You may remember a couple a weeks back, I posted a thread called 'What routes, currently not in TSW2, would make great 'Rush Hour' style routes?' and in that thread, I talked about a bunch of routes that I feel would fit the 'Rush Hour' mould of the three routes coming out over the next few weeks. These routes ranged from routes already in TS Classic to routes that feature among the most suggested routes out there. The thread also came with a poll where you could vote for which of those routes you would most like to see in TSW2 and I promised at the time that the routes with the most votes would get their own thread where I would go into more detail about that route. Well here we are, just over three weeks later and after a very successful response with lots of people voting in that poll (seriously, that thread might be my favourite thing I have ever put up on this forum, so much so that I might do another at a later date, maybe after all three 'Rush Hour' routes come out) I am going to live up to what I promised a talk about one of those routes in more depth. How I am going to do this is that I am going to start by doing individual threads on the three most voted on routes that featured in that thread/poll. After that, who knows what will happen, but I might end up doing all of the routes that featured on that thread, but that will depend on how popular they were in the poll. By the way, if you want to check out that thread in particular and vote in the poll if you haven't already, go check it out by clicking the link here. So without further ado, lets get into this by talking about one of the most voted on routes on that poll, South London Network, a vast network of lines heading out of London Victoria, Blackfriars, Cannon Street and Bridge down towards East/West Croydon, Beckenhem Junction, Bromley South, Crystal Palace and the branch to Hayes. …But first, a reminder of what I said last time. What he said in that post The Route Itself Now I will admit, when I first wrote that section of the thread, I was struggling to come up with an idea of what this route would look like in TSW2 and I'm pretty sure you had the same issue. Besides, this is more than just a route, it is network that has the potential to cover so many railway lines coming in and out of South London. So after I saw that this route got the most votes out of any route I suggested in that thread, I when into Google My Maps and created a map of what I think this route would look like. I'm sure most of you have you're own ideas of what this route would be like, but this is what I had in mind for this route. Map of the Whole Route Section around London Victoria, Battersea Park, Clapham Junction, Brixton, Loughborough Junction and Elephant & Castle Section around East/West Croydon, Selhurst, Norwood Junction, Bromley South and Hayes Section around Crystal Palace, Beckenham Junction and Catford/Catford Bridge Section around London Bridge, London Blackfriars, London Cannon Street, Surrey Quays & New Cross Keys: Black Line=Route Blue Dots=Stations Green Dots=Depots So quite a big route eh? Just to go over some facts, the total length of the route you can see here is 77.7 Miles (125.03 Km), The route also has a total of 66 stations and 5 main depots (Selhurst Maintenance Depot, Stewarts Lane Depot, Victoria Carriage Holding Sidings, New Cross Gate Depot and Streatham Hill Depot). Now the first thing you probably will notice about the map I've just shown you is that this route would be quite a lot bigger than the route currently available in TS Classic. Of course you've got locations that feature in that route such as Brighton Main Line section between London Victoria and East/South/West Croydon, London Bridge as well as the network of lines going in and out of Crystal Palace, but this route also features a section to the east feature places such as Lewisham, Catford & Catford Bridge, Beckenham Junction, Bromley South and the line that goes to Hayes. The reason I decided to include this section in order to get more of the Southeastern services on this route. You see, if this route was adapted straight from the TS Classic version, all you would get out of the Southeastern services are services that either don't stop anywhere or start/end right in the middle of the map before driving off the map passing through a station that might have a service call there. For example, services heading out of London Victoria heading towards Dover Priory via Faversham stop at Denmark Hill on the way out, but then have to drive past three stations on the way out of the map (Peckham Rye, Nunhead & Crofton Park) so by extending the route a few miles out to these destinations would get a little bit more out of those services and give them a more reasonable place to start/end, rather than right in the middle of the map. However, one area that I have been rather hesitant to this route is the section heading towards Charing Cross, Blackfriars and Cannon Street. The only part I have included is the section up to and around London Blackfriars as well as Cannon Street. The addition of Blackfriars was insipired by the recent adaptation of Chatham Main Line which had Blackfriars included, and I'm sure there are some ideas that we could use that station for, even if the route doesn't come with a Thameslink loco. As for Cannon Street, it's a case of we might as well including, considering it's located just down the River Thames and connects with the line leading into London Bridge. Plus, it also means you get the full Hayes branch