First things first, read this: https://live.dovetailgames.com/live...sh-hour&utm_term=rush-hour-creating-immersion Its the article where some of the HUD changes get discussed with Matt. I read it and I have to give some feedback. First: The TSW HUD as it stands now always bothered me in one central way: A missing transparency option. In TS Classic you had the option to make the HUD barely visible so you can see the cab itself (especially important for german trains with Ebula and MFDs left and right.). So why not adding that? Second: I dont understand the design decision to put the gradient monitor into the pause menu. In the same article Matt says that the primary goal is not to break immersion BUT: To look at the gradient profil, you have to pause the menu which breaks Immersion everytime you do it. So why not giving an option to add a smaller gradient profile monitor on the screen. Counter argument would be that the screen will be too full of things: This is why you as a player customize your HUD, shutting of this you dont need. I for example would shut off the Speedometer because I only need the actual speedlimit (not the upcoming). Why they dont put that into a separate UI element, I dont get that. And here is the biggest problem I do have with the TSW HUD and the changes for Rush Hour: In so many games you can move any part of the HUD separately and place it where you need it. Why is everything in TSW so hard-placed? I really wish we could place the stuff we need wherever we want to have it. Please, give us this freedom. Also: The track monitor of MS Train Simulator was very popular. Why dont you bring that back in a redesigned way? The Monitor was small, you had the actual speedlimit, upcoming signals and actual speed in there, everything you need. It was a compact tool for players being a bit more experienced and a decent compromise between no HUD and too much HUD. I play Train Sim games for long years since MS Train Simulator and at the moment I only get the choice between no HUD and too much HUD. The infos I need are put into the pause menu or a far too big speedometer which even cant be hidden with a transparency option. Please DTG, you can do better. Give us more choices, more options and let the players customize their HUDs as they want to do it. The changes coming with Rush Hour are, at least to me, nothing big. But that is just my opinion. More feedback from other players are heavily desired here. But please discuss with manners and dont forget to respect other opinions. I added a picture of the Train Monitor like it is in Open Rails. It can be customized in its size and is relatively small. You can move it where it suits your need on-screen.
...and rather than making the Gradient part of the hud, have it as an option that you can enable/disable as with the CTRL+4/5 keys for on screen warnings, etc.
I support your point of view. I would like to see the gradients and upcoming speed limits, but not in the pause menu. Make it small and allow me to show it on screen. Also I think the speedometer HUD should be simplified. There are a number of ornaments that can be removed. Also, the information at the top is spread over two different corners at the screen. It can be much smaller and please put it all near the speedometer HUD, so you can find all you need at one spot. Have a good look at MSTS and TS2021 would be very useful and please, please pick the good points of these.
The ideal thing at least to me is that you have several modules e.g. speed module (actual speed+actual speed limit+ acceleration-deceleration-meter), gradient module (actual gradient + gradient profile), track monitor module (upcoming signals and speed limit changes), each one resizable and with transparency options available, also free movable in a separate customizing menu. That would be great.
Please do NOT make any "improvement" that removes the icons for the next signal. Without those people with colour vision issues will find the game unplayable.
The whole HUD needs to be modular and flexible so users can decide exactly what they need and can adjust it as they progress or want a different challenge. E.g. the gradient could be on the HUD, or it could be on the pause menu, the icons the fonts the layout, should all be mix and match. I've seen games do this so there is a basic set of boxes where HUD elements can go and then the user can drag and drop as they please and completely personalise their HUD.
The HUD on Final Fantasy 14 can be adjusted any which way. The possible configurations are endless. Instead of having a speedo type HUD, the speed could simply be digital like below… Your Speed: 71mph Line Speed: 90 mph With just two lines of text, the big speedo has gone. I don’t necessarily dislike the speedo, but this is another option to help minimise it’s appearance.
The problem I see of having a vital piece of information such as upcoming speed changes in the Pause screen, is that it creates an additional thing in your mind that you feel the need to check periodically. Eg A speed change is notified up the top right as usual....but now you are also going to think "hmm I wonder if there is one following straight after it" and now you pause to check. This process will repeat (at least for me) every time there is a speed change ahead. I can see myself pausing alot more than I did previously -- so I cannot understand how this makes it more immersive overall. At least give players a choice to put this information on screen during gameplay for those who want it.
Once you’ve ran a route once or twice, the location of speed limits etc should start to become second nature. Once it does, that info is rather redundant, so can be hidden away in a pause menu. Think of it is as a learning aide. Your role as driver should be to use that information to learn the route like the back of your hand. This way, we can still drive the trains in the game without having to pass lots of tests.
What you are suggesting takes alot of time. Memorising where every single speed change is on every single route isn't something the average player aspires to Im aware that RL drivers do but concessions need to be made for those who wish to play a little more casually (but not casual enough to have to pause the game each time to access vital info)
I agree. Everything you want on screen in the form of a hud (Or huds should you want seperate ones), should be made customizable, both in on/off and it's placement on screen. I don't like the current hud not sitting in the far corner. So to cater for everyones' taste, it has to go fully custom.
In regards to a track monitor...if implemented correctly, it doesn't need to take up a whole lot of screen real estate. For example below, Diesel Railcar Sim's monitor is pretty nice and conveys all the information you need in a small window My wish is for something akin to this to be added to TSW one day (with an option to toggle it off or even better customise it).
I’d like this very much. Of course with it stating your exact speed, such as 71.3 mph, for example. The current speedo looks like it’s been snatched out of a car racing game. It looks so out of place in a train simulator.
They haven’t moved it from the HUD, this is an additional gradient profile in the pause menu, showing gradients that are coming up rather than just the current gradient the HUD shows.
