Control Car For Br101

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by darkman222, Aug 22, 2021.

  1. darkman222

    darkman222 Member

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    I wonder why the BR101 does not come with a control car. Like the other german DLC. Although its an Intercity train it is very common in Germany that they have a control car. I would say about 80% - 90%.
    We are missing an essential thing here.
     
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  2. Nei4024

    Nei4024 Active Member

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    This was replied to DTG as soon as the community learned that he was coming without a cab. They said they just hadn't planned it.
    It would be great and the most fair on the part of DTG, that in a while they include the cab car (as an update) to those of us who have the BR 101.Or include it as one more little madman in a future German route for those who have it.

    I am sure that DTG has thought something about this subject, as they were criticized a lot. I am hopeful that it will arrive in the future.

    Greetings.
     
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  3. AtherianKing

    AtherianKing Well-Known Member

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    I would have to say my best bet for the control car would that it comes with a route, as I imagine a backlash should it be released as a separate add-on
     
  4. darkman222

    darkman222 Member

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    I mean in the end I dont want to complain too much, as we technically have a german Intercity now. But you will almost never see an IC train with just the same cars, they mix up with compartment cars, or even the older 1st class cars with small windows. 70 % of the IC trains have a restaurant car and 90 % have, as this thread is about: A control car. To me that just feels like a lazy DLC, sorry DTG.
     
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  5. matinakbary

    matinakbary Well-Known Member

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    I mean it's a beginning. This does not mean we'll never get more IC coaches. In fact, when I learned one thing considering the Dostos, BR 143/BR 112, ICE 3/ICE 3M, Talent 2's, then that DTG loves to reuse 3D-Models. Why not? It can make sense. And for the IC coaches, you do not have to change the 3D modell, in many cases a change in the interior in enough. For example I think turning the Avmmz into an older version of the Abteilwagen
    3.jpg
    like an Avmz (pic) isn't thaaat much of development work. Yeah, the interior has to change. But sounds, physics, maybe even collision boxes are the same. Much time can be saved by that. They did the very same for the ICE 3 by redesigning the ICE 3M interior. And I'm not that much into english stuff, but I think we have many different MK intercity coaches in the game. Probably also just a "redesign" of the very first MK coach we had in game.
     
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  6. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    Modelling cost is a huge issue, and it explains the difference in variety between TS and TSW. I don't think we'll ever see a large variety of IC coaches, just because DTG can earn more by selling new routes with reused assets and more or less the same rolling stock. It's a shame, because in real life the variety is what makes a railway interesting (to me at least). The ability to look at a coach and go: 'Hey I know that one, don't see that too often', or to look at a train with an one-of advertisement livery and go: 'wow I'm really lucky to see that one!'. I just think it's a great feeling, and whenever I'm making a long journey by train, that is what I look for. It's a shame that the way the reality of doing business means that we will probably never get that in TSW.
     
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  7. drnicktgm#1259

    drnicktgm#1259 Well-Known Member

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    So that means, when they add it, that it will be free for those who own the Br101?
     
  8. Mr JMB

    Mr JMB Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't expect it to be released for free.

    Maybe they will put out a pack with a cab car and a buffet car which I think is also not currently included. Perhaps with a new route and we get the cab car instead of a new loco (as it takes as much work). Would need a core update to allow different DLCs to be in the same consist though which is currently not possible to do as I understand it.
     
  9. Nei4024

    Nei4024 Active Member

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    That is what I suggest and that is how I think it should be done. If it was a DTG bug, since they didn't have it programmed, they would have to give it free to those who have it.
    But everyone knows that's not going to happen, so I wouldn't mind paying a small amount of money, (€ 5-7) for the IC Cab Car.

    Either way, I just wish it would come soon

    Greetings.
     
  10. matinakbary

    matinakbary Well-Known Member

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    And that's probably the reason why we will never ever get a cab car. It's the same amount of modelling a all new loco + a coach. 5 Euros would never offset the development costs of that.

    Yeah but as explained, the modelling costs of new IC coaches wouldn't be as much as a "normal" new rolling stock add on. As I explained, the 3D-Model can be reused as DTG often did in past. And "just" modelling the interior new is a huge advantage instead of modelling interior + sounds + physics + 3D model. We'd need new art work for the seats, curtains and maybe the floor. But I'd still consider this kind of development more of a "reuse" than a "completely new". I mean, we also got different Dosto cab cars. The one with only second class and the one with first and second class. I think it's the same process: Reuse the 3D model, resign the interior. So getting new ic coaches (not talking of the cab car) doesn't seem that unlikely as it is - at least that's what i think - a very popular DLC. At least for the german players. I still hope we maybe get a BR 120 with new coaches. DTG made the 120 for TS, so that's a good pre condition.
     