service as this is where services heading there originate form. As for leaving Charing Cross out, I felt like it would have really added much to the route anyways, as most of the services coming from there would have just travelled along the top portion of route between there and Lewisham with the only exception being peak time services that serve the Hayes branch. Maybe this is one of those areas that has all the trackage done for it, but is left out of the final route. I leave that for you to decide on that one. So, enough talking about the route, time for some pictures. Pictures of the route in real-life So for this section, I'm not going to include any images of the Brighton Main Line section as we are already getting that with the upcoming route, but what I will focus on is the locations that would be new with this route. London Bridge Crystal Palace Beckenham Junction Bromley South Loughborough Junction West Croydon Hayes Catford/Catford Bridge Brixton Tulse Hill New Cross Lewisham One thing I would also like to mention here is that while the TS Classic route was set before London Bridge got renovated, the TSW2 version would be set either during or after London Bridge got renovated in order to bring it closer to what it looks like today. Available Locos Now for the big one, the locos that would be available with this route. This route would come with a total for 3 locos. 1 of which is new the other two are reused, including one that comes in three different variants. But well will get more into what those variants are when we get there. Southern BR Class 455/8 what would be the main star loco of this route, these were built between 1982-84 to replace the ageing slam door stock which age from as far back as the 1940s. This particular variant of the 455 total at 74, of which, 46 remain in service with Southern, with the other 28 operating with South Western Railway. The version that would come with this route was refurbished between 2004 and 2006 which made some drastic changes to the unit such as installing 3+2 high-back seating as seen in the Class 377, new headlights and the removal of the gangway doors to order to install a drivers air-conditioning unit. These units would operate the grand majority of the metro services in and around this route such as between London Victoria to West Croydon via Streatham Common (Then on towards Sutton & Epsom Downs), London Bridge to East Croydon via Sydenham (On it's way to Coulsdon Town), London Bridge to East Croydon via Peckham Rye (Towards Caterham) and self-contained services between London Bridge and Beckenham Junction via Peckham Rye. Southeastern BR Class 465/2/9 So this route would come with two variants of this unit. The 465/9 we have already right now and the 465/2 which is similar to the 465/9 in which it was built by the same manufacturer (Metro-Cammell), has the same electrical equipment and traction motors (Both built by GEC-Alsthom) and both feature the same bogies (SRP BP62/BT52). The main differences is that the 465/9 was basically a 465/2 that was refurbished to work on outer-suburban routes alongside the 375s whereas the 465/2 is mainly designed for inner-suburban routes around London. On this route, they would do a variety of things, from services out of London Victoria to Bromley South (on either Chatham Main Line services or services down to Orpington), simple services out of either London Bridge or Cannon Street down to Lewisham or even being the unit that serves the Hayes branch starting at either Cannon Street or London Bridge. They would also go up to Blackfriars at peak times on services to Beckenham Junction or those that go down the Chatham Main Line BR Class 377 I know I can here the groans about this unit being included again, and admittedly, I did try to see if I could get away with this being included as just being layered from the routes we already have, but after seeing London Commuter, I felt like this was needed just for the sake of having the content needed to make up all of the other services on this route that are not operated by either loco we have covered already. Now while this route would come with the 377/1/4 from London Commuter, but that's not what I want to cover here, becuase I also vision this route coming with two other variants of this unit, both of which are new to TSW2 Southeastern BR Class 377/5 The first variant is actually the former Thameslink units that were transfered over to Southeastern to boost the existing 375 fleet. This unit is also equipt with an overhead pantograph, which wouldn't be needed here, but would be operable if you wanted to go and use it on a route that had overhead lines. Here though, they would mostly operate the more main line stuff, running out of London Victoria towards Bromley South on services down either the Chatham Main or the Maidstone Line. Southern BR Class 377/6/7 The other variant is the Southern 5 car variant. These are also visually similar to the 387's we already have in terms of the rims around the windows. On this route, the main service they would operate is the one between London Bridge and East Croydon, bound for Caterham/Tattenham Corner, as well as small services between London Victoria and Clapham Junction tha service the routes down to Dorking & Horsham. Plus, thanks to the 377/7 variant having an overhead pantograph, this would make it perfect from services running between East Croydon and Clapham Junction that are bound for Milton Keynes. Locos from other routes already available in TSW2 As well as the