In 2017, DTG pulled the old Class 150/2 DMU from Thomson Interactive. This was in preparation for a new Arriva 150/2, which released in May 2018. That DLC itself disappeared after April 2020. As a result, this leaves us only the Class 150/1 as our only option on Steam, and which has been left to extremely negative reviews. Here's a sampling. "A quickly published add-on just to make money. It accelerates too quick, the speed gauge is well out, the brake cylinder dial on all the brake steps is totally wrong and the switches for the lights don't work individually. I'm on these units nearly everyday and this product is way off. Really disappointing as I was eagerly waiting for it." "Come on DTG, seriously with all the data and the information you have access to for various trains. How could you get this wrong? This is a DMU (or a Railcar), NOT a TGV or a Maglev! The accelleration is WAY TOO FAST and the train just lurches forward if you take the power higher than step 4. This needs to be fixed as it is VERY unrealistic and there is no excuse for bad physics like this if the developers bother to do their research thoroughly." "I would like to mention one quote from the description of the 150/1 ''Highly Detailed'' this is far from the truth although yes the exterior modelling is satisfactory the screenshots on the sales page do not show a number of issues." I omitted the sound reviews, but the comments are that they are lifted from a Class 158 and do not match at all. And this is the only Class 150 currently available on Steam. It's time to bring the old Class 150/2 back. We currently do not have one on Steam, yet even to this day, it continues to get use in the Steam Workshop. Stop breaking, for new users, all of the Workshop content that you tout we should go to play. Bring the classic 150/2 back to Steam (in its original DLC appID of 222567) given that its successor has been forced to move on to greener...tracks. That's all that need be said. Then AP's version can continue to be sold separately and with its own expectations instead of "I bought the AP 150/2 and I can't use Workshop scenarios". And it would let me use all the scenarios and reskins that are finding their way into my possession.
I agree, the Class 150 should be upgraded to fix problems and performance. In addition to bringing a Class 150/2 that is compatible with Workshop, there is a gap, as there are services that are operated by a Class 150, and without a Workshop compatible it makes it difficult to create scenarios. It will be very useful on routes like: South Wales Coastal, Riviera Line, and a possible route in Northern England. The versions of Armstrong Powerhouse are very good, however, there should be another option of Class 150 for those who prefer only Steam releases.
I believe the entire reason the 150/2 was removed from Steam is AP bought the rights to it from Thomson, and AP pulled it from sale so they could use the model for their own version to sell at double the price. I think you should ask AP if they can bring a different livery back to Steam (The ATW liveried version was removed because Arriva refused to renew the license). I would like to see it return though.
The original, I understand, was indeed purchased by AP. The reason he removed it was to promote the Arriva model on Steam instead. The Arriva model can no longer be promoted. My proposal is to bring the original model back - which still gets Workshop use even over his model at times - and continue to make a small residual income off of that. There's no reason he can't do that, and I hope the "it's not a quality product" thing will not be a reason not to bring it back, exactly as it was, unchanged. In fact, he could if he wanted to bring his completely unbranded 150/2 pack over and include the old version as a bonus without making it separately available, or provide download codes for it as a bonus. Victor, the model cannot be edited, or as least not too much. If anything, Richard can apply his sounds to it and put it back out. The only question becomes will it work with existing content? That is the goal here. There are a lot of things he can do to fix this gap in the Workshop. The question is whether he would be willing to do any of that. And just FYI, I'm considering the 150/2 on his site anyway, but I already have his Arriva model from Steam. So there is also the aspect of "I'm buying it twice" at play here even if it's a very minicsule part of the overall package (say, 50 cents out of the full $10). There is a very real benefit, however; I can likely sub in the other models if they fit the route better than Arriva does on Workshop content. After all, it still cost me more than five bucks the first time.
Well, we have an excellent class 150 by Armstrong Powerhouse, but we also had a Class 142, right? However the DTG version may have come late, since it was forgotten, it has no reskins for it. We also had a Class 60, and recently DTG released its version, I haven't tested either Class 142 or Class 60, but who knows, one day we may not have an update as it did in the DLCs: - East Coast for Class 91 - SWT for Class 159 - Ex-Silverlink for Class 150/1 I will certainly purchase the Class 150 from Armstrong Powerhouse one day, but it would make it easier to have a more affordable one.
