The new night lighting in the Dresden route has taken away all the ambient light at night under all conditions. It’s just black now. I have tried different times of year and different amounts of cloud and different times of night and it is all just jet black. That is not how night is all of the time and it’s hardly ever black in a built up area. This new lighting is much worse than the old. It used to be the case that at different times of night there would be differing amounts of ambient light and a fairly good amount of natural ambient light could be achieved, simulating the light conditions of a cloudy night or moonlight. It was also possible to set the weather and season to get most night services in very dark conditions (on most routes) if you preferred. In the two periods of the day where the daytime ambient light and nighttime ambient light were crossing over it was often totally black. This flexibility has been taken away. Granted there were routes that were always too bright but most were generally fine, and on a practical level being able to see too much is always better than not being able to see at all. Now that is the only choice, it’s either totally black or totally black. That is not an improvement. It limits choice. I also noticed that you can see the stars through the clouds. I got a setting where the clouds could be seen in the sky but no amount of ambient light shone on the ground or trains at all. When I set the sky to full cloud cover, the clouds could not be seen but the stars could near the horizon. This is going to make driving at night impossible for me I’m afraid. If this lighting scheme was used on Clinchfield everyone would be saying the same. There needs to be some ambient light, preferably an amount chosen by the player. Everyone could be happy then. Unnatural blackout is not good for playing when you need to see things and it just doesn’t look real. In the absence of light fixtures you are totally blind. That’s not a good experience and it all looks like a forced blackout. The lighting structures on the route (as in station lights etc) are better but the coverage of the light is still in pools, just bigger pools. Some other routes were very bad though so taking the time to better place lighting elements is a good approach. The buildings having light in the windows looks good. The train headlights on most trains still won’t light everything up unless they are also changed and the forced black makes that issue worse too. An improvement I did see was that the trains don’t seem to glow in the dark but now they are all blacked out away from any of those added lighting structures, and the same goes for the track and other features of the scenery. They are black away from the direct throw of single lights. I may be the biggest critic of this new scheme but I have to say it how I see it and I don’t see any correlation between this scheme and real world lighting. It was better how it was, even if that wasn’t perfect. Perhaps something in between, and I’d definitely suggest the player being able to set a minimum for ambient light.
I totally agree with you. I wondered if it was my TV settings and ended up analysing screenshots, but it turns out it's almost 100% black, except in a few places where it decreases to 99%, EVEN IN THE HEADLIGHTS. The lightest thing is the rails at 50% overall lightness in the headlights… It's really disappointing because it actually kind of stresses me out. You can't see anything besides the lit up stations in the distance.
The actual night has to have ambient light. I like the way stations and buildings are lit up in Dresden, but night in a big city is never pitch black. Moonlight is a must have option if not a standard requirement for the darker areas.
It‘s the age old debate of how to do nights in games and I don‘t mean that in a negative way. It‘s an important discussion. This I agree with. I think the stations and especially the background scenery look a lot better now and even somewhat resemble what a night looks like. The issue is though, this is where I agree with your criticism stujoy, that there doesn‘t seem to be any moonlight or other ambient light to light up the scenery and especially the tracks a bit. Yes, real nights can be pitch black, (I live in the country where there is little light pollution) but driving in pure darkness á la NTP is simply no fun (for me). If one were to ask me, I‘d say the best course forwards would be to keep the improvements of BRD and sprinkle in a bit more moonlight and other ambient light sources. Or ideally just do this:
There is actually moonlight... but you have to be very careful with the dates because it is dependent on there actually being a moon! Unfortunately TSW only allows you to select the month and defaults the date to the 15th of each month which doesn't always entirely play nicely with moon cycle (and the position of the moon in the sky is also important for the time it rises and sets as well).
So if that true that's pretty cool, but now I have to find a quick guide for the moon cycles to figure out which month to select so I get the right amount of ambient light? Like I said cool, but seems tedious
I played one service that the moon was in horizon and for me the night is too dark...It feels like is "forcefull dark"...the lighting is better but i could go with less pitch black night...
