Which Action Points Are Best To Sacrifice To Get A Gold Medal?

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by shhweeet#4292, Aug 5, 2021.

  1. shhweeet#4292

    shhweeet#4292 Well-Known Member

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    Obviously it’s a balance but I’ve been playing the London Underground recently and discovered that breaking the speed limits in order to get you back on track with regards to keeping to time pays huge dividends rather than religiously sticking to all the speed limits and being late everywhere. Since I discovered this I’ve been quite successful in getting gold medals on the London Underground time tables. I don’t seem to have the same success on SEHS though?

    This got me thinking. What is roughly the best routes to sacrifice speed limit action points for keeping to time action points? Are keeping to time action points more valuable than speed limit action points or station stopping accuracy action points? In other words what’s the best balance / strategy with regards to sacrificing whatever to gain elsewhere and which routes are more suitable for which method?
     
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  2. Mattty May

    Mattty May Guest

    Speeding is naughty.
     
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  3. shhweeet#4292

    shhweeet#4292 Well-Known Member

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    True! But it’s extremely good fun and on the London Underground at least seems to pay huge dividends. ;)
     
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  4. AGoodJudge2

    AGoodJudge2 Active Member

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    Keeping to the speed limit = 30 points, and you lose all of them if you're significantly over the limit. Stopping within 2 metres of the marker at a station stop = 500 points. So stopping accurately is much more important than obeying the speed limit if you have to choose between them.
     
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  5. shhweeet#4292

    shhweeet#4292 Well-Known Member

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    So the best balance would be to stick to the speed limits if your on time but if you fall behind slightly break the speed limit into the yellow to try and catch up and get at least 15 AP but if you fall behind by a significant amount break the speed limits into the red and sacrifice all speeding AP in order to gain on the station stopping accuracy and keeping to time accuracy?

    The London Underground seems ideal for that strategy but I’m not so sure about other routes?
     
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  6. Mattty May

    Mattty May Guest

    When the Bakerloo update comes out, the way the speed limits take effect in the tunnels will change so the front of the train effects the speed change not the rear. Hopefully this will make staying to time a little easier. You can also close your doors a little earlier than the timer suggests so you can get back on track that way.
     
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  7. grob-e

    grob-e Well-Known Member

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    Well, I guess, it depends on number of station stops in relation to route length. On Bakerloo you have 25 stations, so you can get up to 24.500 AP for the correct on time stops. But as the route is only 23,5 km long, you will get far less AP for stickig to the speed limit. I don't know the exakt amount, but to simplify let's say every 500m you get the AP für not speeding. So, on Bakerloo line you can get up to 47 times 30 AP, which would be in total 1.410 AP for not speeding. That will be far less than ten percent than you get from the stops.

    On LGV Mediterranee you have three stops on 97 km. In my simplyfied example that means 2.500 AP for stops and 5.820 AP (97*2*30) for not speeding. So on LGV you can get more than twice as much AP for not speeding as for stopping accurate on time.
     
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  8. shhweeet#4292

    shhweeet#4292 Well-Known Member

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    I’ve often wondered why the speed limit isn’t recognised by the front of a train rather than the rear on other routes as well. Surely it makes sense for a speed limit to be recognised via the front? How does it work in real life? Are speed limits recognised by the rear on the majority of trains and if so why is this?
     
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  9. Nick Y

    Nick Y Well-Known Member

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    Irl the speed limit on lines does change once the back of the train has passed the speed marker.
     
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  10. Mattty May

    Mattty May Guest

    In real life on the majority of routes, the entire train has to be within the higher speed section before the previous speed limit can be exceeded. On the London Underground it’s the front of the train. Once outside the tunnels on Bakerloo, the rear of the train comes into effect again.
     
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  11. shhweeet#4292

    shhweeet#4292 Well-Known Member

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    So it comes down to basic maths with regards to the number of station stops on a route verses the actual length of the route. The longer the route the more important speeding action points are.

    Good explanation. So players really need to know the length of a particular route and how many actual stations are on it.
     