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  11. Nei4024

    Nei4024 Active Member

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    it would be an abuse to pay the price of a DLC LOCO Add-On again, just to get a Cab Car that obviously would have to have been delivered with its corresponding DLC.
    I would not mind if they included it as one of the possible trains of a future German route, but here we get into another problem. NOT ALL players HAVE the BR 101. So how would it be delivered? Returning to pay the price for a dlc loco, it's over the top.
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2021
  12. matinakbary

    matinakbary Well-Known Member

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    But the BR 101 is not the only loco that could be delivered (again). The 120, 181, even the 103 (though unlikely) could be delivered with that. So it would be a sperate add on.
     
  13. HaibaraHariko

    HaibaraHariko Active Member

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    When the BR 101 was released, there was a suggestion thread about adding the cab car along with another locomotive like BR 120. Sounds reasonable to me. Just like how we got the Amtrak cab car with the switcher back in TSW2020.

    I understand that, according to the developers, making the cab car will take a lot of time and effort. But I'm really looking forward to it as it will bring a new experience. I'll wait and see if they can do anything about it.
     
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  14. SHELBY230586

    SHELBY230586 Well-Known Member

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    Many want to spend as little money as possible, which in my opinion is not good for the future of the game. I myself would have no problem spending money on a well-made driving car.
     
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  15. drnicktgm#1259

    drnicktgm#1259 Well-Known Member

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    But is it better to buy it as an only DLC? I don't think so, if it would come out with a route, than it would be much more worth
     
  16. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    This better be added because if HMA gets intercity layer there's no way to reverse them out of the station unless a DB BR363 from Riesa-Dresden to be layered on HMA as a station shunter to pull DB BR101 intercity out of Munich HBF. The real reason to why these were ordered was to speed up intercity 1 turn around at stub end HBF which are Stuttgart pre-Stuttgart 21 programme Munchen Hbf & Frankfurt Am Main Hbf. Therefore, this must be made for DB BR101 or the 2020 retired intercity Mix traffic locomotive DB BR120 if TSW 2 wanted another classic Train Sim 21 German intercity locomotive 15kv 16.7 Hz post-October 16, 1995, upgrade
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2021
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  17. SHELBY230586

    SHELBY230586 Well-Known Member

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    That with the BR101 and the intercity where the BR 363 has to come to pull the Wagons out and bring them to another track where the Locomotive has to be hooked up again at the front, I would wish for a scenario or after every misson
     
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  18. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Correct and that was the reason to why IC1 trains have a cab car is to speed up turn around times. Unlike a DB BR363 pulling out the coaches for then the DB BR101 pulls out then reposition
     
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  19. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    As I said in another thread DTG dug themselves in a hole by not adding the cab car.

    1. Just add it as another DLC for the BR101: That won't work, they have said loco DLCs already yield lower profits than routes because less people will buy a DLC for a DLC. In this case this would be a DLC for a DLC for a DLC, and it would require about the same amount of work as a normal loco so it would make little financial sense.
    2. Just add it as a free update - not going to happen
    3. Add it as an another loco DLC or stock train in a new route: and what is going to haul it? It's not powered, in order to have it active you will need to get the BR101, so you end up with a DLC for a DLC for a DLC with an added dependency. Another option would be to have it hauled by the BR182 which is unrealistic, or add it with a possible future BR120, in that case you would end up with 2 relatively redundant locos (BR101 and 120) which do the same thing (haul IC) but takes twice to develop, however this is the most likely option (as it's already happened - BR155 and 185).
    4. Another likely option: The BR101 will eventually be released with another route in the far future. Like the BR363 and BRD, maybe in 1 or 2 years the next german route will include the 101 as a stock train, and that will include the cab car as well.
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2021
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  20. matinakbary

    matinakbary Well-Known Member

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    I strongly disagree with that. The 101 and 120 are totally different locos. Yeah, they "do" the same - haul IC/IR-trains. But other than that, these two locos are very different. That's as if you would say the BR 111 and BR 146 are the same as they both haul RE-trains. But as the 120 and 101, there are many many differences.
     
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  21. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    The 120 is such a unique and underrated beast. It is the ancestor of all three phase AC locos we have on the tracks nowadays. The ICE 1 and 2 power cars are a direct developement, and the 120 was really important in finding out what worked and what didn't. Those findings were then used to develop the Eurosprinter (base for the BR 152, 182, 183, 189, and the Eurorunner and used in the developement of the later Vectrons) and 12X, which is the ancestor of the Traxx locos aswell as the BR 101, though neither is a direct developement from the 12X.

    Besides that the loco also has a great importance for DB's image, with it's exterior design also being used for n-Wagen cab cars and DMUs. The loco had the difficult task of becoming DB's poster child after the legendary BR 103 had been for many years. I think that's also the reason for it being so underrated, it came inbetween the 103 and the ICE 1, two of Germany's most famous trains. It never had a unique enough exterior design to set itself apart inbetween those two trains, but it's more simple utilitarian design suits it. It's exterior doesn't reveal the power inside, and that is something I really like.