There wasn’t any moonlight in any of the months I selected, the ones where there are the most night services, and that doesn’t account for other sources of ambient light (reflected light from clouds, reflected light from surfaces near to light sources, diffused light). If the moonlight is the only source of ambient light available it should not be so difficult to accidentally stumble upon it. Away from the ways the game produces the light I’m not sure anyone could look at how dark things are now and think it is an improvement on how it used to be. The kind of darkness there is now was present in the previous system before the night ambient light came in and that was easy to avoid just with the right month selected. The ambient light at night has been about right in more recent routes, sometimes not enough and sometimes a little too much because it gets brighter during the night and reduces again ready for the day. The player had the choice of how much ambient light they needed for enjoyment in most cases by setting the season. The improvements elsewhere with all the artificial light sources and scenery items lit up in the distance have been marred by this one issue of ambient light to the point for me where I’m not going to experience them that often because I’ll be driving in the day on this route. Driving at night is just not enjoyable in total darkness and that’s all there is now.
I completely agree. Yesterday I made a trip at night and I noticed that the illuminated areas are much better than before, but that the unlit areas are too dark. On nights like the one I chose to drive on, summer and completely clear, there should be some ambient light. Since this is the first time that night lighting has been implemented in TSW, I hope that on successive routes where it is also used, they will adjust it better and better.
I completely agree with the points here. The lighting is fantastic (well, when the route works anyway...) It's wonderful to be able to see parts of the scenery all lit up, but the pitch black on the tracks in front is unbearable for me. Even the reflective signs aren't much use for me as the headlights aren't great. I know the headlights are meant for you to be seen rather than lighting the way, but surely they would light more up than they do. To be honest the only time I've felt even remotely comfortable doing a night time run is with the F40PH-3C on Boston, as the headlights actually light the track up ahead of you, and the in cab signaling means that I don't need to worry about seeing trackside signage
I Don't agree with the OP. Nights are not always pitch black in BRD. Some ambient light is evident in the most recent live stream from 1 hour 30 ish onwards: I cant stand the blue light and inappropriately bright blue buildings we currently have. Nights should be dark in areas where no light sources are, this is true to life. Having fired a locomotive at night, you can't see anything and have to rely on good route knowledge. As stated headlights are not meant to light up the track in front of you. I agree that for gameplay reasons complete darkness is not always fun or appropriate and this should be alieved by good light sources which is what takes the development time to implement. I therefore hope these improvements are taken onboard and used/tweaked in the future. P.s If its to dark just turn up your screen brightness
There doesn’t appear to be ambient light landing on the ground in that run. The trains may have some of that glowing thing going on that they have always done at some times of night though. The train being driven has good headlights (unlike mist trains) which do light up a lot of the track in front which is good. The sky is quite light, and you can see the issue with stars shining through the clouds but I think the ambient light is still non-existent and that can be seen away from the headlight’s glow in that video and is my experience in the game. I’ll keep looking though. The video commentary shows that the general opinion is that this lighting is the bees knees and is probably going to be carried forward. I obviously don’t think so because I’ve not been able to find any settings that give any moonlight or ambient light yet on a run and I much prefer being able to see things than not see them and it doesn’t look natural. The old lighting didn’t look natural either but it didn’t make it impossible to play for me. I’m part of a minority but I feel it’s important to make my points clearly and loudly right now. DTG said they want the feedback and I have a strong opinion on ambient light and what looks better for playing for me. I’ll continue to try and find a way to get some ambient light on night runs. I’ll probably need to go through all the months and all weather types and see at what times night can be made a little lighter if possible, and if I find some ambient light I’ll post here how I did it for those who also think the blackness has gone too far.
Careful with that as it depends on the loco. The 143 and 363 only have marker lights, yes. But the 146, 766, 185 and 442 all have proper headlights that are very much intended to light up the track.
You love to moan don’t you … Personally I think the new night lighting is great . I’m sure lots of people would agree . It makes TSW2 more realistic than ever before , I would like to see this lighting implemented on future routes
Yes I do. On this occasion I am having a big moan because I don’t think the black is natural and an attempt to make an improvement has gone too far and made it too dark. Lots of other people disagree with me on that and prior to the change some of them were moaning that it wasn’t black enough. Or it could be that all of this is constructive feedback and worth taking the time to express what you do and don’t like and the reasons why you do or don’t like it. I’m happy for you that you are happy with it and agree with others that like it too but I don’t. DTG asked for feedback and it is probably more important for people who think something isn’t good to let them know why than it is for people to all say they like it or keep quiet.