I'm going to go against the grain here. I'm actually quite happy with the current HUD. It gives me all the information I need to drive trains. The only things I didn't like were those floating icons for upcoming signals and speed limits. Having sent those away, I'm content with the rest.
Its totally ok if you are happy with the current HUD. I can see its advantages too. But more options to individualize it and customize it would be cool.
I agree. Seems like a no brainer to be honest. Also getting rid of that "objective complete" as an option would be cool as well for me personally
This TS1 style has some problem that it was hard to realize how close you are until hit the speed limit That was a big problem on TS1 due to the font it use was way too thin. It will be better that colour change accroding to how close you are on Speed Limit, the current one already does but it changed AFTER you went higher than speed limit, this should be moved to BEFORE according to range so perhaps yellow at 2mph below 20, 5 below 75 and 10 below 125. The HUD need to give some contrast which the one in game does managed to do this
In fact, rather than trying to provide a TS1 style gradient/speed limit HUD and put it in pause menu (which make problem worse as 1: It does not feel immersive when I had to pause for it and 2: The information contained is not enough to attract me check it rather than risking overspeed at a speed trap on NTP), what DTG can consider is Provide a actual map, detained as TS1 which state station names, loop code and other information, with signal (showing which side they faced, consider how it looks like on SimSig and Nimby Rail) and speed limit (showing which side they face, of course). If anyone want to argue it was impossible to stuff all those information on it, think of how real life map does 1: Cut sector by sector so you does not need a paper sized as a wall to have all information together and 2: Provide specific map for chockpoint with way too many crossings and signal and 3: Code with a,b,c,d....on map and use a chart to explain below without stuffing the map with words. Basically the CURRENT in game HUD are enough for operation, the idea of putting Gradient on Pause is strange and I rather wish it can be put at bottom like TS1. I really prefer more chart and map and, in case on NTP where you almost always use the same junction to switch for slow line, say it clearly in document or mark it on map. Another 2 ideas on HUD. 1: Just increase the limit of current HUD able to show 3 blocks of signal (mainly to tell the distance) which also apply to speed limit (to prevent speed trap). 2: Adjust the HUD so instead of showing actual distance, it bounce out as you approach (1mile, 500,200) which able driver to have some more time to act (like in speed trap on NTP, 1mile-45,500-45 1mile-15, 200-45, (45 activated) 500-15, 200-15) Well, all above expect the map idea was not really immersive, but the most immersive way now we have is hit F1 and grab your homemade route knowledge notebook which is 100 times immersive than pause to check map, and if DTG put some more effort to translate data they could see into data WE could see, more people are able to homemade routeknowledge which fulfill the target of immersive.
Yes, as I said, I got rid of them, but I think the "objective complete" is fine, though I wish it were silent.
Good ideas on here. It’d be good to see a transparency option and one to move the hud. Personally I’d like to be able to minimise it further a bit
The only thing I would like to be added is just separate small indicator of current line speed limit, thats all. Customizable HUD as a whole with various modules is really great idea of course, I agree.
Not sure why we need a seperate feedback topic as there's already been plenty of feedback in the topic about the article. https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/train-sim-world-2-rush-hour-creating-immersion.42538/ To summarize what I've said in that topic; I'd prefer the gradient profile and upcoming speed limits in a track profile HUD like good old Train Simulator has.
Looks like the old MSTS HUD. I've offered my feedback before that I prefer it as an on screen overlay similar to the way Trainz does it It should able to be turned on or off per taste
I’m personally content that it’s on the pause screen. Real drivers don’t have this data and if I’m wanting to follow their skill as closely as I can, having that data as reference rather than live is going make me learn it more. That said, it could probably do with being produced as a pdf in addition to the pause screen. Pausing on console can take several annoying seconds.
HUD still has the next speed change as it is in the current state, if you are using that you only need to memorize a small number of "gotcha!" speed changes, where the speed lowers drastically right after a higher speed limit. The 30 mph on LIRR between Woodside and New York Penn comes to mind. Unless you want to drive without HUD completely, you don't need to memorize every speed change.
I like the HUD, but agree that it should be movable. In some locos, it covers the controls, especially the throttle. Being able to move it away from the controls would be so much better.
I wish the HUD's size was adjustable, could move it to what ever position you want on the screen, and had a transparency option!
That's not quite correct. Railroads have very detailed diagrams for their lines which usually include, among many other things, gradients, line speed and curvature. At least the American RRs have this and you can find many examples if you search online for "track charts". I would be very surprised if this crucial information wasn't provided to drivers elsewhere, too.
Some locomotives do have gradient and upcoming conditions displayed to the driver. Real drivers also drive their route(s) day in day out and learn them like the back of their hand. They don't really need it unless they're on an unfamiliar route. I don't know about you, I don't drive my simulation routes like that and have no interest in learning them to that degree. It is perfectly cool if you do want to learn them that way but we need to think of everyone. Paul
The current hud has been discussed many times in the past. The whole point of a hud is to provide information without taking your eyes off the direction of travel. What annoys me the most is that the information is placed in three separate corners of the screen. With larger screens becoming popular this is irritating. Frankly the top two corners information should be displayed on the bottom hud. For example, upcoming speed changes could be shown as a coloured tick on the speedometer like the red speed limit.
Yeah I feel this, the distance from normal HUD (when I have it on) to the other one in the top left is 27 inches. That is quite a long way when you're looking around the screen! It would be awesome if we could both drag them around and size them to our own satisfaction. I accept the big text is needed on TV's with console but make it an option please. Paul
This is very cool, a simple white line with the necessary information and that's it for track information.
