Diesel Legends - My Impressions

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by Wilfboy, Jun 15, 2021.

  1. Wilfboy

    Wilfboy Active Member

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    I recently bought Diesel legends (for PS4) in the PS sale with double discount (being a PS+ member) so got it for £9.59 instead of the usual £15. I have wanted this since it was released but thought £15 was too much, especially already having the 3 included locos, so I sent my message to DTG so to speak, by not buying it. I do however think it is worth the price I paid.

    I have played it for a few hours now and have to say I am loving it. I have always been a massive fan of the old BR Blue livery being from my era, and having the same Triang/Hornby rolling stock on a model railway I had as a kid, including the blue Inter-City coaches with working lights! The locos and coaches look (and sound) amazing, especially with the gritty worn/dirty look (good work DTG artists. Whatever gripes people have about gameplay on these forums, you can’t deny that DTG make stunning models). I also like the GWE route and the modern overhead electric wires being there do not bother me at all. I have a good choice of extra locos which I assume are from the Tees Valley and NTP routes I own. The long straight tracks give the locos a chance to stretch their legs at full speed but because they are slow to get up to speed, I have found it near impossible to keep to the timetable on the stopping services. (Not tried the 101 yet)

    There is a good mix of scenarios and services of stopping and express trains plus freight or moving coaches/locos around and it is nice to see this variety of consists too as traffic when driving along.

    I noticed a few early problems with the game such as the wrong door showing as open in the HUD when at stations, drivers at the wrong end of locos and the complete lack of passengers on the coaches which is a bit soul destroying driving empty trains. (If this is done to improve frame rates then it makes me wonder how Rush Hour is going to perform on PS4?) I would also liked to have seen the old 125 from the same era but as Matt said in one of his streams, it was too much work to convert the existing class 43. Maybe an add on later?

    So, if you have seen this in the sale, like a bit of nostalgia and are wondering whether to get it or not, buy it, you won’t be disappointed.
     
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  2. TinTin_57

    TinTin_57 Well-Known Member

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    I would agree with this review. I have been really enjoying it after initially following some of the discussion on here and being put off. It gets a lot more use out of GWE for one, it's nice to see old BR blue traffic in the depots etc and has a pretty good variety. Def worth picking up.
     
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  3. Tynmar

    Tynmar Well-Known Member

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    Cheers for this, just the nudge I needed :)
     
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  4. Luke8899

    Luke8899 Well-Known Member

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    I also bought it in the sale, and it is definitely a very good use of the Great Western Mainline and one that really invites you to run services from the depot through to the passenger runs. I'd have liked more services but that's true of every route, and it's somewhat offset by how much of a joy it is to be able to put the 31 to good use with a rake of MK.IIs!
     
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  5. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    Sometimes when you are spoilt for choice of what to drive and you can’t make your mind up, there’s always something in this DLC to help you out. It collects some of the best trains in TSW and puts them on one of the best routes in TSW and, despite some timetable and direction issues (a lot has been fixed), it gives a wide variety of different services to enjoy. I find it hard to understand why anyone who likes BR Blue wouldn’t want this pack. It’s such a joy to have. Slowly and steadily, eventually everyone will cave in and buy it and they will be happy they did.
     
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  6. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    True enough. I caved in and bought it in the current sale. The mix of provided services (with NTP Heavy Freight Pack and Class 31 layers) is very nice. Letting the Class 52 finally stretch its legs is also welcome.

    My main reason for getting it is that Great Western never offered anything I liked (but I got it anyway in the base package for TSW back in the day). Long straight high speed lines, DMUs, focus on passenger/commuter traffic - none of these are my cup of tea. But I do love loco pulled trains, diesel hydraulics and generally anything that‘s not modern (let‘s say pre 2000 for arguments sake). Diesel legends ticked all of these boxes and I don‘t regret buying it yet. Gave life to a route I never used :D
     
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  7. zedgie68

    zedgie68 Member

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    I was a bit worried about buying this but you have changed my mind. Thanks for the comments.
     