I do get the main point that the dark areas could be too dark, though personally from videos I have seen from the driver´s position, rather than the windscreen of the loco, it is very dark when there are no other light sources, and the driver isn´t generally seeing the tracks ahead of them lit up brightly, though that may entirely depend on the position of the camera in-game. I always feel like I am sat too low in the 442 especially, in which you can see nothing of the tracks in front of you, but from outside it is clear the headlights are working quite well. I do think it is disingenuous to bring up Clinchfield as a hypothetical though, because when asked Matt has always said this scheme was bespoke to Riesa-Dresden. Bespoke implies it would clearly be an entirely different decision-making process on Clinchfield. This has never been presented as a lighting system to apply to all routes equally, only in the minds of the community is it or could it be that, which like most things, is wishful thinking. To be honest, up until Cathcart I never had any big issues with night time driving, and even in the case of Cathcart I am fairly sure despite the debate being about night time lighting, that it boiled down to light sources simply not being implemented on many of the stations, and so is a bug more than a specific design choice. But we´ll see what happens when it eventually gets around to the preservation crew. As far as I can see from Riesa-Dresden, the reflective signage is more visible from a distance, no issues there, the artificial lighting in game looks good, perhaps a bit too consistently orange, not all stations implement the same lighting I am sure, but actually this is offset by how atmospheric the route feels because of it. And on this point I feel like Matt´s assertion that lighting is as much an artistic decision-making process as anything else, is correct. The route, to me, feels good to experience at night because the color palette and the transition of passing through areas of light into darkness does make me feel I am well and truly driving at night.
We should definitely have the option to toggle the moon on and off. The route looks much better when moonlit.
Along with people saying how much they like this, there are already people saying they want it in other routes and that this ‘system’ is better. The lighting has always been route by route but if the nighttime cycle is adopted as a standard then that will automatically change the ambient light everywhere. If this stays as just this route then that’s fine but I see it more as an experiment to see if it should be implemented in more future routes and if all the feedback is positive then that may happen. Even in existing routes where the lighting is far too bright at night I would hope that they don’t go back and alter the day night cycle as an attempt to improve them and that includes Cathcart, where the only issue is the light fittings being too dark and badly implemented, as you say. I never had an issue with driving at night other than when nothing was visible and that is where it becomes an issue on routes where more light is needed, hence my reference to Clinchfield. My biggest gripe is that there seems to be no easy way to set the months and weather to get anything other than blackout here, whereas before it was fairly easy to obtain different levels of darkness with just seasons and weather presets.
I find the night lighting leaves station area too dark to walk around, so that definitely needs a little ambient lighting. But... I'm rather taken by the lighting whilst driving and find it rather compelling and realistic. Out of town the silhouettes of trees being passed through the side windows with glimpses of town light in the distance, and the way overhead pylons and signs loom up feel just like a country night drive in a car does (headlight strength accepting) I think it's a brave and well implemented attempt to revamp night lighting with the higher contrast that a driver would experience. Is it perfect, no it isn't. But it is a good experience that feels real to me.
Agreed . Whilst it will be years before tsw2 is at the level that some games are , for example rocket league . However dtg are moving in the right direction , let’s see what we get with BML
In my opinion, it's still a really big upgrade, especially in urban areas, somethings - including this - probably could be a little better, but overall it's a massive improvement in my eyes.
I love the new lighting but the contrast is too deep. World of Darkness Still, this is probably the first route where you don't have to search for stations with a motion detector at night. SPG has a bit better global ambient lighting, but it's probably a bit too bright there. In my opinion: an improvement. Atmospheric. I like it.
Comparing it with real life experience this route comes closest to reality compared to other routes, real close
This is my experience also. I wish someone could explain to me why this one locomotive has effective headlights and most of the others in the game have the lighting power of my first birthday cake.
I know British trains do not have real headlights, so I fear we are going to be plunged back into impenetrable darkness in most of London to Brighton, unless they incorporate the unnatural orange glow of the Dresden route. Whatever happened to the night lighting standard of Sand Patch Grade. Did DTG lose the paperwork?
