Trackir

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by dhekelian, Jul 23, 2021.

  1. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    I saw in the stream this was being developed and Matt was showing this off, is there a thread for this as I could not find one. I'd love to get one and try this out but not sure what or where to get them, cheers.
     
  2. Inkar

    Inkar Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Jul 23, 2021
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  3. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Inkar. I was asking if there was a thread here on these forums but thanks anyway will check it out.
     
  4. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    There are a few mentions of it dhekelian mostly people complaining when it was cut some time ago before it was brought back. There is a search box at the top right of the page that will help you find things, the results of the track-ir search will be seen at https://forums.dovetailgames.com/search/13595835/?q=track-ir&o=relevance&c[node]=97

    I do have a question about it, it seems to me that if you're using Track-IR you might want three monitors so as you look around you can still see the screen readily. I know Matt said the movements are amplified but I imagine it could get tedious if you look to far then snap back frontwards to see the monitor!

    I think it would make for interesting game-play but I think I wouldn't be able to stream with it because when I glance over to my left to check the health of the stream and stream chat I would look left in my game!

    Paul
     
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  5. dinky

    dinky New Member

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    It's one of those things that you just have to try to understand exactly how heavily amplified the movements are. The amount of movement you have to do is extremely tweakable, but most people go for configurations where 10-15 degrees of movement left or right is a full 180 in game. One habit that is difficult to break initially is using your head to look at things that are off center, but on screen---you'll have a tendency at first to want to move your head a little bit to look at something that's on the edge of your focal point to minimize eye movement, which ends up being self-defeating with head tracking. There's definitely a learning curve to using it, and it'll take you a while to find a sensitivity curve that you like, but once you've got it dialed in, it's a game changer.
     
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  6. JustWentSouth

    JustWentSouth Well-Known Member

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    I am totally intrigued by Track IR. The demo on the stream was quite impressive. How would Track IR work with TSW2 now? I would assume that I couldn't move my head out the window as was shown on the stream, but I also wonder how it would work with the center marker that either stays in the middle of the screen as you move the mouse or moves with the mouse after a right click. Anyone tried Track IR with TSW2?
     
  7. DTG Matt

    DTG Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    Nobody can try it because it isn't out just yet. You can use it once it launches with the Epic build first, and then later on Steam once it comes out on there.

    Paul - no I don't use three monitors for the game, just the one in the middle. There is a hotkey for TrackIR which pauses it (F9) so when I stream with it if I need to look around at something else and not have the game go bonkers I just pause TrackIR and then unpause it again once i'm back "in the game". I have streamed with TrackIR on TS1 though for years and it's fine. As said by someone above, you do learn to use your eyes to look at things and make more deliberate movements with your head but that wasn't a concious thing it's just happened over time. I've been using TrackIR for years and I will always use it if it's available.

    As dinky says though - once it clicks, there's no going back, you feel so much more immersed in the game.
     
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  8. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    I definitely want to get one.
     
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  9. Coastway trainspotter

    Coastway trainspotter Well-Known Member

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    I hope dtg add TrackIR support for console sometime , I don’t see any reason why not
     
  10. DTG Matt

    DTG Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    There are no drivers for TrackIR on console. That'd be the main reason why not. :)
     
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  11. CrAzZyKiLLa

    CrAzZyKiLLa Well-Known Member

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    TrainSim-Matt Lost my TrackIR 5 a long time ago but since been using Opentrack and the £10 phone app called Smoothtrack for flightsim, would you be able to test and see if this works in TSW? If not I will take a look when launches on epic next week. This would be great for people to jump into head tracking without having to purchase more expensive hardware.
     
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  12. DTG Matt

    DTG Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    Picked up a copy of Smoothtrack just now, installed OpenTrack, and fired up the game - happy to report all working just fine after the usual tweakery with the mappings to make it work more comfortably.
     
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  13. CrAzZyKiLLa

    CrAzZyKiLLa Well-Known Member

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    Great Thanks alot Matt! I will put my money towards Raildriver instead now for the full experience. Would love to get your thoughts on Smoothtrack vs TrackIR if you get chance to play about with it. hopefully will save others some money also wanting to get into headtracking!
     
