Rivet - Get Your House In Order

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by LucasLCC, Sep 28, 2021.

  1. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    61 Class 150 services feels about right if I am honest, hopefully the HST from GWE will add an extra layer for more variety.

    What shocks me is that theyve gone to the trouble of creating a seacow and turbot for 6 services. It seems a lot of hard work for very little gameplay.

    They could have created the Mk3 sleeper & motorail wagon (which would have been far less work then the Seacow and Turbot) and then used used the MK2 open from NTP and created the sleeper service for better variety with the same number of services with a Class 47!!
    1. Inbound sleeper to Penzance,
    2. Shunting motorail cars to motorail terminal
    3. Shunting sleeper to layover siding
    Then reverse in the evening.

    This would also have added value as it could have provided extra layers onto the GWE as well!!
     
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  2. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    I'd be extremely surprised if it does, given it's from a completely different era.

    They made bespoke wagons for Arosa and didn't even use them in the timetable, so this isn't too surprising IMO.

    From what Matt has said previously, coaches can be just as much work as locomotives due to how interactive they are - wagons less so.
     
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  3. LucasLCC

    LucasLCC Well-Known Member

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    If it was 61 services on the mainline including ECS moves then I'd agree that it's plenty.

    But if the branch is half hourly, then that's already 60 moves plus. If the branch is hourly then you're looking at 30 moves. That doesn't give much skope for mainline moves, ECS moves etc. And this is presuming a 15 hour service on the branch which is shorter than reality.

    Rivet seem to be very good at creating content, and then not making much content for them. Arosa and the 204 are exactly the same.

    There's no point in having decent wagons if we can't do a decent amount with them.
     
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  4. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    Given that the Mk3 base coach is already in the game, I wouldnt think a sleeper would be as much work as a whole new wagon, afterall the ends and underbody for a MK3 isnt that different between a sleeper and a open (and unless youre a rivet counter (no pun intended) then most wouldnt be too upset if they didnt model the differences providing the windows and internal layout was changed.
     
  5. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    The branch summer timetable is 28 services each direction (even pre covid) and without knowing the precise year looking back into my timetables back in the 90s was less.

    Out of the 24 main line services each way only 8 would be in the hands of a Class 150 so the maximum number of services would be 72 per day. Then you have a depot move at the start of end of each service so probably another 10-20 max (sorry Im not an expert on ECS workings in Penzance so I am guessing at this number). 61 out say 80-90 isnt that far off.

    The problem isnt the number of Class 150 services, the problem is the lack of a 2nd mainline trainset being included so give us at least some of the 32 missing main line services.
     
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  6. Mattty May

    Mattty May Guest

    61 services is frankly piss poor, when BML has the amount it has. Though if that’s realistic, it’s realistic.
     
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  7. Bradley

    Bradley Well-Known Member

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    61 services....... and a 37 we already have is £25 worth it..... nope
     
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  8. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Everyone is hung up on the number of services, it seems. BML has 1,400 driveable apparently, this one has 61 (driveable?). But a lot depends on variety. How many of those BML services are unique? And most are with one train. So, you may end up driving from London to Brighton 500 times (eventually in your sleep). This route, however, may have lots of unique trips, for all we know. Plus it has freight runs! I'll take a dozen different journeys over a hundred runs from A to B any time.
     
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  9. doublefine7

    doublefine7 Well-Known Member

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    You get 6! freight runs. Wow, what a number. 6. I am really sorry but that doesnt sound like we get a varied timetable here.
     
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  10. LucasLCC

    LucasLCC Well-Known Member

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    That's between 25-50% off. That's a huge percentage.

    I do agree, variety is the spice of life. However with Arosa no variety was demonstrated (the freight wagon didn't even make an appearance!).

    The fact there's only six freight runs means shunting etc is unlikely, meaning they won't offer much variety.

    As we have no High Speed services, the stoppers will do just that and stop at all stations nearly every time.
     
