cab
     
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  5. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    Getting out of the cab is the best option, just walk to the inside of the platform.
    I just use the HUD as I'm i
    on Xbox so I'm stuck with it.
     
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  6. djhawtin1

    djhawtin1 Well-Known Member

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    you can turn off HUD on xbox, hold down the menu button, left of the X Button
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2021
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  7. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    Hmm never seen that, I'll give it a try after. Thanks
     
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  8. KoeleKoen

    KoeleKoen Well-Known Member

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    Just out of curiosity how do german/usa/uk trains get their departing signal? In belgium we have first a small red light and then 6 small white ones or a light incab which says the doors are locked in smaller stations (if it doesn't have a door locked light in cab like our loco's we look outside and watch when the guard waves)
     
  9. J.T.

    J.T. Active Member

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    As far as I know, train drivers don't have a HUD to rely on. They have CCTV screens in the driver's cabins :)

    I've never been to the UK so I don't know how it actually works in real life. But at some stations, I would not only have to get out of the cab (I get out anyway when the platform is on the right side), but also to step back several dozen meters or more. I'm afraid that by the time I got back to the driver's cab, the situation at the door would be a bit outdated.

    In some European countries, the conductor simply tells the driver via radio that the train is ready to depart.
    It sounds like: "Train 26206 ready to depart".
    I belive it works this way in Germany too.

    In the UK, as far as I know, the conductor uses a special audible signal - two bells - which means that the train is ready to depart. The driver confirms the received signal with two bells and sets off from the station. In the Class 377 cabin you have a button on the left wall that can be used to give this signal. And it even works in TSW2!
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2021
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  10. cyrill.kroonstuiver

    cyrill.kroonstuiver Well-Known Member

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    I agree absolutely
    When I can I drive with HUD off, and unless you're meticulously memorizing your exact time of arrival and have a sheet ready for ETA's and departures, that is, if your cab even has a clock in it, you're not gonna be able to reliably drive without HUD.

    After Rush Hour and Steam, the next big update DTG should start working on should definitely be all about other train and station staff. Preferably making some jobs like conductor/guard a player mode, but at least as AI, even if they're just NPC's standing around in vaguely appropriate places to give the stations and trains life (though of course the conductor should be on the train and outside while at a platform) , and when the train is ready there's an audible whistle or something depending on country.
     
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  11. djhawtin1

    djhawtin1 Well-Known Member

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    The in-game HUD and if your saying there should be CCTV what specific trains do you refer to?
     
  12. J.T.

    J.T. Active Member

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    I mean the Southern Class 377 trains. In TSW2, the CCTV screens are in the driver's cab, but they are dark. There are also external cameras on the cars.
    ...and the quarrel with Southern Railway over DOO has spread far beyond the borders of the UK. ;)

    You intrigued me. I've been trying to find out more about Driver Only Operations in the UK but I still don't know if I understand correctly.

    You say that the driver leaves the cabin far to the platform, then returns to the cabin to press the door lock button, then returns to the platform again to see if the door has jammed anyone, and then finaly returns to the cabin, sits down and drives away???
    It's hard to believe :|
    I thought they are watching the situation on CCTV monitors all the time.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2021
  13. djhawtin1

    djhawtin1 Well-Known Member

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    Not all Train operators use DOO, in fact its mostly southern rail, my friend who is a southern rail/GatEx driver said he doesn't use them because there delayed and really unreliable so if you want 'CCTV' Its quite strait forward use the Outside camera and place it on where the Camera is and use that. and the drivers do exit the cab and look and check the doors are locked because my local station is on a curve and thats what they do. and drivers don't check if the doors jammed, the guard does and then locks that door out of use
     
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  14. J.T.

    J.T. Active Member

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    Thanks for the clarification. Since this is really the case on Southern, then I'll do the same in TSW2 :)

    Finally, I found a video to see with my own eyes what it looks like in practice. Unbelievable but true :o
    The case we are discussing is located at 7:20 minute of the video.

     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2021
  15. Mattty May

    Mattty May Guest

    Whistles at UK stations would be fun. Especially at the terminus stations. A Whistle could sound once the doors are closed, similar to how the guard buzzer works on LGV.
     
  16. ixofxiii

    ixofxiii Well-Known Member

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    A conductor on LIRR would be so much better. Still kinda cringe everytime I open my doors at Forrest Hills, Kew Gardens or Hollis with 2-6 cars opening up and not platformed. Conductors move to the specific location on the train to open only platformed cars.
     
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  17. J.T.

    J.T. Active Member

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    Following your suggestions, I tried to operate the Southern train as you described and as I've seen in the YouTube instructional video.

    But it worked very badly. This screenshot shows the situation at Lewes station. I get out of the driver's cab as far as the narrow platform allows. Tell me how many cars do you see? Can you see the end of the train?

    [​IMG]

    It just doesn't work.

    Setting up two exterior views to pretend to be cameras doesn't work either.

    First, the view from the rear camera resets to the default view each time I leave the cab or when the train enters a tunnel or passes a platform shelter.

    And second ... a second camera is not enough. Here at Lewes I placed the camera at the beginning of the third car, at the edge of the field of view of the camera from the first car. Tell me how many cars do you see in this camera? Can you see the end of the train?

    [​IMG]

    I'm sorry but it doesn't work either.

    In order to be able to more or less realistically drive this train without a guard and according to some basic procedures, I need to have working CCTV screens in the cabin with a view from cameras along the train.

