PC West Cornwall Local: Penzance - St. Austell & St Ives - The Definitive Feedback Thread

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by chieflongshin, Oct 15, 2021.

  1. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    The same purists who are going nuts on this thread about hotels and missing 'grunts' would have absolutely butchered Rivet for something like that! A reskinned 2017 Type 43, with the wrong cab, and any number of exterior and seating-arrangement infelicities? The howling would have been like a pack of wolves!

    The overwhelming message from the 187 fiasco has been "do it right, or don't do it at all."
     
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  2. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Well we will have to agree to disagree on the point. Perhaps DTG should have put feelers out or even polled potential customers. Can only hope a suitably retroed HST is in the pipeline as a DLC - along with the Night Riviera sleeper consist and/or a 155 or 158.
     
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  3. Mr JMB

    Mr JMB Well-Known Member

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    A HST loco pack with a variety of liveries and genuine period pieces: sounds, visuals etc would sell very, very well. Absolutely it must be right, there would be a lot of people ready to pick holes in it, but imagine if it was done as well as the DB Br101...

    If there is any news on whether, post-RH, loco packs can work independently of their associated routes then the first deliberately made route-independent loco pack should be the HST. Would be great to play on most UK routes.
     
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  4. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    Incidentally there is a Valenta I believe which could potentially be used as reference material. Nice interesting video too.

     
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  5. fakenham

    fakenham Well-Known Member

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    Nice looking route, looking forward to it!

    I noticed a potential signalling issue however. My knowledge of semaphore signalling isn't great but I noticed a clear (green) distant signal on approach to a station (42:27 onwards in the stream). The first semaphore after the distant was clear but the second (starter signal at platform) wasn't. It only cleared when the time was ready to depart. I thought with this type of signalling that if the distant was clear then all other signals relating to that should be clear also? I could be wrong though.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2021
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  6. dbrunner#4864

    dbrunner#4864 Well-Known Member

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    That HST has a MTU engine and not a Valenta

    From my knowledge 41001 is the only Valenta HST powercar left in working order and its being handled by the 125 Group

    A cab ride from the 41001 below, (turn the volume up :X)


    I found this while i was working a while ago and while listening to it it really brought some tears of joy in my eyes. What an engine huh?
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2021
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  7. Northerner

    Northerner Well-Known Member

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    I was quite impressed with the preview stream, the models of the 150 and 37 are great and clearly a lot of effort has been put into the stations.

    I do hope the signalling is on the list of fixes so that you don't have to shut the doors for the signal to turn green. The timetable also didn't seem to give much set-up time and the precise stopping times at stations were a bit odd. Being a bit finicky, I did notice a large amount of the route lacked boundary fences or walls which should line the whole route.
     
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  8. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Correct. All associated signals through to the last section signal of that particular box must be clear to pull the distant off.
     
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  9. bescot

    bescot Well-Known Member

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    The semaphores on Transpennine do the same thing: Distant off - home off - section on..

    Ridiculous.

    I wish someone in DTG would address these dangerous inaccuracies. How long has TSW been out, and these UK signal issues still persist - there's plenty of us who can help if you want to listen.
     
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  10. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    All they have to do is play PC Rail or one of the SIAM actual signalling games e.g. Yarnton Junction, to get an understanding of how the signalling works. That said, they have been making rail simulation long enough it should be basic knowledge!

    Edit:
    PC Rail Bridgnorth and Seaton Junction can be downloaded for free, they wouldn't even have to pay!
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2021
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  11. malakhit

    malakhit Member

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    Am I correct in thinking that the 37/5 included in this is completely separate from the one included in TVL? If so; why? This feels like the ECW/GWE Class 66 all over again - you end up with 2 different representations of the same thing, and one tends to be inherently better than the other. They're not really going to go ahead and do it again... are they?
     
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  12. alexjjones6024

    alexjjones6024 Well-Known Member

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    Which 66 was better do you think? Lol
     
  13. alexjjones6024

    alexjjones6024 Well-Known Member

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    Can somebody listen to the cathcart circle class 314 and listen to the brake release as I feel that the sounds would be apt for the class 150 and sound better than the ones currently applied to it on the stream?
     
  14. malakhit

    malakhit Member

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    I don't own both (yet, only just got into TSW2), but from what I've read, the ECW one is the better one to have - it's got a more complete EM2000. I've heard that the performance varies between the two of them, as do the sounds. It makes absolutely no sense to me, and the logical thing to do would surely be to pick one and replace the other with that one.
     
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  15. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    The GWE/ECW 66 is by no means the only example.

    Whenever a train is "recycled" for a new route, it'll be, even if they do nothing else with it, a different version to the one included previously. It's happened with the Class 101, the 66 as you mentioned, now the 37, the 52, the 08, the 377, the BR 185.2, the Dosto CabCar to name to just a few. This is not just TSW - I can name at least 7 different versions of the Class 37 in TS1 (this game's predecessor).