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  8. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    All of the above plus, in my case, more chances to drive the Class101, one of my favorite trains in the game. Don't ask me why I like it so much, I just do. Or maybe it's because it's so old-fashioned with the stick shift etc..
     
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  9. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    It almost seems like a general rule to love the Class 101. I already mentioned my preferences and I still love it despite that :D
     
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  10. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    I bought this "Class 52 skin and timetable DLC" much sooner than I expected to, at £9.59. And I have to say that so far I have utterly regretted the purchase. This might change when I get around to doing the Class 08 services to just plain "regretted the purchase". This might not be the case for anyone that holds the GWE route in high regard - but I am not one of those people - I think GWE is a fairly dull route overall - lovely trains, but a dull route for the Class 66 and the HST, although it is quite nifty for the Class 166.....

    This DLC, in my opinion, is far worse than Oakville. And the Oakville DLC was completely Oakvilled. I bought the "colour blue" Class 52 skin DLC in the end because I felt that I had expressed so much opinion about it, on so many occasions, that the least I could do was buy it, and be 100% sure that my views were vindicated. And they are (in my opinion).

    The "Diesel Legends" DLC is a terrible and horriifc concept, and the thin end of the wedge for many future potential horrors to come. Buying this "(supposedly non) zero effort" DLC actively encourages DTG to make more of the same. Future German DLCs, for example, will presumably have their current interoperability stripped from them, and people will be offered skins, layers, and timetables for 20 Euros apiece, and we will be advised to "not buy them if you do not want them".

    For anyone that did not own the Class 08, Class 101 and Class 52, but did own GWE (and likes GWE a lot), and had no intention of ever buying NTP or TVL...... then this pack isn't too bad. Although I should point out that in terms of comparable value, this DLC is 2/3rds the cost of the three-route Rush Hour pack, but contains maybe 1/1000th of the content, at best.

    For anyone that bought the WSR Class 52 as a standalone DLC in good faith, expecting to be able to get more (timetabled) use out of it without paying again and again and again, this Diesel Legends DLC is a kick in the teeth. And when your teeth fall to the floor, they are stamped on with a big mallet, crushed into a fine powder and mixed into a laxative pill that is then given to a seriously overweight cow with three weeks build-up of constipation, and then said cow releases the content of its bowels all over your face. And then you get slapped in the face.

    Perhaps I am a glutton for punishment, buying something I was fairly sure that I'd hate buying, both in principle and practice... but I would say that there are other DLCs that I have bought, partly expecting to regret my purchase (but taking a punt), but found myself incredibly pleasantly surprised, including DB BR 204, DB BR 363, Isle of Wight and Arosa.

    But the Diesel Legends DLC wasn't a pleasant surprise at all. It was exactly what I expected - a complete waste of money. Even the completely Facebooked Oakville DLC has some redeeming features...... But the colour blue isn't really even worth a single pound or euro, or even a US or Canadian dollar. If I had found the "52 in blue" DLC to be worthy of legend, then I would assuredly say so. But I didn't. So I won't..

    I suggest that people follow Sam's advice in the launch stream for this DLC and..... "Don't buy it." Not at any price.
     
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  11. TinTin_57

    TinTin_57 Well-Known Member

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    Speechless to be honest
     
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  12. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    Doubtful. As Matt explained, the reason for diesel legends existing is a gap in (revenue producing) occupation for the core gameplay team. If this was all about getting additional revenue for providing layers, DTG would have done this a lot sooner and probably never offered free layers in the first place. Also, if this is about monetizing layers, then why is there a free NTP and TVL layer for diesel legends? Wouldn‘t those have been sold separately then or not been done at all?

    This was never promised and you should have been aware of this when buying it. I know it‘s something of a norm for German content, but not for British content. For example, I bought the C40-8W and fully expect to never see it on other routes. And that‘s fine since it was never advertised anywhere as coming to other routes. Sure, it‘s not ideal to have two Class 52 DLCs, but then again, I bought three Br 185s over the course of TSW. Therefore, the Class 52 issue is hardly exclusive to Diesel Legends.