The Class 150/2 from AP was originally supposed to be an enhancement pack for the original sold on steam, but Thomson/Oovee weren't happy with that as it violated their EULA (Thomson in particular are very strict with this- WCML Trent Valley is basically unmoddable except for freeware steam workshop content). As a result AP had to purchase the model itself (it was quite old so likely Thomson were happy to sell it off) and the result was a full rolling stock pack direct from AP and the cut down ATW one on steam (because of TOC licensing limitations and all that fun stuff). Best thing would be to ask AP as I don't think DTG have any control over it. Even if AP agrees to bring back the old 150 then it would have to be different (the original is listed under Thomson/Oovee) so none of the steam workshop scenarios and reskins would work anyway. AP might have a sale in the next two weeks (for Easter) so if you want to pick up the 150/2 cheaply then wait for that.
Going to call that flat-out wrong. They could bring back the old one, or at least give it as a bonus to any new model that comes to Steam, and even give it away directly as part of their 150/2 pack. I mean, they own it, they can do whatever they want with it and Thomson doesn't have a say now. As a result, they can bring back all the scenarios and such in the working pack. The only thing he might want to do is improve certain sounds for the 150 and fix the trains in each scenario to use those sounds. Knowing how Richard does his scenarios, he may choose to add more AI as well. But that, and really nothing else, is needed on the Steam side, and this fixes a huge Workshop compatibility issue, which is all I'm really looking to do here.
Diverging from the subject, but this is one of the reasons why the DTG could launch a WCML: Rugby - Crewe, and we could drive from London Euston to Crewe.
Well, in that case, we would also be able to drive to Holyhead. But then the NWC problems remain. Do they expand and sell as a new route, or put blank liveries and give it free to existing owners? They would not pay for and add new liveries to sell the same route. I wouldn't. Also, if going Stafford-Crewe as a separate DLC, might as well connect to Liverpool-Manchester at Warrington Bank Quay to add the High Speed section in full. And from there either terminate again at Liverpool or continue to Preston. I could argue that going to Birmingham is a good idea, too.
I would love if we can do London - Holyhead on one run, but i think that the route origin for North Wales Coastal isn't the same as the WCML South, it is not impossible to fix this, but we haven't had any of that in the workshop yet. They should bring the route as it was taken out of the sale, new liveries with update.
You are forgetting something. Licenses cost money. As I already stated, I can't see them slapping new trains on the route with a new license and shipping it back out. If they do that, the most you can hope for is a set of unskinned trains like SWC got. If you want updated trains with new liveries and trademarks, you're going to have to pay for it. It won't be free. Also, if they change the time period for the route - something that I think has also been suggested, whether it be going back to the 60s or advancing it to today - that is also a different route completely. It would still not be free.
What I'm saying is the original is branded as Thomson/Oovee and to get the exact same DLC item back on sale on steam would mean AP selling the product with the original Thomson/Oovee association to maintain compatibility. I.e. selling someone else's product under their own name. Probably why it was pulled from steam as AP weren't allowed to sell it 'as is' so instead sold it independently with the enhancement pack upgrades as standard, hence the 150/2 DMU Pack to differentiate it and overcome the legal stuff.
OK, so he can't sell it by itself. But nothing says he can't give it away as a free bonus so that those wanting the original 150 for routes can have it. He now owns it, so he can request from Steam codes to give to buyers and have a bunch on hand ready to mail out. I guess perhaps this was not something he wanted to do. Especially when he was selling one seen as superior, anyway. Currently, there is no available route between Crewe and Holyhead. So for some people, this is a new route. People still create scenarios for it. Look on ATS. This is a route we need to have back in the store.
I'm sure if something like that was feasible then it would have been done. It would make sense to keep the 150/2 as an enhancement pack and the original on steam in the first place as more people would be willing to pay a lower price for an enhancement pack instead of buying the entire pack again from AP. Oh well. I'm all for the return of North Wales Coastal, I'm just not keen on DTG doing WCML Trent Valley when it has already been covered. Perhaps ATS should release some of their routes on steam so more of us can enjoy them without all the dependencies necessary for it to run. I don't like the idea of paying a subscription or paying for assets separately to make a route run (i.e. the OHLE pack).