    The only solution I can think of being the trains be included in the core game that get updated when needed*, and purchasing a DLC gives you the route and unlocks the appropriate trains.
    *Given DTG's hesitency to go back and change major things like physics on trains unless in an emergency (ECW 377), for fear of breaking things, trains will rarely, if ever, get updated therefore.

    The GWE 66 was good for the time. In the East Coastway preview, Matt mentioned that they managed to get blueprints and technical drawings for the 66 for GWE... only to later find out they only applied to 66001. They therefore had to change the physics based on new research, and took the opportunity to expand the EM2000 (I think they added slow speed control?).
     
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  16. malakhit

    malakhit Member

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    What a curious design decision. This bizarre siloing of content must make DTG's lives much more difficult, especially when stuff needs fixing; no idea why it's the decision they went with. I concur with you - it'd be much simpler if they simply made one copy of each train and then included a licence for said train in the relevant DLC packs. This would also make it simpler to have more varied AI traffic on each route. Still, hindsight is always 20/20, and I've enjoyed the ~12 or so hours I've put into the game so far.
     
  17. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    Well it does allow them to upgrade an existing model without potentially breaking existing content - I can only imagine the angry threads if they took, say, the GWE 166, put it in another route with different physics, and that meant the GWE timetable would be impossible to complete.

    And to be fair to Rivet, there have been cosmetic changes made to the 37, i.e. it's the version with the plated headcode box, not the flush fronted one in Tees Valley. I'd love for it to substitute with the 37 on Tees Valley, but highly doubt it given what they said on stream.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2021
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  18. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    I'm assuming you don't have much interaction with five year olds. I have a few friends with kids that age, and I've got to tell you, their grasp of complex 3D modelling and modern game design is simply not what you'd expect. It's like the schools don't teach them anything these days!
    :D
     
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  19. Ben_Broomfield

    Ben_Broomfield Well-Known Member

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    Agreed! Signalling is a big part of the simulation as a whole and one key area that should be right from the start.

    I think another issue that drove me crazy was seeing the immersion breaking ‘close doors on a red’ dispatch process back, which then clears the starting signal!
     
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  20. bescot

    bescot Well-Known Member

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    Good god, no. I thought that nonsense ended already with the RH routes. I guess the how to instructions were never passed onto to Rivet.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2021
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  21. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    You still get it on the Bakerloo Line. I was trying out the (flawed) 1938 stock last night and several stations the signal only cleared after closing the doors, aka after dispatch.
     
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  22. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    I seriously doubt the people at DTG don't know how signals work on the railway, but that's not the same as being able to program them into the game so they interact with the rolling stock, track and various safety systems without logjamming everything (which is seen on the BML in various forms)

    Sometimes I wonder if they try to make things too complex rather than much simpler, because although signalling is a complex beast overall there are ways to break it down depending on what they have in the background telling the signalling what the priorities are
    From what Matt has said on stream the only priority they have at the moment is the service code which is obviously less than ideal when it comes to "deciding" which express service goes first in any given situation

    But as has been said previously, the major issue they have is they don't want to break what they have now by making sweeping changes, even if that sweeping change makes things work so much better. Its a fine balance to have to achieve, especially with the shedload of DLC they now have
     
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  23. alexjjones6024

    alexjjones6024 Well-Known Member

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  24. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Can’t really agree with this. It might be possible to get away with lax signalling practice in Transport Tycoon, but if you’re marketing a product that bills itself as a serious simulation then you need to get it right. Would be akin to the ATC in Flight Sim ignoring other traffic while vectoring you.
     
  25. fakenham

    fakenham Well-Known Member

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    Well, regarding the signalling issues it would be nice to hear DTG's thoughts on this + the approach control issue on BML, GWE etc.

    I've a feeling the next UK route is probably in progress (not on the roadmap though?), so the signalling may have already been completed using the current functionality - so any changes would be a lot of extra work. I hope not, but DTG seem to be very quiet regarding these signalling issues for UK routes.

    They surely are aware of these issues, as a few people have posted that they have been in this line of work for a good while now (I even vaguely remember that one of the manuals (GWE?) explained approach control in great detail) - so maybe the issue is that it's too difficult to code in, or it interferes badly with the service mode.
     
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  26. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Which part don't you agree with? At no point did I say what DTG do is OK
    And I don't know how the ATC AI in flightsim manages two planes coming into the same flightline at the same time with the same next hop, but if they've solved that then that's something DTG could be trying to find out
     
  27. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    :)
     
  28. alexjjones6024

    alexjjones6024 Well-Known Member

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    Use the class 375 off SEHS, (The station after rainham where it turns to 4 tracks). I can't seem to understand why the class 375 stopping service gets the priority over a Class 395 (on the fast line) when it comes to signals because that seems highly inaccurate..
     