    Are you feeling alright? Maybe you should lie down for a bit. In all seriousness though, no reason to get this worked up. I‘m sure we all understand your position without such extensive metaphors.


    Look, I get where you‘re coming from. Tempers have been running high concerning the re-use of rolling stock lately. But I don‘t think there‘s any need for some the end is nigh attitude because of this one DLC. We‘ll see if and in what form such a style of DLC may return in the future.
     
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  13. phillip.good

    phillip.good Well-Known Member

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    That’ll be your opinion and you are welcome to it of course.

    I rather enjoyed it once the majority of the bugs were fixed.

    Definitely in my top 5
     
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  14. Thunderer

    Thunderer Well-Known Member

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    Personally I'd like to think that DTG listened to the forums when lots of us were saying that the 52 is a great loco, but not much fun when restricted to 25mph on WSR.

    I was quite happy to buy Diesel legends just to open up the 52, it's an iconic loco and they did it justice putting it in blue.
     
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  15. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the advice, which I always try to accept with good grace and humility..... I appreciate your concern for my well-being. But... I am fine thanks. There's something about the extremely hyperbolic marketing that DTG uses that just... um... brings all of the verbal diarrhoea straight outta me...... in kind... you know.... makes it all flood out in a legendary surge..... ;-)

    I considered my "Colon Failure" metaphor very carefully, as it happens. Although there was something that I didn't actually check until just right now, which makes my lavatorial description.... um... quite fitting....... Here are a "duo" of pictures that makes one of my points about the blue re-skin, using less than a thousand words:

    Before:
    Toilet Fushing in Red.jpg

    After:

    Toilet Fushing in Blue.jpg

    So the Class 52 was apparently "re-built from the ground up"..... but apparently they didn't get very far..... the "TOILET FUSHING" label wasn't even corrected in the new all singing and dancing blue version..... Shurely they couldn't have Fushed It Up twice, starting from the ground and working up...... and make exactly the same spelling error, with this completely new blue loco....? Shurley not....?

    Well, they didn't. It is the same loco, and the re-skin was done with such little care that.... now I don't like using the word "lazy".... and it is not the right word anyway.... because actually it is almost contemptuous. And to then charge £15 (or anything at all) for this amateurish partial re-skin is indeed a kick in the teeth, and a slap in the face, with a huge dump of an alien abducted cow's warm bowel contents as the only respite between the kicking and the slapping.

    The worst thing for me is that I strongly suspected (but didn't know) that they could not be bothered to fix the FUSHING plate. And when I actually checked.... oh look.... what a (complete lack ofl) surprise....!

    With this DLC...... DTG are absolutely taking the pith. And I suspect that it will become stuff of legend.... retold for thousands of years to the children of gaming developers. I don't yet know if the context will be "salutory warning" or if it will become part of the "magical art". Only time will tell.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2021
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  16. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    Actually, I hope that this "slightly repainted Class 52 in blue DLC" was just a momentary aberration, and one that DTG will not repeat, or indeed... develop as part of their future modus operandi.... But you have to give DTG feedback in the starkest terms, for it to be listened to.... and I needed to atone for my sin of making a purchase which willl look like support for this DLC in concept.... because cold hard cash has a very loud voice....

    Far from the end being nigh..... the future signs for TSW are really good. Especially if you caught last night's fantastic Roadmap stream with Nat and Adam. Rapid Transit was redeveloped for free with a new timetable. And now WSR is getting the final touches with free additional services for the Class 101. So, they could have done the same with GWE. And I think that all of that is reasonable and to be expected - and reasonable for the Class 52 to be added for free to GWE... and, actually... the Class 33 as well (which should also be added to ECW and SHS).

    But Adam's team goes much further. Retro-fitting stuff like PIS and level crossings is not something that I would expect at all. So that is a very valuable bonus. And now.... following feedback.... both the core team and preservation team are looking at initiating a project to clean up night running and night lighting....across the board.... And all that work (IMHO) is a bonus that outweighs the aberration of the "Class 52 FUSHING clone DLC".

    I hope that restores the balance for you.