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  12. Dave Mel

    Dave Mel Well-Known Member

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    to me action points are a waste of time as you can not do anything with them, same as levelling up of the routes and trains a waste of time.
    if you could do something with them for instance save them up to buy something or upgrade something then that will be ok
     
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  13. shhweeet#4292

    shhweeet#4292 Well-Known Member

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    Yep I agree with you they don’t really l have much use in general but if you like getting gold medals like I do then you need to learn how to accumulate them the best way during a run.
     
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  14. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    You have to remember train length...

    If the speed limit is going from 45 to 60 this would also effect freights and many of these will be much longer than any passenger consist, and it's not until the last axle has passed the reason for the reduction that speed should be increased.
    On the LUL lines the trains are all the same length (bar engineer trains) so it's reasonable to say "put the speed limit board where the reason for the speed limit is passed AND the length of a standard train", so then drivers can use the front of the train as the speed reference.
    Because they can't do this on National Rail lines they always have to say the back of the train, but part of route learning and train learning would be how to determine where the point is that you've passed the speed board AND the length of your current train and can therefore speed up to the new line speed.
    Some locos have train length buttons which will beep when the length of the train has passed since the button was pressed, alerting the driver that the rear has passed that point

    In actuality speed limits on roads in the UK SHOULD apply to the whole of the vehicle also, but not many people abide by this and I've never seen if enforced
     
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  15. shhweeet#4292

    shhweeet#4292 Well-Known Member

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    So why would the London Underground trains be allowed to read from the front in the tunnels but revert back to the rear when out of them? Is it because out of the tunnels National Rail line rules have to apply even to London Underground trains?

    With regards to the beep telling a driver when the rear of his / her train has passed the change of speed limit point, is this button present and able to be activated on any of the trains currently in TSW2? If no then DTG should be adding this feature because to me it seems quite important to have.
     
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  16. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    Generally on most routes you don’t need to sacrifice points anywhere to get gold medals. Sticking to the speed limit and stopping accurately even if you are a bit late will still result in a gold medal. If you are on time, being a little off with stopping points won’t affect it too much either. Breaking the speed limit is where you lose most points, especially where there are fewer stops, so the best way to a gold is to stick to the speed limits. If you get so far behind schedule that you need to speed to get the gold (on routes where that might work) then you don’t deserve a gold and you must try better next time ;)
     
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  17. Nick Y

    Nick Y Well-Known Member

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    I was taught in my driving lessons many years ago to blip the throttle just before the limit change sign.

    Yes, when on the overground sections normal rail rules apply but in the tunnels they don't.
    I think the class 66 has the function in the computer interface (similar to how you apply low speed running) to bleep once it has passed the board but you have to input the train length but I'm not aware of standard passenger/commuter trains having them installed.
     
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  18. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Yep, the LUL lines have their own speed limits and speed boards (white background, black numbers, thin black circle outline) and the National Rail lines have their own ones too (white background, thicker black numbers, thicker red circle outline)

    There's a section of NR route used on the District Line as well which has the same "issue"

    With regards to train length, as Nick Y says at least one version of the 66 has this feature
     
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  19. shhweeet#4292

    shhweeet#4292 Well-Known Member

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    :D

    To be fair though sometimes you get behind on some routes right from the start because of the time it take to switch a train on to be able to go via sticky hard to find sliders etc and actually setting it up correctly as is the case with the British Rail class 101.

    Sometimes it feels like your starting a run with one hand already tied behind your back.
     
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  20. TinTin_57

    TinTin_57 Well-Known Member

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    I voted in the survey quite highly for a career mode and more rewards for levelling up. I use trophies as my guide for what I do on a route or loco but once they are complete then I’m a bit lost. Probably why I get so upset on here when trophies don’t work….or in the case of Rivet, are plain missing

    Medals to me are pretty pointless apart from counting towards the core game trophy for 100 gold
     
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  21. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    On this specific point... remember that only the FINISH counts, where you are half way through might feed into that but it's where you end up that matters
     
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  22. shhweeet#4292

    shhweeet#4292 Well-Known Member

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    Doesn’t it annoy you though when you’ve finished a run you only get a bronze or a silver?