  29. Warspite

    Warspite Well-Known Member

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    I was impressed with the changes they have made to the look of the class 37 but I do have an issue with the livery. I don't know whether the loco number is changeable but the one featured in the stream, 37699, was a Cardiff Canton base loco allocated to the Railfreight (Coal) sector. For Spring 1990, it is correctly in the original Railfreight all-over grey (no red solebar stripe). However, by Summer 1991, it had been repainted in the new triple grey Railfreight Coal sub-sector livery. I don't know in which year of the "early 1990s" Rivet has set the route, but the livery will be wrong for anything later than 1990 itself. All that apart, a class 37 in Cornwall is more likely to be a Laira based loco and in the early 1990s, would be one from the number range 37669 to 37675. By 1990, none of these were in the original all-over Railfreight grey: four had the red solebar stripe and the other three were in the new triple grey Railfreight sub-sector livery. By Summer 1991, only 37672 (named 'Freight Transport Association' had the original grey livery with red solebar stripe; all the others had the sub-sector livery. I'm not sure why Rivet have chosen 37699 unless they painted the model first in all-over grey and then tried to find a number to fit.
     
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  30. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Probably out of a hat... Very few people would know these things in that much detail, especially people who've never been to Cornwall let alone looked into the specific dates of when certain locos were painted what colour from which depot
     
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  31. Warspite

    Warspite Well-Known Member

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    I just like things to be right ...
     
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  32. Rob39

    Rob39 Well-Known Member

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    If I buy it, I’ll be submitting repaints Warspite don't worry.
     
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  33. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Rob, serious question... How easy is it to repaint a loco in TSW? Reason I ask is that in TS1 DTG only ever supply all their locos in 1 livery and it seems that DTG and their 3rd party providers in TSW are carrying on this tradition, but one of the things people like about AP in TS1 is that they tend to give you umpteen liveries in every pack so you can almost create the entire history of each class from that one pack.
    If it's even a fairly simple process I do wonder why there aren't enhancement or livery packs available for TSW even at a nominal fee...
     
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  34. Rob39

    Rob39 Well-Known Member

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    Traditional reskins are quite tricky in UE editor depending on how the loco is set up, could be impossible to get accurate decals due to mirroring aspects. Im pretty sure someone will provide a ue reskin in dutch engineers livery as that should be straight forward.
    As for livery designer. Can be as accurate as you like, just a case of how patient you are.
    I agree regarding the development side there should be more liveries offered. I wonder if randomised loco numbers are an issue. Not wanting the number to contradict the livery.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2021
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  35. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    OK, thanks for the answer
     
  36. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    Also am I correct in thinking that traditional reskins replace the original, so you still only have 1 livery, it's just a different one?
     
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  37. Tank621

    Tank621 Well-Known Member

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    I think for a generic livery red strip would have made a little more sense, the full grey feels a little more 80s than 90s. If we only get a single generic livery for each loco it would be quite nice if we could 'overwrite' the livery for a particular number so we can replace the livery for a particular locomotive with its authentic period livery.


    Ah that might explain why the non-livery editor or so-called 'legacy' skins often don't have any logos or markings, I've been wondering about that for a while.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2021
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  38. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Correct. Livery Designer liveries by contrast are randomized. (Note that these are shareable, on PC; not officially supported, but there is a freeware app which works very well).
     
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  39. Rob39

    Rob39 Well-Known Member

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    Exactly.
     
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  40. Rob39

    Rob39 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, so if you want to eliminate the old RF grey, I suspect there will be more recent legacy skin mod coming out pretty sharpish. Plus the livery designer submissions should provide a bit of variety.
     
  41. mattdsoares

    mattdsoares Well-Known Member

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    Initial thoughts are that it looks...fine. Unfortunately Rivet, whose weakness in TSW and Unreal is scenery, keep making routes where the main draw is the scenery and sweeping views. They just seem unable to execute on it in TSW. Certainly an improvement over the disaster that was Arosa, but it looks like we're still not getting Rivet's 'A' game. If they either don't know how to, or the current game doesn't allow them to do good open scenery, then I'd rather see them stick to less landscape dependent routes where the rolling stock is more of the focus, which they do well.
     
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  42. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    What might be ideal is a joint venture where Rivet do the loco and Skyhook the landscape.
     
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  43. rpeterbroughlowe

    rpeterbroughlowe Active Member

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    The signal being pulled off when the guard gave the right of at each station way was just... cringe.
     
  44. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    Rivet can also do great close-up scenery, like parts of the Isle of Wight line are really, really beautiful, and with this new Cornwall route they seem to have found a pretty good balance. What I really dislike however, is the way they do their textures. Everything is too clean, no weathering, just repeating textures.
     
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  45. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    I concur with this. There was a few stations that when the external camera was on the platforms looked like a bit like this but all grey. The squares were offset more but visibly repetitive 7BCB2FFA-5552-47D4-BCD8-1F5AB035B3F5.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2021
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  46. jacobfiremanz

    jacobfiremanz Member

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    Does anyone know what the price would.be for this route? I'm stuck between £19.99 and £24.99. I think maybe the latter but I'm not sure.
     
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  47. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    Likely £24.99
     
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  48. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Pretty sure all routes are 25 quid, except on sale.
     
  49. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    Isle of Wight and West Somerset are £19.99.
     
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  50. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    You get 20% off as there is things missing :D:D
     
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