    NB: I do buy quite a lot of DTG's stuff... because I absolutely adore their two train simulator games. And these games do (very enjoyably) soak up a lot of my time (which is the significant "cost"). If I had been paid to play TSW and TS 2012 at my normal hourly rate, then I would have made about £100,000 so far. Or put another way - I would rather play TSW and TS2012 than work and make about £100,000. That's how much I value these two games. It's not insignificant.

    And they've only really messed up in a big way with this "bodged Class 52 DLC", and, of course, Oakville. So - I am broadly speaking, very happy about the other 95% of their content... ;-)
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2021
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  17. Tonto62

    Tonto62 Well-Known Member

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    Can I just say, again, that I bought this on day one and I'm thoroughly enjoying it. I only bought TSW in the first place because Northern Trans Pennine existed. Tees Valley I enjoyed even more but since then, apart from locomotive dlcs, there's been nothing for BR blue era fans so I grabbed this with both hands. I can overlook the temporal anomalies as I'm not familiar with the locations having only been to Paddington once. As a Manchester lad, I'm used to diesels working under ohle so no immersion breaker there for me. It's a four track main line with big diesels flying about, why would I not enjoy it? Many thanks to Matt and the team for bringing this blue oasis into the modern desert that is TSW2.

    I did the 2130 oil train from Acton yard to Reading and in TSW style, gave it the beans, and it was a pretty ordinary, greens all the way run, apart from a slow wiggle through the goods line at Hayes. I did notice though a couple of local stopping trains heading for Paddington pass me after Hayes and Harlington. I wondered what the signalman would do if I was running late. The next evening I set off from Acton but kept my speed below 25mph. I thought I might be held at a red to allow the up trains to pass before I was allowed into the loop but no, the loop was signalled and I pulled across the up line and into the goods line. I got stopped short of Hayes and Harlington and the local trains passed me there. The signal stayed red and I thought I'd broken something but then, a class 31 with a semi fast overtook me heading for Reading. This is the first time I've seen this happen in TSW. When it completed it's station stop I was allowed back onto the main line. If you try this however, make sure you have the next signal aspect turned on. The signal there is faulty and didn't change. The HUD however confirmed I was ok to pass. Once back on the main line and back up to full speed you now have a stopping train in front of you and you can expect yellow and even red signals every time it calls at a station. This was definitely one of the best drives I've had in TSW.
     
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  18. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    Good to hear! I'm glad we're having a civil discussion :)

    I agree on the re-skin actually. While it was said that the 52 would be "rebuild", it's blatantly obvious that little happened besides changing the skin. This even shows in other locos, the MRCE Br 182 shares a lot of the issues of the DB Br 182 (according to the forums - I don't own HLL myself) that shouldn't have made it across to a new release. Technically, Matt said that we're just paying for the timetable with Diesel Legends, not for the locos (and that's also why I'm not too bothered by the 52 re-skin), but it would have been nice to see the 52 get some proper attention.

    I think it might be. It was after Diesel Legends that Sam said DTG had their lightbulb moment concerning re-used rolling stock. I'm not comfortable excluding this sort of DLC in the future, but I think such content will be considered more carefully in the future.

    The difference would be that Adam would probably add a rail tour service or two, while Diesel Legends got a completely new timetable. I know that that is what Adam did for Rapid Transit, but I think that was a special case (which won't be repeated) since RT is easily one of the worst routes in TSW and the existing timetable was meh to put it kindly.

    Agreed. Adam's aims are fantastic. If he could now manage to up the quality of his patches and avoid what happened last time, I'm happy. :)

    I'm too. TSW's got its issues but I still spend a significant part of my leisure time playing it. There are problems, but, overall, we're going in a good direction.
     
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  19. borg#1850

    borg#1850 Well-Known Member

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    Following on what synthetic-angel said a way back up this post, I have noticed that the bugged German shunter is now on Special offer. Did make me laugh when everyone was saying how bad it is. Although of course not everyone is part of these forums and might just buy it anyway.

    It would really be lovely to see something brought out that is bug free. Though Cathcart seems to be getting good reviews "Mostly"!
     