two locos I have just mentioned, this route would also come with a large amount of additional services coming from many other routes within TSW2. Some of those locos that would add additional services would include: Gatwick Express BR Class 387/2 (From London Commuter): This would add AI Gatwick Express that would run between London Victoria and East/South Croydon without stopping anywhere else, as well as adding some extra Southern service that they running during the evening peak. Southeastern BR Class 375/9 (From Southeastern High Speed): This would simply sub into the existing 377/5 services already available, as well as adding some extra AI traffic around London Bridge from Southeastern services that are solely operated by the 375 Freight Services (Using the Class 66's and wagons from both Great Western Express & East Coastway): Yes, there are freight services that run on this route, and they would simply just be running up the Brighton Main Line portion as well. There are also a few the originate from Lewisham, including one that would start at Lewisham and make it's way to East Croydon via Clapham Junction, making for quite a service as the service navigates the network while trying to stay out of the way of the main passenger services. Future Loco Add-Ons Even with all the locos I have just mentioned, this route also has a lot of loco add-on potential. I'm sure there are plenty of locos that could be added to this route long after this route would have been released, but for me, one stands out from them all. Southeastern BR Class 376 For me, this loco is long overdue to come to either TS Classic or even TSW2 to an extent, mainly because we don't have a route that has this run in it yet, but I feel like this route would be the prefect place to finally introduce this loco to this game, whether that would be TS Classic or TSW2. This loco is higher-density version of the 375s already available in the game and would also form the basis of the 378s running on the Overground today. The main services these would operate on this route would be on the line to Hayes, but would also operate the small section between London Bridge/Cannon Street and Lewisham. Overground Add-Ons On the subject of London Overground, you may have noticed earlier that I also included Surrey Quays as part of the map of this route. This is actually a future proofing measure as come the day that Overground services would be added, they would all start out of that station in order to give them a decent place to start rather than already out on the main route. Starting here, these services would operate out towards New Cross, Crystal Palace, West Croydon and Clapham Junction and sometimes on a limited basis, Battersea Park. These services would also make use of New Cross Gate Depot that would feature with this route, but not have any services using it at release. The loco that would operate these services would be the Class 378 which would either come as an independent loco add-on, or if there is a Overground route in the future that includes this loco (North London Line), it would also add Overground services to this route. Thameslink Add-Ons Now I get the feeling that we are probably going to get a Thameslink add-on for Brighton Main Line sometime in the future, but regardless of whether it would be for that route or here, it would add Thameslink services to this route, and there would be a ton of them here. All services would start out of London Blackfriars and make their way to either East Croydon (then down the Brighton Main Line), Streatham (then on towards Sutton) and Bromley South (towards either Orpington or Sevenoaks). There are a couple of options for locos on this one. These services could be done with either the Class 319, the Class 377/5, the Class 387/1 or the Class 700, the very later of which being my preferred option as it is the main loco that runs on this route nowadays. Conclusion Like I said at the beginning, this war one of the most voted on routes out of any route that featured in that poll I did about which of those 'Rush Hour' style routes you would most like to see out of those I talked about in that thread and just from looking what this route has the potential to offer, it's easy to understand why. This route would essentially be an entire network of lines coming out of two of London busiest stations. It would also a huge variety of locos, both with the route and also from other routes within TSW2, including one new loco which we haven't seen in this game yet and the potential for many more via future loco add-ons. But probably the biggest selling point of this route would be the fact that this is the route that probably best fits the 'Rush Hour' mould of the upcoming routes as it would a large variety of services all spread across a vast network of lines coming in a out of two landmark stations with a large diversity of locos running on this route, all helping to create what could be the largest, busiest and most diverse timetable in all of TSW2. If you think there's something that you would like to see out of this route or you feel like there's something that could be done differently about this route, feel free to post you're thoughts in the replies below. That's all from me and I'll see you all for the next route. Image Sources: https://www.dezeen.com/2018/08/09/l...grimshaw-arcadis-ws-engineering-architecture/ https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Crystal_Palace_railway_station_(4).jpg