Something Just Occurred To Me Regarding The Recent Route Announcements...

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by WonterRail, Oct 20, 2021.

  1. WonterRail

    WonterRail Well-Known Member

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    Now yesterday, you probably saw on the roadmap that the next German route has now been announced in the form of Tharandter Rampe: Dresden - Chemnitz, which will include the DB BR 612 (The first German DMU and first tilting train in TSW2) and the DB BR 143. This, along with the two US freight routes announced last month (Sherman Hill & Horseshoe Curve, the later of which developed by Skyhook Games), means that we are starting to get a picture of what the next couple of months will look like in TSW2.

    But I specifically wanted to talk about the two DTG routes in particular, Sherman Hill and Tharandter Rampe. Now I kinda had this thought when the former was first revealed, but after the reveal of the later yesterday and when researching into these routes a bit more, something occurred to me about both of these routes...

    ...is it just me, or are these routes just a potential foreshadowing for the arrival of steam in TSW2?

    Now you might think I'm going insane here, but let me explain. You might already know that steam is in development for TSW2, which is stated to be a long term project for DTG. However, when looking into these two routes, I think there are signs that point towards these routes maybe getting steam locomotives at some point in the future. Allow me to dive into these routes and show you why.

    Now DTG hasn't stated where Sherman Hill will run too and from, but would presume it would run between Cheyenne and Laramie, as that was what the TS Classic ran between. Now the Cheyenne end of the route is home to an enormous freight yard, but it is also home to Union Pacific's steam shops which houses their steam locomotives 844, Challenger 3985 and more noticeably in recent years, Big Boy 4014.
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    These locos are nowadays used on excursion trains across the US. So it could be in future that these locos come as loco add-ons that add excursion trains to this route, or maybe we get a steam-era pack for this route, which adds steam locos of these types and a separate timetable set during the days of steam on this route.

    Now looking at the newly announced Tharandter Rampe, there are several big clues that may point towards steam coming to this route one day. Now for those familiar with the narrow-gauge line at Radebeul Ost on Riesa-Dresden, this new route has two of them. One is an abandoned one Freital-Potschappel that used to go to Nossan, but the other, at Freital-Hainsberg, is still operating to this day as part of the Weißeritz Valley Railway, although I expect these to be like the one on Riesa-Dresden, in which it is fully modelled, but nothing is actually running on it.

    But the bigger sign that points towards steam maybe coming to this route is that it has two steam railway museums located at either end of the route, the first one is located at Dresden-Altstadt on the approach to Dresden Hbf, which was just out of reach on Riesa-Dresden.
    [​IMG]
    The other is the Saxon Railway Museum, located on the outskirts of Chemnitz at Hilbersdorf. This museum is a lot bigger and also has a lot of other smaller lines located around this place.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Now both museums are home to a lot of standard gauge steam locomotives that are sometimes used on excursion trips around this part of Germany, so it could be that steam locos get added to this route that add these services, similar to what I've just talked about with Sherman Hill, that run up and down this route and too and from the two museums located along this route, and there would be a ton of locos to chose from. Maybe these locos could add similar excursion trains to Riesa-Dresden or any of the current German Routes have in TSW2, who knows?

    But, at the end of the day, this is just speculation and could ultimately turn to absolutely nothing, but I do find it fascinating that potentially, the first steam locomotives to come to TSW2 could be loco add-ons for these newly announced routes.

    Just something to keep in your mind...

    Image Sources
     
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  2. Cramnor

    Cramnor Well-Known Member

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    Very interesting thoughts :D From the discussions about steam yesterday it did sound however more like they will come with their own route, but who knows, maybe the first steam engine will be an "experimental" loco DLC for one of these routes :)
     
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  3. Winzarten

    Winzarten Well-Known Member

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    I really doubt that one of their first loco would be Big Boy, one of the most complex steam machine ever produced, nor will it be, most likely, the last generation of high speed express steam locomotives. These are the pinnacles of steam engines and are the endgame when it comes to modelling steam engines.

    The first engines will most likely be some simpler workhorse pre-ww2 locomotives
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2021
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  4. joerg.lange

    joerg.lange Well-Known Member

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    Honestly... I've had thoughts like that too... steam would fit well with both routes. Maybe in a more medium term time frame.
     
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  5. orb

    orb Well-Known Member

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    I think the routes you mention would rather get updates by the preservation crew some time after steam release to support the steam locos (like making water towers functional, adding some coal depots), than be a good indication that steam is coming the next. It's like you could also say the release of West Somerset yet for the 1st edition of TSW was a good sign that steam would be coming very soon or there would be a steam loco add-on released for it next.