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  20. borg#1850

    borg#1850 Well-Known Member

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    What's up with Oakville. I only bought it because I model Canadian trains. Not played it much. Would be good to know what to look out for or miss.
     
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  21. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    I'm sure synthetic.angel will have more to say on this but here's my take.

    Oakville suffers from an identity crisis. It was marketed as a route focused on switching in industrial areas, but the reality is that the timetable is full of mainline runs and the little switching there is, is uninspired. SPG's switching is vastly superior to my mind. My speculation is that DTG tried to offer consoles something like SPG (hence the number of mainline runs) when it didn't exist on consoles while simultaneously offering something new for PC (hence the marketing focus on switching in industrial areas), but that only diluted the focus of the route. Even the mainline runs aren't great since the route feels utterly dead. There are all these tracks for commuter and freight traffic to co-exist and all you see are some GPs here and there.
     
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  22. Slemcer

    Slemcer Well-Known Member

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    There's one thing that's unique to OSD, it's the ethanol loading procedure. But like everything else this hasn't been worked out thoroughly.
    When doing timetable services with loading operations there's no objective to do this, you rather have to wait 10 minutes real time ... how boring!
    Then, for almost all the shunting services you're unable to obtain a gold medal without mindlessly driving back and forth.
    There are (of course) localisation mistakes, which might not bother you when playing the game in English.
    There's a lot of track visible in 3D but not on the map, just because you can't drive there.
    The exception to that "rule" is a track you need to use, but it's still not on the map ... (It's at the Burlington triangle)
    These are just some of the things that come to my mind, there may be more.
     
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  23. IfICanDream

    IfICanDream Active Member

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    I was also glad to see it on sale and picked it up as well. Nice work.
     
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  24. shhweeet#4292

    shhweeet#4292 Well-Known Member

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    Well I’ve just started to play Diesel Legends and the Great Western route and I’ve got to be honest Geat Western is pretty boring for me with it’s straight wide 4 tracks etc. It’s good fun blasting the Class 52 at full pelt though. I suspect Great Western will be more suited to the HST which is designed for straight high speed runs which I haven’t tried yet, however up to now the Diesel Legends BR trains I’ve tried feel so slow on this route. Hopefully the Class 101 DMU will feel better suited on it’s runs? Also does anyone know how to switch on the AWS on the class 52? I know it’s down by the left of the drivers seat apparently but I can’t find it with the immersion control system? :( I’ve done two runs, one with the Class 52 as an express train and the other with the Class 08 rescuing a class 52 train that had broken down. Both runs seemed perfect to me and I’ve done them both twice now but the best I can achieve is a silver medal? I mean all you do with the class 52 on this particular run is keep it floored for most of the journey. Hum. ( Best top speed I saw with it was 91mph )
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2021
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  25. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    I think I will pass up this opportunity to talk about Oakville in depth in this thread.... partly because Oakville has now gone off the boil (development for the DLC has been pushed back many months), but mainly because it would be a massive derail, because there is so much that is wrong with it. In short... the Oakville DLC was about one-third completed... and was then published in a part-built and non-tested state... as a pre-alpha build.... and then it was mis-marketed in the most atrocious way to give the impression it was twice as large in scope than it really was. The Oakville DLC is in a parlous state, even now.

    Some of the long story can be found here, with respect to work that needs to be done:

    https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/adam-oakville.39847/


    and here, demonstrating the pre-alphaness of the published build:

    https://forums.dovetailgames.com/th...er-in-oakville-g-p-38-journey-m39621-1.40048/


    But maybe a picture is all that you need, as this was how the DLC was originally released:

    That picture again.jpg
     
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  26. ildario77

    ildario77 Well-Known Member

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    Don't be too harsh with DTG. They developed this DLC in the middle of a pandemic. No, wait...
     
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  27. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    "Rebuilt from the ground up" does not exclude copy-pasting graphical elements from the original version. It's one obscure decal as part of the decal sheet, which is only a small part of the skin which is much less work than the 3D model which in turn is much less work than the invisible physics model. It's like pointing out that the all-new Ford Roadwarrior re-uses the same cupholders from last year's model and claiming that it therefore isn't new at all.
     