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  11. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    To be fair, the real-life express services stop at most stations on the line anyway.
     
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  12. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    Also the fact there's no shunting loco ;)
     
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  13. matinakbary

    matinakbary Well-Known Member

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    How should a small 3rd party studio develop even another loco and give it away like it's for free? If anyone expects quality, another shunting loco in addition to what will be delivered would be a very bad idea. So route and/or the other trains wouldn't be half as good as their state now. And (at least speaking of scenery) their quality standards are already not exemly high. But that's for the moment the only way a small studio can survive - by trying so stay on the green economic path. Of coure rivet could (and maybe should) try to up their standards. But this could also break their necks, especially when people always just buy at sales.

    Costumers want quality - me too. But even when quality is delivered and many people only buy at sales, that company will at some point not be able to get enough profit to balance the loss made with sales. Which means on the next product the quality is probably even lower because there is less money to balance the development costs. And then: less quality --> less costumers --> less quality etc. etc. etc.
    At the end neither the development studio nor the costumers are happy. And the studio is probably bankrupt at some point. So maybe we should demand more quality - yes. But at the same time we should keep our expectations realistically and maybe be a little bit forgiving when a house or a tree is missplaced, as long as there are no game breaking bugs like Arosa had one. Which was fixed, btw. Yeah the timetable is still pretty weird and the passenger coaches really sound aweful. The distant scenery isn't even worth mentioning. But all in all the DLC was okay. Not the best. But still had some hours of fun with the loco.
     
  14. LucasLCC

    LucasLCC Well-Known Member

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    Like with the 37 (which at best will have a new livery), including a 08 wouldn't actually require any developing as they'll be using existing stock.
     
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  15. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    Who said that they had to develop/include a shunter? If they wanted to do one, at most they'd just need to reskin an already existing one.
     
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  16. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    You kind of left the route, and stations, and signalling (and timetable and scenarios...) out of your calculations there...
    Trains aren't the only things people need to build to have a railway
     
  17. matinakbary

    matinakbary Well-Known Member

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    But to be correctly: The shunters are from DTG. Yeah, the 37 as well. But just because Rivet is allowed to use the 37 it doesn't mean they can just use any other loco from DTG. But of course they could have built a layer for the 08.
     
  18. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    DTG probably wouldn't mind that considering both Cane Creek loco are clearly based on the DTG counterparts.
     
  19. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    At a stretch they could have utilised the Class 47 and Mark 2 coaches from NTP to add in loco hauled Cross Country services, even if left in blue/grey to avoid issues with Virgin licencing, depending on the exact era.
     
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  20. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    Given that this is set in BR days V/C set wouldnt fit in. A BR Blue would be a little early.

    I think this is half of the problem with this route. Theyve set in in late BR days so the content from NTP doesnt fit and neither does the content from GWE timewise.They seem to have dug themselves a hole unless they know something we dont and that DTG or an other Third Party producer has something in the pipeline which would fit perfectly within the timescale, which I guess is always a distinct possiblity
     
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  21. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    I agree. With GWE I have always said they should of done it before or after the electrification not during it as they are now stuck in that Era which was one of the complaints/excuses with the diesel legends.
     
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  22. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    It really depends how much licence they are prepared to take. I would be quite happy to accept B/G as a representation for Cross Country services, makes more sense than the 37/5 "freight" which by and large wouldn't be seen west of Burngullow. The oil tanks to Penzance would more than likely be hauled by a 47 as would any engineering trains, again depending on precise era and EWS taking over the infra jobs.
     
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  23. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    On the subject of the timetable for Cornwall, here's the 1992 timetable:
    upload_2021-10-9_12-53-9.png 20211009_123235.jpg 20211009_123155.jpg
    Services marked "IC" are intercity and would be either a HST or 47 and air con mk2s. Without either, 61 services sounds about right.
    Stops with an x in them (eg 12x13 means that stop is a request stop, and the train departs at, in this case, 12:13). Times in italics are connecting trains.
     
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