    [​IMG]

    As you can see, CCTV screens are already present in the driver's cab, but they are blank.

    I thought about pretending to be a guard myself, using the free camera mode (although the conductor levitating around the train doesn't seem very realistic and spoils the immersion) but I couldn't find a buzzer button in the passenger compartment, or any buttons to open and close all doors. Maybe Southern Class 377 trains are adapted to run in DOO mode only? And apparently (AFAIK) there are no longer any guard on the Southern Railway (or at least they are not involved in the door-closing process anymore).
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2021
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  18. acela2163

    acela2163 Well-Known Member

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    At least on the M7, you can hold down the partial open button until it illuminates, then press the unlock button. In that case, none of the doors will open, but the game will still count the stop and you won't have to open the doors off of the platform. You can also walk back (or use CTRL +/- on PC) and use the door controls in the cab of the appropriate car to open the forward or rearward doors depending on how you stopped.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2021
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  19. ixofxiii

    ixofxiii Well-Known Member

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    I've done the walk back. That takes too much time.
    Didn't think the partial open button did anything in the game. Normally I would assume it should do the same as NYC subway cars and just opens one door per car.
     
  20. drnicktgm#1259

    drnicktgm#1259 Well-Known Member

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    We actually don't need the CCTV, it would be cool to use, but honestly it's easy to know when a train has to departure, because every train has a departure time, and there is the ability to look out the window if everyone is inside the train, of course we need a conductor, because they can help the train driver much better when they drive longer trains, because they can't see if there are any people in the last wagons, but otherwise it wouldn't be to hard to add the cctv screens, but it depends on what Dtg wants to do
     
  21. J.T.

    J.T. Active Member

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    Let me explain what I mean by insisting on these CCDTV screens on "Driver Only Operation" trains

    Part of the fun with the simulator is to recreate the PROCEDURES as real as possible.

    For example, in Flight Simulator, the flight physics are reproduced reliably, but not very accurately (therefore, even professional pilots have some difficulties with the control of the virtual plane in FSX ;) ) However, great emphasis has been placed on recreating the PROCEDURES in the cockpit. If a switch occurs in the so-called "checklist", you'll be able to toggle this switch in the virtual cockpit, even if it does nothing in the simulator (e.g. vent fan, passengers signs or a "ping" sound for cabin crew). The effect is enchanting.

    When looking at the videos of players flying on flight simulators we can easily be deluded and forget that it's only a game and not a real plane. Unfortunately, this is not the case when watching someone playing TSW2.

    The point is that when I drive a train in TSW2 simulator I'd like to do it in the same way as a real train driver does. And without active CCTV screens, I cannot recreate these procedures. The process of deparing the train from the station has been reduced to the arcade-game level.

    I have an unpleasant impression that in the case of railway simulators everything is reduced to trainspoting only. You watch and collect various trains and rail routes, making sure that each car has all its logos and badges in place, but you are completely not interested in the rules on which these trains operate.

    And yet, for trainspotters, well-recreated railway procedures wouldn't have to interfere with their gameplay! After all, in FSX you can fly a default Boeing like a cardboard model without any deeper knowledge. On the other hand, there are add-on models of the very same Boeing, that manual of which is several hundred pages long! And everyone is happy - both kids who just want to smash a jumbo-jet on some buildings and hard-core aviation enthusiasts who read operating instructions and METAR forecasts with a flushed face.

    Couldn't we give some fun for virtual train drivers and not just trainspotters?
    Please.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2021
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  22. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Having working cctv cameras would be cool. It's like a digital rear view mirror in racing games. Surely that can be implemented. The class 377 and class 395 are trains that can benefit from that
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2021
  23. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    What I do on lirr is for example when I am at queens village, I go to free cam and put the door control key in the door control panel in the fourth car. Then once I close the doors I turn the key, then drive off to hollis and then once i am there I open the doors and only the first 4 cars open. Then I go to free cam and go to the 4th car and take out thr key. I also do this when I am about to depart woodside or jamaica if I am stopping at Kew Gardens or forest hills. It's a simple solution without losing time by not having to run to the 4th car. Personally I hope when dtg release rush hour they add a ai conductor for routes in which the driver doesn't open and close the doors in real life like gwe and lirr. World of Subways 4 has a conductor so why tsw2 can't
     
  24. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    That’s not what the case is with TSW. Apart from being able to look at a CCTV screen, you are able to drive fairly accurate models of the trains on real life routes with all the major train controls reproduced. One small missing element of a working procedure doesn’t suddenly negate everything else and reduce the experience to nothing. Adding working CCTV will improve your experience and will be a valued addition but it’s not essential by any means. For other players there are more important aspects of TSW to improve and the devs can’t work on everything at once. It’s not a trainspotting only experience at all.
     
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  25. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    It would be nice to have some kind of station duties procedure. Of course CCTV is for more modern operations. There were procedures for station duties pre-2000 too. It would be great if on NTP, for example, on arrival at Huddersfield if you could lean out of the cab window and look back down the platform and watch out for the guard to give the right away. I still think having to manually open and shut doors on slam door stock operated by the passengers is by far one of the biggest immersion killers, for me at any rate. But that argument has been done to death and many just don't feel it is important so unless there is a huge groundswell of opinion in it's favour, it is unlikely to happen.

    I would love to see immersive features like these, however I think there are more pressing issues which probably require attention.
     

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