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  28. Luke8899

    Luke8899 Well-Known Member

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    The trick for the AWS on the 52 is to stand up from the driver's seat, go into the crouch position (press the left stick on PS4 when stood up) and then walk around to the left hand side of the seat to where the the handles are for the AWS switchover and isolation, and you will be able to select them. Then make sure you stand up again before sitting down in the seat, otherwise the driver sits with their head sticking through the roof, or at least it did on the original 52.

    GWE is a very flat route with consistent speeds and so it's not quite as rewarding as something like NTP in my opinion, where you literally cannot sit back and relax at all. But the Diesel legends services do a good job of adding some complexity with coupling/uncoupling and of course the gear changes in the class 101. But as I said before the best thing, if you have it, is that the 31 gets to go through it's paces, it's one of the trickier locos because its brakes take years to release and it's on the semi-fast services so you don't get too much respite between brake applications.
     
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  29. Tonto62

    Tonto62 Well-Known Member

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    Anyone struggling to release the brakes on the class 31 on this dlc, check that air passenger is selected. Air goods seems to be the default setting which makes life very difficult on a stopping passenger train.
     
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  30. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    At least you get air! In TVL when forced to pull a 101, all you get is vacuum.....
     
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  31. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    And that would be a fair point, had they "re-built the Class 52 from the ground up". I think that you will find that there was a lot more "copying and pasting", and a lot less of the "building it again from scratch".

    In fact, if the "FUSHING" label was re-used in some (almost) "wholly new design", built from scratch, then that is even worse.... because they had the opportunity to look at it closely a second time, and decide whether it was right, and they decided (for a second time) that it was fine. And this would be the "second time" that it got a thorough check-over by QA, as some (almost) entirely new product... and they failed again, in exactly the same way. That's seriously bad..... That points to very serious failings in the QA process, if there is one.....
     
  32. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I get that, and I think you are right, that this timetable mod was probably a result of feedback (in fact, I suggested that the Class 52 should be let loose as a sub on GWE a very long time ago....).

    Anyway, as predicted, my view has now changed from "utterly regretted the purchase" to just "regretted the purchase". I regret the purchase because purchases of this DLC send the wrong signal to DTG to make more just like it, and charge a ridiculous price for them.

    I have had a go at the scenarios and done a couple of runs in the Class 52. And goofed around Old Oak Common for a bit with shunters. And my opinion now is that this pack is exactly what was needed to maximise what is available on GWE. To bring it up to standard, and make GWE a better value proposition for future purchasers of the route...... but only if the timetable was free, like the one with Rapid Transit.

    To be worth £15, the DLC really needed to have an all new set of locos, such as the Class 35, Class 42 and perhaps a Class 50. Or just the Class 35 and Class 42, but with decent blue reskins (done properly) for the Class 52 and Class 33.

    For the DLC to be truly legendary, then a depiction of 18000, the gas turbine loco (owned by Pete Waterman.....?), with some suitable rolling stock, would have been awesome. I wouldn't be surprised if Mr Waterman would be prepared to contribute to the development, especially if the proceeds went to charity..... now... where's my little black book........? ;-)
     
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  33. johnny69wells

    johnny69wells Active Member

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    How do you turn cab lights on, class 52?
     
  34. shhweeet#4292

    shhweeet#4292 Well-Known Member

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  35. johnny69wells

    johnny69wells Active Member

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    Thanks shhweeet.
     
  36. bartolomaeusz

    bartolomaeusz Well-Known Member

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    I enjoy both the GWE and the BR Blues - so this pack was great to me. I have all the DLC - frankly it's Arosa that doesn't do a lot for me, but I still drive it. Enjoy the game very much and appreciate a game developer that is so engaged in it as DTG.
     
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  37. Rutger Luiten

    Rutger Luiten Active Member

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    With the "new" class 52 the made a mistake with the alpha channel in the texturing. You can't look trough the engine room windows and on the roof the grills are just grey/black.
     
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