    I’m the opposite I’d rather get gold medals than trophy’s simply because it’s feels like I’d be a good train driver in real life which I’m probably not because as Stujoy said you shouldn’t speed to get a gold in the greater scheme of things. As for those mastery challenges I’ve no idea what they are or how they work tbh?
     
  23. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Don't forget in real life ( at least in the UK) there is slack built into the timetable which allows for things like adverse signals, engineering works and so on, so it depends on whether the scenario or timetable author has done similarly, or even if it works that way in game at all!
    I remember at one point people were querying the SEHS timetable because the section between Ebbsfleet and Strood was almost impossible to keep to time to using the 395, and it turned out the game had worked the timetable out using the power levels of the HS section, rather than the 3rd rail section (where the available power is much lower)
     
  24. shhweeet#4292

    shhweeet#4292 Well-Known Member

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    That’s true but I prefer accuracy. I mean If I only qualify for a bronze medal or less on a run then that’s fine because I obviously didn’t do well enough, but if I qualify for a bronze or nothing at all because of a clear disadvantage at the start that I’m unable to make up legally ie not speeding because not enough time is given to set a train up or even start up the thing then that to me isn’t an accurate reflection on how I’ve done. This is one major flaw with TSW2 that I have and is something DTG needs to sort out pretty sharpish. I’m surprised more people aren’t annoyed by this tbh?

    The time for a run to start should be from when you are actually fully prepared to go surely.
     
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  25. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    What I mean was even if you reach station 3 of 10 two minutes late that doesn't mean you'l reach station 10 of 10 late. If you're getting bronze for various reasons and the main one is you're slowed down and not from your driving like a pensioner then yep, I'd be complaining with you
     
  26. Mattty May

    Mattty May Guest

    I thought the timetables were supposed to be true to life, no wonder some routes are difficult to keep to time too.
     
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  27. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    I think they TRY to make them as true to life as they can, but that's within the flexibility of the dispatcher version used on the route in question (which Matt said there multiple on the timetable stream)
     
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  28. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    On passenger runs, the scoring system is heavily biased towards accurate stops, and loading passengers on time. 500 points each, that's a thousand per stop. The best thing you can do for yourself, even running late, is to bullseye the stop marker. Note also that the points penalty for lateness is not all that heavy just for being a minute or two behind. In other words, you hurt more than help yourself by rushing a stop and halting well short or well past.

    (Also, missing 15 points here and there by speeding a little is often a lesser penalty than being late is).

    No time to set up: spawn in on foot a few minutes before service start- that way you have time to get ready.
     
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  29. shhweeet#4292

    shhweeet#4292 Well-Known Member

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    One example of a run that really annoys me is one on ECW. I can’t remember the name of ithe service at the moment but it’s the one where your held at a red light near to the start so another train gets the right of way into the station. It puts you behind for about 2 or 3 mins. Now I’ve completed this run several times and done a couple of them absolutely perfect with regards to speed limits closing the doors on time etc. The best I can get on it is a silver medal. It appears that time delay is impossible to make up for a gold medal unless I speed a bit around Lewes which I haven’t actually tried doing yet.
     
  30. bones.n.hombre

    bones.n.hombre Active Member

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    Open doors slightly before coming to a full stop, start closing the doors at around 75% of passenger yellow circle full, takes a little practice.

    I (usually) always get gold and never breaks speed limits.

    I am usually behind at the first stop, due to start up, by about the tenth stop I am waiting to pull away.

    (Played on xbox if that makes a difference)

    Hope that helps.
     
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  31. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    This is true for most routes, but on some of the GWR runs it won't let you start the close door routine until the time has lapsed, and it takes a long time to open them back up again and then close them again
     
  32. erg73

    erg73 Well-Known Member

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    When opening the doors, the accuracy in stopping distance is bonus and when closing the doors, the accuracy in time is bonus. Leaving more than one minute late with respect to the scheduled time penalises a lot of points and it gets worse as minutes of delay accumulate in the respective stops.
    So, for me, what penalises more is the time, rather than the points for adequate speed. And this becomes more evident on routes with many stops.