  14. DTG Matt

    DTG Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    I have used Viewtracker from Steam quite extensively and it's also based on OpenTrack, they're a great option that doesnt require a fairly large investment to get the "proper" track ir - so if you can't afford the actual device this is 100% a great substitute.

    Personally I prefer TrackIR - there's something about it that feels more crisp and accurate where the opentrack versions feel more smoothed and "squishy" in their feedback. The difference is minor, and might even be in my head, but it's certainly how i've observed using ViewTracker and a quick session with SmoothTrack earlier.

    Before you invest in TrackIR though, if you've not used head tracking before, these two options (Viewtracker and SmoothTrack) are a really good cheap way to see if you'll like it first though I think, both very easy to set up and use. (Viewtracker just uses your webcam).

    Of course one BIG advantage that SmoothTrack and Viewtracker have o#ver track ir is the lack of cable and gubbins on your headset or a cap or anything - thoiugh there are also TrackIr hardware alternatives that are wireless now as well so there's plenty of options.
     
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  15. November India Charlie

    November India Charlie New Member

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    I just can't wait to try my TrackIR on TSW2, I can't play without it in American Truck Sim, Elite Dangerous or MSFlight Sim. No need for more monitors or a bigger one, it's all very natural and tweakable. In my opinion, it works better the more you stay close to a 1:1 movement, at least for me, so you can relax your head a bit more. You can also set a deadzone in the middle, but I like it without, it just feels more natural. As Matt pointed out, there are alternatives, and definitely cheaper ones. I've only used TrackIR so all I can say is that it is quick and easy to install and has worked for me in almost any conditions of light. My PC is just beside a big window and only when it's really bright and the sun is shining through, the camera can't pick the signals, but it's definitely an extreme condition. Thanks DTG for finally implementing headtracking!
     
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  16. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    So when the new update drops on Steam there will be an option in TSW2 to enable TrackIR? Just curious how it is setup. I had a look online and noticed there is a TrackIR 5 version and a TrackIR 6, is there a better version to go for or is the later one the better?
     
  17. DTG Matt

    DTG Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    I use TrackIR 5 Pro - wasnt even aware there was a 6, i'll go look into it :)

    Basically the game detects if you have it and makes it available to use automatically.
     
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  18. DTG Matt

    DTG Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    I can't see any sign of a Track IR 6, the 5 still seems to be the latest.

    There are also other options from other vendors like TrackHat and Delane Engineering who have some interesting variants including wireless options as well. Not tried those however.
     
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  19. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    My bad, it said this
    TrackNP 5 6DOF Head Tracking Gaming Professional

    I had assumed it was 6 and misread it, lol. Is this the pro version? It is on Amazon btw.

     
  20. DTG Matt

    DTG Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    Looks like it - the difference really is that the Track IR 5 Pro that I have has the "TrackClip Pro" which is a little dongle that attaches to the side of your headset. The alternative is their standard clip which is a metal "T" shaped piece which is designed to fit on to a baseball cap and provides three reflective strips that the Track IR camera can see since it also emits IR and it can watch for the reflections.

    Benefits of the hat clip are - no wires. Downsides - not as precise (but still quite good) and you need to wear a baseball cap.
    Benefits of the pro clip are - no baseball cap and greater precision tracking plus I think it works better in a wider range of lighting. Downsides - more expensive, and wire.

    For the pro clip, I have previously sometimes used a small mobile power bank - it doesnt take much power to light up three IR led's so even a small one will last quite a long time. Alternatively you can just plug it into your PC and perhaps strap the wire to the headset wire if you are using a wired headset.

    There are solutions and options to explore :)
     
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  21. Alex_m30x#7297

    Alex_m30x#7297 Well-Known Member

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    Console players whimper in no track ir or rail driver
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2021
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  22. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the info Matt, really interested in getting one. I see one from their main site which won't be delivered untill the end of August or a used one on ebay. Curious to where you got yours from?
     
  23. DTG Matt

    DTG Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    I got mine direct from Natural Point (the manufacturers) many many many years ago. I got my Track IR 4 prior to that probably from Amazon or Ebuyer or some other online store. I've used Track IR for a long time now :)
     
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  24. DTG Matt

    DTG Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    Looking on UK amazon, there some on there showing next day delivery BUT those dontseem to have the pro clip, on the baseball cap clip so when you're shopping around make sure it has a the headset pro clip if that's what you're looking for.
     