    All in all the BR 120 is a unique loco, with a lot of history and great importance in shaping locomotive technology as we know it. It would totally be a great addition to the game.
     
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  22. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    I'm sorry, I should have worded my post better. I would love the BR120 as well, and I (sort of) know how unique it is. What I meant in saying it would be redundant is that for them it wouldn't make much sense to make another IC loco, especially with the current route roaster which has fairly limited IC potential (or lack of option to retrospectively add it). I tried to address that by adding this comment: "it has already happened - BR155 and 185" and it is something I could see happening in the future. But I think if DTG were to develop another German loco it would give priority to another widely used modern electric like the Vectron which can be broadly used on most of the current german routes. But again the BR155 sets a good precedent for the BR120 and mine is all speculation anyway.

    The BR101 is underutilised already, and while it would be great to have the BR120 just for the sake of it, how unique, and influential it was, it would just be wasted effort unless it came with a more IC focused route or timetable pack for older routes.

    Apologies for not making my intent clear.
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2021
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  23. matinakbary

    matinakbary Well-Known Member

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    Ah I see, what you mean! Thanks for making that clear :)

    To make the possible 120-trainset more unique, it would need to have the cabcar and new coaches or at least the Bordbistro. Then again the question is: Is that too much development work for one train? Probably, yes. So let's see what DTG makes out of that. I think DTG clearly understood the demand for the cabcar as well as the demand for more long-distance IC/ICE trains (and fitting routes). I'm very excited about the future of TSW. I think over time, we'll have much variety.

    Another thing would be if we actually had the 120 it could be substituted for the 101. This would a least allow HRR and (soon) BDR to have more vareity. And let's see what the pres.coll.crew does with RRO. It also has a great potential for IC/ICE trains :)
     
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  24. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Good point and for the DB BR120 it's an Intercity locomotive that can do freight services for a future German route you can get DB BR120 Cab Car if HRR DB BR101 is owned then substitute DB BR120 cab car for Hauptstrecke Rhein-Ruhr DB BR101. Also DB BR120 can do freight like Hamburg-Lübeck DB BR112 Ruhr-Sieg Nord DB BR143
     
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  25. MAX1319

    MAX1319 Well-Known Member

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    Was going to create a thread about the Cab car for the 101 and saw this thread. Wanted to bring this up foward, I believe as so many that this is a must for German routes.
    upload_2023-8-28_15-30-44.png upload_2023-8-28_15-31-12.png
    upload_2023-8-28_15-31-51.png
     
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  26. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Spot on and in train simulator classic selected routes do have the use of the cab car possibly RSN TSC RSN IC34 runs
     
  27. west coastway trains

    west coastway trains Well-Known Member

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    Maybe they could make a cab car dlc at some point
     
  28. erwin72618

    erwin72618 Member

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    Absolutely necessary, no matter how it's implemented. Whether paired with another locomotive or as a standalone (imo). It's a shame it wasn't created at release of the BR 101 DLC ):
     
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  29. AtherianKing

    AtherianKing Well-Known Member

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    I would suspect it may most likely come with a route, that route would also probably have to include the 101. Kinda how they did with the ACS cab car and the ACS on Trenton.
     
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  30. Greyweasel

    Greyweasel Well-Known Member

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    If we're talking IC Steuerwagen, I'd take the Apmbzf 116.8;
    [​IMG]
    over the Bimdzf 271;
    [​IMG]
    Bring that to a new intercity DB route, and I'm sold.
    [​IMG]
    That route could be a chunk of the Munchen-Nurnberg-Express, Munich Hbf - Ingolstadt Hbf (50mi) perhaps?
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2023
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  31. AtherianKing

    AtherianKing Well-Known Member

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    would be great to see both, but I think I’m a 271 fan more.
     
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  32. erwin72618

    erwin72618 Member

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    I would take all 3 xD
     
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  33. Jo_Kim

    Jo_Kim Well-Known Member

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    The 116 is part of the Ex-Metropolitan coaches. These are completely different from the classic IC coaches so you couldn't use the cab car with the existing IC coaches in the game. These coaches were used in ICE services, mostly between the Ruhr-Area and Berlin and were decommissioned in December 2021.
    With the introduction of the new Skoda trains on the MNX, these coaches were moved to the newly opened SFS Wendlingen-Ulm and run the IRE 200 there. So depending in which era the route would be set, you couldn't find these on there anymore.
     
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  34. Greyweasel

    Greyweasel Well-Known Member

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    No duh they're different, we see that in the pics. Well in that case the dream is both, set before 2021, on their respective routes.
     

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