    Another thing is that the points for obtaining medals are not adjusted to the same extent for all routes. That is to say, there are some routes where you are rewarded with a gold medal very easily, for example for 5.000 AP and doing it perfectly you get 8.000 AP and on the other hand others where you have to sweat blood to get it, for example they ask you for 5.000 AP and doing it perfectly you get 5.200 AP. So there is no unified criterion when it comes to obtaining gold medals.
     
  33. shhweeet#4292

    shhweeet#4292 Well-Known Member

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    On ECW if you close the doors before the next destination appears at the top right of the screen if memory serves me right the train won’t move no matter how much you press the throttle.
     
  34. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Normally the interlock is set to when the doors are actually closed rather than a specific time, so as long as you allow the doors to close and lock (on modern UK trains there is an interlock light (often blue)) the accellerator will then work. You can tell this if you move the accellerator to 0 and if the box stays RED in outline, you're still locked out. If it turns WHITE you can get moving
     
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  35. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    And on some trains, like the 166 (at least in-game), you can use the interlock to your advantage: set the controller to 2 while the doors are open, and the train will start moving the instant the doors lock.

    Caveats: this works sometimes with the '72 Stock on Bakerloo, but only on level platforms because the interlock affects the throttle only, it doesn't set the brakes. And it does not work on any German train, because having the doors open disengages the throttle until it is reset to 0.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2021
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  36. TinTin_57

    TinTin_57 Well-Known Member

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    not at all to be honest. In fact for quite a while you couldn’t even get medals on Koln Aachen I think it was. I’d completed many runs by the time that was fixed. Trophies are the thing common to all games. To be a good driver I’d rather test myself with PZB/LZB and be able to get end to end without an emergency stop. In fact if you can get a gold with safety systems off then I’d question the value of a gold anyway
     
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  37. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    I have long felt that the award of points, or the thresholds for medals, should vary with difficulty: running with safety systems off and full HUD just isn't remotely as hard as doing it with max realism.
     
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  38. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    When I did the playtesting prior to the release of TSW2 I suggested a system similar to that which Gran Turismo does which woudl teach you the controls of the train, some route learning etc and this would then feed into the points system as you've suggested

    Hasn't happened yet, but I would still like to see some form of "certification process" where a player could be brought up to speed on new trains, new routes and so on.
    Of course, given DTG haven't written manuals or explanations on the functions of the trains we've got I don't know how well they would do this in future.
     
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  39. philwest#7393

    philwest#7393 Member

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    Very much agree with this, route learning would attach an element of realism to each scenario, it’s what a driver would do before working over a given line.
     
  40. Hiro Protagonist

    Hiro Protagonist Well-Known Member

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    Pretty sure it's 30 seconds late (because the game rounds up to the nearest minute). And since the time difference between arriving and leaving is usually the same as the time you have to have the doors open for, if you're more than 30 seconds late arriving at the station you're almost always guaranteed a late penalty upon leaving (something to consider when coasting in very slowly to try and nail a perfect stop position).

    In short - don't waste too much time trying to get a perfect stop, because you'll lose more points from being late
     
  41. pinxtonpaws

    pinxtonpaws Guest

    I couldn't agree more with this. Honestly though, even with HUD off, unless a particular service is broken it's currently harder to get a bronze medal than it is a gold. I've done all the services on Rapid Transit (the 2nd hardest route behind Bakerloo to keep to schedule) and even though you can be anything upto 3 mins late (in snow or rain) you'll always get an average of 400+ timekeeping points per stop and that along with a relatively simple 480-500 stopping reward at each station is more than enough to guarantee a gold medal.

    The absolute best example of how the current system doesn't work is the 'part 1' shunting scenario on WSR. You can absolutely floor the CL08 from A>B (and back again) yet even though you're doing upwards of 40mph during the 5mph-25mph limits for almost the entire journey you will still get a gold medal!

    Maybe there should be a much, much harder platinum medal that takes into account stuff like using the horn when required, driving with visual aids off as well as proper utilisation of speed limits + braking curves during the journey. Half the fun of driving a route is trying to do things as accurately and correctly as possible but the current medal system doesn't give you any indication as to how well (or badly) you are doing this.
     
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  42. formulabee#1362

    formulabee#1362 Well-Known Member

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    Speeding on the lu is good, but costs u a gold medal on the WSR
     
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