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  25. atpyatt

    atpyatt Well-Known Member

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    I recently bought a Track IR 5 + Delan Clip and would definitely recommend it, I've used it on Truck Sim and Flight Sim so far and it makes a massive difference, it really is a big step up in immersion and I wouldn't want to go back now.

    For people that are concerned that it will feel unnatural or awkward, that hasn't been my experience. Magnifying small head movements in reality to larger movements in a sim works surprisingly well, it really does trick you into thinking that you are looking left and right like you would in real life. If you're not convinced and you already own a webcam then try one of the free/low cost options such as ViewTracker or AiTrack+OpenTrack.

    On the subject of the free/low cost options; before I bought a real Track IR I did test out both ViewTracker and a combination of the free AITrack and OpenTrack software. What I would say is that the free/low cost options might work for you if you have a decent webcam and you always play in a well lit environment. I got decent results when the room was well lit, the problem was when the room was not well lit, then the webcam + face tracking solutions fell down completely for me because they weren't able to accurately track my face anymore. I more often than not play my simulation games in the evening, in a poorly lit room, so for me it had to be Track IR + either the pro clip or the Delan clip.

    I went for the Delan clip because it looked more robust being made of metal and some reviews I read were complaining about the pro clip breaking. Delan also do a complete package of clip + specially converted webcam as a cheaper alternative to Track IR that some people may want to look at, I haven't tested that though.
     
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  26. DTG Matt

    DTG Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    The Pro Clip is certianly light weight plastic and looks flimsy and my instinct would be to agree, however, I will say that mine is at least 5-6 years old now and still going strong, and I've certainly not treated it with any more consideration than anything else on my desk - at times it's been shoved into drawers or pushed around on the desk. It's still here kicking.

    That said, I really do like the look of the Delan Clip wireless unit, very tempted. Does it work with the standard Track IR camera?
     
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  27. atpyatt

    atpyatt Well-Known Member

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    I haven't tried the wireless unit but the wired Delan clip works perfectly with the genuine Track IR camera.
     
  28. Coastway trainspotter

    Coastway trainspotter Well-Known Member

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    No one was whimpering
     
  29. Alex_m30x#7297

    Alex_m30x#7297 Well-Known Member

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    I am lol
     
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  30. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    Nearly bought one but no Pro clip as you said. Someone said they used an elastic band to attach the standard reflector to their head phones but given the choice would prefer the Pro clip. Will look for the declan one.
     
  31. Coastway trainspotter

    Coastway trainspotter Well-Known Member

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    And ? What shall we do about that ?
     
  32. Alex_m30x#7297

    Alex_m30x#7297 Well-Known Member

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    Some people can’t take a joke
     
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  33. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    Got one off ebay. Looking forward to it.
     
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  34. JustWentSouth

    JustWentSouth Well-Known Member

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    Just ordered the pro clip off Amazon US; now I just need to find a set of pink ear phones!
     
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  35. DTG Matt

    DTG Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    Pink headphones make it sound better too!
    (i'm lying, to be clear :) )
     
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  36. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    We do, but at least we don’t have to dress up like a plum (wear a hat indoors) and wrangle all kinds of gadgets and cables and stuff, so there are upsides ;)
     
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  37. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    What an awesome discussion, I already run two webcams while streaming (one for me, one for raildriver and I happen to have a spare one so I will set that up for AITrack/Opentrack and give this a try.

    Thanks for the pause suggestion TrainSim-Matt - this gives me another reason to jump onto the Epic version - this is going to be fun :).
     