    Each time steam is mentioned on live streams, it's also being said that it will come with historic routes, so it will be rather 3 routes, just like rush hour and then steam infrastructure updates ported by preservation crew to some of the existing routes, where you may expect to see steam locos at the times these routes are set.
     
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  6. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    I suspect it is just coincidence. Also none of the recent released or announced UK routes are particularly suited to steam traction.
     
  7. fabristunt

    fabristunt Well-Known Member

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    I like where this is going. We might get steam locos here in the form of railtour as on British DLCs.
     
  8. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    I was suspecting it a bit aswell. The Tharandter Rampe has had some great steam excursions on it. I included a space in the timetable for future railtours in my wishlist for that reason.

    I suspected a short museum line to be honest, but something like this where at least speeds above 40 km/h can be reached sounds very promising!
     
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  9. facundo.dim

    facundo.dim Active Member

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    The Flying Scotsman at London Victoria thinks otherwise.
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2021
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  10. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    They tend to work the VSOE when it is steam hauled and head off towards the West Country via London junctions and then the South Western line towards Ascot and Reading.

    And Flying Scotsman is boring, always maintained it was a poor choice in the original MSTS. Either a Black Five or BR Standard 5 which could operate just about anywhere. Or for something Southern and iconic, let’s have Clan Line.
     
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  11. roysto25

    roysto25 Well-Known Member

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    I would vote for a Black Five, if the sounds were accurate - that characteristic journal ring you could recognize with the eyes closed
     
  12. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    Interesting thoughts. It might be that DTG are just looking a tad further into the future.

    We know that places like Hagen Hbf are build in such a way that route mergers (once the issues of delivering them and the timetable are resolved) are rather straight-forward. Maybe they‘re taking possible steam DLCs into account in the same fashion? No plans, but leaves the door open for it?
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2021
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  13. Sheldon1000

    Sheldon1000 Well-Known Member

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    I honestly believe if they do steam it will be done first on a UK route. Not. USA or Germany.
     
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  14. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    My money is still on Fort William to Mallaig albeit set in the 80's so they can use the 37 and Mark 2's on the BR diesel services and give us a Black Five to play with. Nice relaxed timetable and would also be the most scenic route created yet for the sim, one of the best in the world.
     
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  15. davidh0501

    davidh0501 Well-Known Member

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    Almost certain the first steam will be uk based as they will have easy access to a working preserved line example.
    Getting it right will be their main concern given the cognoscenti on these forums.
     
  16. WonterRail

    WonterRail Well-Known Member

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    Oh hey there...

    Coming back to this thread because I want to share with you what this locations look like in game now that they are both out.

    I think it's fair to say that the first steam add-on will be a UK route. It was recently confirmed via the recent roadmap update and in a weeks time, we will know exactly what route it will be (being honest, I did have a hunch that the first steam add-on would be UK centred, I just had a thought that these route announcements were a potential foreshadowing of the eventual arrival of steam.

    However, with that said, I would not rule out steam potentially coming to either one of both of these route and from looking at the final products, there might be a good chance of it happen.

    But let's have a look at the locations I brought up originally and see what they look like in game.

    Sherman Hill

    Now we did nearly have a moment when I though the buildings for the UP steam shops were not going to be represented as they were nowhere to be seen in the preview stream that aired the week prior to this route coming out. But thankfully, the buildings were added before release. Unfortunately, the interiors of these buildings were not done up, but I'm just glad they are here to begin with.
    [​IMG]
    Also, the tracks leading into the roundhouse either don't go into the building and stop just outside or haven't been represented in full, which is strange, but I don't expect this would ever get used anyways, but I would be nice if the tracks did go all the way into the building just to make it a bit more complete.
    [​IMG]
    Now for some general shots around the area.
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    I also love these old coaches without bogies that have been placed here as nice details to make the area more interesting.
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    Overall, while I do think adding steam here would be difficult, it is not impossible. I'm pretty sure wouldn't be able to use these facilities unless they go updated to include an interior, but it is possible to have a steam loco doing an excursion train on this route, whether that would be with a Big Boy, UP 844, a Challenger or whatever steam loco that is chosen to do these services.

    Continues on next post...
     