Same here, though I’d just add this: Having installed the Northern Lines route, I toyed with the idea of getting the Northern Lines Electric, but this required parting with a tenner for the ATS OHLE Pack. In the end, I bought the pack, and I must say, it’s actually a thing of beauty Wish other routes might make optional use of it too, but can readily see why people would balk at this. Some of the existing OHLE looks terrible, with catenary bending in mid air.
Most third party routes and locos use base assets rather than creating everything from scratch. Most of the dependencies are things like big stations or specific types of bridges etc and if they're in a route already, which many people have, why rebuild them? Personally I don't see an issue with the subware fashion of putting out third party content as everyone then makes money depending on how many people sign up. And with the subscription you get £6 off the OHLE pack, 10% off some payware packs from JT, and access to routes you don't get from other places. If that's not "value" for you, fair enough but many consider it to be so Personally I have issues with a lot of third party content, but the concept itself sits fine with me
If the OHLE pack actually applied to other routes automatically (like an enhancement pack) then in my eyes it would be worth it, unless you really want one of the routes that use it. £33 for a year's subscription for the discounts it includes isn't worth it for me (especially when most routes and scenarios are dependency heavy and often inaccessible). If I were to buy Peterborough to Cambridge for instance it works out cheaper non-sub but still more expensive than most routes from DTG or JT by the time you include the OHLE pack. It's a great looking route but it appeals to a different audience and that's just not me. Honestly I've never had a problem with the OHLE as I'm not really that knowledgeable on the types used and where it should be (apart from above the track!). The only OHLE that looks bad to me are the fixed shape rectangular ones that are fixed above the track when laid (on older routes like WCML North). They could potentially sell Peterborough to Cambridge via AP like Wherry lines (note that the dependencies are all DTG assets so releasing via steam might be possible, also like Wherry lines) but selling externally might not be ideal if they plan on frequent updates and extensions (from what I heard from one of Alan Thomson's videos).
You said it yourself there. There are multiple updates and extensions coming for all ATS routes. Peterborough-Cambridge is extending to Kings Lynn and down to KX. The ECML merge is getting a massive upgrade. Missing link is being extended in the Manchester direction as well at the moment.
I never said do Trent Valley. I said connect to Trent Valley at Stafford. And possibly connect to WCMLS at Birmingham. But perhaps they want it as a unique route, too. Which would then be seen badly by ATS. Not surprising given the scenarios they put out for them all require additional paid DLC and not really have their own trains. DTG never does that. Includes trains and scenarios for those trains.
Their OHLE is the best in the simulator, to be fair. You can almost hear the low frequency buzz of the current when you look at it in the simulator.
I don't really understand this proposal, people will still favour the AP version more than an improved thompson one. If you don't know, the AP version is actually an improved thompson one (basically what your are asking but not on steam). An AP 150/2 can also be replaced with RWTools to swap out the old one. With the 150/1, it can be vastly improved with the AP EP. Honestly I don't really like this proposal, but hey that is your opinion and you are entitled to that!
Right, right. I figured all this out. The problem is that there are still mountains of content that require the original Class 150/2 package. It is so heavily used historically that it makes more sense to get the old version bundled somewhere, with a new Class 150/2 (a new AP reskin of their existing package would be fine, exclusive to Steam) and thus improve the Workshop dependency as there are people still using it who don't know that it's off sale. Heck, I found a Railworks Class 101 used just a couple weeks ago and got permission to publish Weardale Teesdale versions on top of them (this was granted and they are now in the user's route collection linked from my space). The point is that, while it's easy for some of us to use Ts-Tools, it's not that easy for others. I still have to figure out if the 150/1 SWC scenarios will work on the new unbranded edition of the route, and plan to visit SWC soon to put that on my agenda of immediate things to try out. If they work, I will probably put them in the Workshop since DTG can't be concerned about putting new versions with the train. It's the least we can do to help others out who have the train. (I might also make AP enhanced versions over time, but that's not as important.)