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  38. Allsop4

    Allsop4 Member

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    Watching Matt demo TrackIR brought a smile to my face! This is the most important feature I've wanted added to the sim. I rate it above controller/Raildriver support. It's that important to me. If we can't have VR, then we gotta have TrackIR.
    IMO, any sim with a cab or cockpit MUST support TrackIR. I'm happy it's FINALLY coming. (fingers still crossed though):)
     
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  39. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    I tried out the combination of Android App SmoothTrack and OpenTrack with TS2021 today and it works but is certainly a bit freaky and not brilliant for my motion sickness! Something you'd need to get used to I guess. If anyone is interested in trying out this combo SmoothTrack is available for any Android that supports Core AR and iPhones running iOS 13. AR Core is battery hungry though, I find I have to have my phone (Pixel 3) on its charging stand to keep up and it gets a bit hot. This is a AU$14 way into seeing if you like head tracking without shelling out for Track-IR. I'll give this a crack when the Epic version of TSW2 comes out on the 30th.

    OpenTrack is free and is available from GitHub as releases or source https://github.com/opentrack/opentrack
    SmoothTrack was AU$14 https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.epaga.smoothtrack&hl=en_AU&gl=US
    On Apple Store https://apps.apple.com/us/app/smoothtrack-head-tracker/id1528839485

    Paul
     
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  40. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

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    I have seen comments of people saying these alternatives need good light in your room and may cause trouble if you wear glasses. But you can give it a try, if it works it is quite cheap....
     
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  41. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    SmoothTrack worked fine in my dark room with my glasses and beard.

    Paul
     
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  42. CrAzZyKiLLa

    CrAzZyKiLLa Well-Known Member

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    TrainSim-Matt loving the TrackIR update so far on epic, would you be able to share your TrackIR & Opentrack settings/curves as I've never been good at tweaking them myself! An in-depth look video/stream on it would be fantastic if at all possible, like the raildriver one :)
     
  43. DTG Matt

    DTG Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    Adjust the Yaw to make it quite a bit more sensitive
    Adjust the pitch to make it a little more sensitive, makes it easier to look up and down
    I'm not fussed about Roll - leave it as default or reduce it if it gets in the way.

    It's very much tune to taste tbh - but the big ones for me are the yaw and pitch to make them easier, I found both too lax, making them more sensitive meant i didnt have to turn my head as much and made it easier to look up and down.

    Hope this helps
     
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  44. Tigert1966

    Tigert1966 Well-Known Member

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    I always thought Track IR was a gimmick that I could live without.

    Yet here I am watching Youtube videos and checking where I could pick one up at the weekend. Matt has got me quite interested in it for TSW and I've also just started playing Euro Truck Sim and Microsoft Flight Sim.

    I'm slowly caving in.
     
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  45. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    I got Euro truck but haven't played it for months but if we are still waiting for RH then i'll test it on there when it arrives, lol. I thought RD and TrackIR were gimmicks but together they look fun to play TSW2 with.
     
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  46. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    I've been running Open Track and SmoothTrack (android app) together and I have to say after getting used to it its fun. In TS2021 its kind of rubbish, but in TSW it is fairly nice - less of an afterthought I think. It makes being in the cab more immersive - much more than I thought it would.
     
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  47. Drakoz

    Drakoz Active Member

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    Ya, once you get used to it, you won't go back. When TrackIR came into common usage in flight sims 20 years ago it transformed the genre over night. Most people transition to understanding how to use it quickly, and as you get more experience it gets easier, and you'll even find that re-adjusting the tracking profiles makes it better as you learn how to keep unwanted head movement to a minimum. You can reduce the amount of "center notch" in your profiles without feeling like your head is out of control, and this makes it feel more natural.

    Also, it is highly recommended to have an obvious key set to recenter the TrackIR (I think the default is F11 or F12?), and recenter often. I have a button on my HOTAS throttle and recenter every few minutes almost subconsciously, which helps me keep things consistent. But with smaller center notches in your profile, this becomes less important.
     
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  48. PBrogaard

    PBrogaard Active Member

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    I am rather curious as to how the external cameras will be controlled with TrackIR. Can’t wait to play with TrackIR but using keyboard and mouse when outside is I think what I would prefer. However I have no idea whether TrackIR can be set as input for the first person camera only or if it is perhaps something that the player can set in settings?
     
  49. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    There are no settings for it at all, it just works. I found it worked both in the cab and when out of the chair walking around. It doesn't work in the external cameras. This might be early days, there may be plans for other features.

    Paul
     
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  50. PBrogaard

    PBrogaard Active Member

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    Thanks Paul. That is how I hoped it to work.
     
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