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  17. WonterRail

    WonterRail Well-Known Member

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    Tharandter Rampe

    This is where this gets fun as there are so many places that steam would be welcome here. Now this route does not only represents the two narrow gauge lines located around the Dresden area, it takes it a step further than what Riesa-Dresden took it by having small carriages dotted around each area.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    These might only be scenery items, but they really add a lot of life to the area. I do hope that firstly, DTG goes back and put these on the narrow gauge line on Riesa-Dresden to help add more life to that area, but I also hope that one day, either DTG or any other third-party, takes on a makes these narrow gauge lines in full. It's nice seeing them represented here as scenery. But come on, these line in their entirety would do so well in TSW2 and would be perfect as the first German steam route in TSW2.

    But onto the railway museums located along this route, both have been represented and both have roundhouses that you can walk inside of. Starting with the one around Dresden, we have the small one here...
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
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    …and here's the big one located just further on down.
    [​IMG]
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    Unfortunately, this one forgot to put a floor in, which means the building appears to be slightly floating. But hopefully, this can be resolve soon as the building itself is actually quite nice.
    [​IMG]
    But then we come to the one near Chemnitz, also know as the Saxon Railway Museum. This one also has it's two roundhouses done up in full and you can walk inside both of them.
    [​IMG]
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    This area also has what appears to be a chute for loading the steam engines with coal.
    [​IMG]
    But then we come to my favourite thing around here, and probably one of the best hidden gems I have ever seen on any route in TSW. I mentioned to two narrow gauge lines that have been represented earlier...

    …but did I mentioned there's a third?

    It's located right down the back of this whole complex, hidden away in an area nobody would normally see.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
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    I get the feeling that steam would do really when on this route, most of the facilities have been done up in advanced for it, it would just be a case of making the locos and getting it all working here. It also doesn't just have to be rail tours services. You could just have steam locos running about these museums and also have a few locos placed in the roundhouses here to give them life. I doubt any of these locos would use actually use the turntables here as this game hasn't worked out how to use turntables in service mode yet (but maybe with steam this will change).

    To end this off, let me show you the poster collectable on this route and what it looks like.
    [​IMG]
    This could mean something, but at the same time, it could mean absolutely nothing. But even still, this does show what a great steam route this has the potential to be.
     
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  18. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    I agree with you and I am not sure if you are familiar with Deutsche reichsbahn ddr Rekolok classes like the 65.10 because this can go well with Tharandter Rampe Dresden Chemnitz. In their normal run schedules 30-40 years ago Chemnitz is written as Karl Marx Stadt if you look at a printed Deutsche Reichsbahn DDR schedule. When it comes to steam locomotives in Germany there are two types of coaches used with Steam locomotives West Germany Deutsche Bundesbahn Umbau Wagen N-Wagen and towards 1974 end of steam UIC Wagen. East Germany Rekowagen DR-Y Wagen all the way to German Reunification. Marklin model Railway catalogs tend to use German State Railways for Deutsche Reichsbahn DDR
     
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  19. Disintegration7

    Disintegration7 Well-Known Member

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    So google translates it as "scenic steam train rides"......hmmmmm
     
  20. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    Which is correct :)


    I still have my doubts regarding German steam just because we don‘t have any German vintage route yet (whereas the US has one and the UK several). But with the amount of times Matt talked about steam locos on Dresden-Chemnitz, it does seem like there may be some plans in place. Besides, as this thread called out, the selection of routes recently seems curiously focused on possible steam DLCs/layers.
     
  21. joerg.lange

    joerg.lange Well-Known Member

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    Yes, that would fit very well, you're right.

    May I ask how you are so familiar with the theme? Thats impressive. Nowadays, there is actually no one who still knows (or wants to know) anything about the DDR - especially not outside Germany.

    I know the Deutsche Reichsbahn and Karl-Marx-Stadt very well. I was born in Freiberg in 1977. ;)
     
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  22. joerg.lange

    joerg.lange Well-Known Member

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    In my opinion, there will be no vintage route in Germany. DTG will recreate the current "museum operations" on the Tharandter Rampe, e.g. in the form of the famous parallel runs up the ramp. Perhaps similar to West Somerset - a day-long recreation of a "rail festival" and you make different trips between the museums in Dresden and Chemnitz or so.
     
  23. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    Interesting idea. It didn‘t occur to me before, but a Plandampf DLC could be interesting. However, you‘d need more than one steam loco to do it properly, so a loco DLC wouldn’t do and for a Diesel Legends kind of deal, you’d need to have the locos in the game already.
     
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  24. joerg.lange

    joerg.lange Well-Known Member

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    Yes, thats a good point... then my idea doesn't seem to be so good after all.
     
  25. WonterRail

    WonterRail Well-Known Member

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    You know, this whole thing does raise an interesting question regarding the arrival of steam in TSW2.