http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~owend/interests/rail/stnpages/beckenhamjunction.html https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bromley_South_railway_station https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loughborough_Junction_railway_station http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~owend/interests/rail/stnpages/westcroydon.html https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/2442661 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catford_railway_station https://anonw.com/2015/11/26/an-opportunity-at-catford/dscn4470-3/ https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/4249423 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulse_Hill_railway_station https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:New_Cross_station_mainline_platform_B_look_north.JPG https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewisham_station https://www.flickr.com/photos/24772733@N05/5863434336 https://docbrown.info/docspics/ArchiveSteam/lococlass465.htm https://www.flickr.com/photos/50576141@N03/49655245767 https://www.flickr.com/photos/jmupton2000/16866647900 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_376 https://www.picfair.com/pics/08664605-class-378-london-overground https://pixels.com/featured/class-7...ckfriars-station-london-mark-summerfield.html
Definitely want this route as I used to get the train from Peckham Rye and Nunhead all the time when I was younger. Only problem might be with famous scenery at London Bridge and Victoria along the Thames, especially because of Xbox One and PS4 not being able to have the Shard and Wembley in the distance on the Bakerloo Line. But after seeing a similar style route with Cathcart, I really want the South London Network. There is also potential for DLCs similar to Diesel Legends, with the Class 415/416 in NSE livery
That's not a potential roadblock for this route, if it were they wouldn't be being added back soon. It was just a console issue.
It's only that it might make it not seem like you're in central London on Old Gen consoles. Lots of custom builds for important buildings as well. If they were to spend more time on it than normal routes and charge more, I would definitely buy it.
I like this suggestion - the similar route on TS2021 is one of the best. I love a network of routes, and this provides real density and variety of services. It also has one key advantage is that, if it only comes with two trains, e.g. a 455 and a 700, these can strengthen the timetables on other routes (Coastway, London to Brighton, Southeastern) and the stock from those routes can appear on this. When this happens - as with the German routes - there's so much extra value.
Excellent idea and one feature of Class 376 is that it's a train made in the late 1990s to mid-2000s to lack an ac unit. Therefore a window must be opended
I would love to see this route in tsw but 64 stations and 5 main depots is a bit of a stretch for dovetail they can just about cope with creating rush hour that’s the reason most of the routes were shortened, but if dovetail did decide to do this route then I’d definitely be buying but I would say they should charge extra because this would be such a mammoth task for them.
i can see this, akthough personally i would like a southern london route set in NES or Late BR the 455 definitely caught me into this
The loop that runs from Victoria to London Bridge, as already modelled in Train Simulator, would be good. I think that's the most interesting part. I actually lived near Clock House station once and commuted on the Hayes to Charing Cross line and it's not very interesting south of Lewisham. Bromley South to Victoria is another story, especially the Catford route. I'm also hoping DTG get around to re-doing the Chatham route that included that stretch of line in TSW2.
Oh... Hey there... Been a while since I've been here right? But I have good reason to come back here I think as I just finished off making some changes to the suggestion in the light of London Commuter's release and from new ideas that have come into my head. So of these include. Removed South Croydon from the route map (Didn't think it would actually add that much to the route other than just another place to go to, as most trains just skip that station entirely). Added the section up to London Blackfriars (Inspired the by the recent TS Classic adaptation of Chatham Main Line that featured Blackfriars) and added Cannon Street while in the area. Added the Class 377 as one of the available locos (needed to make up all of the additional traffic on this route, but I do have a few surprises regarding that loco, as you will see). Rearranged the additional layers section, including adding what freight might be like on this route. This is just on top of generally adding more detail to various points of the suggestion like explain more about what the various locos would be doing servicewise on this route.
I love the suggestion. I used to play the South London Network on Train Simulator Classic, and when I would approach London Bridge, the game would always crash. If they do remake it for TSW2, I hope they iron out the cause of that sudden wave of lag. Furthermore, this route would make better use of the Class 465 which is currently limited in its use on the Southeastern Highspeed route unless used on 'off the rails' mode.
Would be brilliant, just the variety of rolling stock and stations would be nigh-on impossible to recreate in TSW. Love the Hayes line, been on that many a time on trips to London