    If this whole Spirit of Steam does turn out to be like Rush Hour in which it's a season ticket where you get three routes that are release over a period of time and we know that we are getting a UK route first, what would make up the US/German side of this?

    If we where solely looking at TS Classic routes for this (which has been the case as most TSW2 routes lately have had a TS Classic counterpart already available for years) in the case of Germany, besides the option the make the narrow gauge lines that appeared in the recent German routes in full, DTG has only ever done one German steam route for TS Classic, which was Wutachtalbahn, which focused on the heritage line between Lauchringen and Immendingen and came with a DB BR 86, so that option is available if they want to take it.

    USA is a little harder because, as far as I'm aware, DTG hasn't really a US steam route for TS Classic. Not one that springs off the mind that they could also adapt for TSW2 without having to dig deep. Most of the US steam routes available for that game have been made by third-party developers. I might be that DTG chooses one of these Third-party routes and take it on as their own, but I also have the suspicion that this might also be a completely new route that we haven't seen before in either game.

    But that's if this whole thing is done in the same season ticket style as Rush Hour which we will just have to wait and see on that.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2022
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  26. Disintegration7

    Disintegration7 Well-Known Member

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    I think Horsehoe Curve could pretty easily be modified for the steam era- outside of Altoona and Johnstown the route is very rural/wilderness similar to Sandpatch. Altoona itself would need a bit of work to add back track that has been removed over the decades (maybe Johnstown too but i've only ever been there once so can't say for sure).

    The TS version was set in the early diesel era IIRC, so they probably already have quite a bit of data there, and there's a ton of research/info available due to the curve's longtime status as a tourist destination.

    Sherman Hill and Clinchfield might be good candidates as well.
     
  27. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Wow, and I got into that stuff from History Class cold war and Model Railway magazines including Marklin English Catalogues where the Deutsche Reichsbahn DDR was written as German State Railroad (DR) followed by the German Wikipedia & MDR clips of the DDR.
     
  28. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Oh, I do. I spent my grundschule years in West Germany: my father was US military with NATO. For us the DDR and the rest of the Warsaw Pact were very scarily real things.
     
  29. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Germany will be Complex because you have two states from one country in the time of NTP 1983 and Clinchfield 1970s-1980s these are the West German Deutsche Bundesbahn and East German Deutsche Reichsbahn in English German State Railroad (DR). West Germany steam went out in 1974 with Electric Locomotives First 1xx Diesel Locomotives 2xx while East Germany used them out to 1988 or all the way to German Reunification 1990. In East Germany, Steam locomotive replacements were 1xx Diesel 2xx electric locomotives. Coaches Umbau Wagen & UIC IC Coaches West Germany followed by East Germany Rekowagen DR Y Wagen for Steam locomotives.
     
  30. joerg.lange

    joerg.lange Well-Known Member

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    We were also scared, we lived in the system. But that's why people made the peaceful revolution and got rid of the regime. ;)

    In post #22, I didn't mean the political system, but the everyday culture in the DDR, the everyday life of the people, music, art, everyday utensils. That's actually all very interesting, because the social development took a completely different direction there (one nation - two personalities).

    But to get back to the topic finally:

    One thing of which much has remained is the railway. Locomotives like the 143, 112, 155, 232, 204 are based on GDR productions or have their roots there. It's always a strange feeling when you see locomotives in everyday life that you saw as a child in 1985. The past seems like a completely different world to me, it was in fact a completely different world. Even more remarkable for me is that some of the locomotives, e.g. the 143 / 112 / 155 - at least from the outside - even seem relatively timeless and almost modern.
     
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  31. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Solid designs, too valuable to replace. Locomotives can last a long time if well-maintained- look at all the SD40s from the same era still working in the US.

    Unfortunately, all the (West) German locos from my childhood are just about all gone. Mostly Einheitselektroloks, plus the V160 and V200 diesels, and the lordly 103s (brand-new at the time), and our quaint little local 169s (my avatar pic).
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2022
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  32. joerg.lange

    joerg.lange Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I must admit, there are also some West German locomotives that I like very much. The 103 is one of them, but also all the 150s. There is a cool variant, the 162, operated by Hectorail. It looks badass with its dark paint scheme.
    I love diesels. The American ones too. Or the British ones. I think I just love all trains.
     
  33. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    I always liked the edgy (as in with a lot of corners - not the personality trait edgy) design of those DR locos. I love the round shapes of stuff like the E 18 or the West German V200, but there is what I’d call a no-nonsense attitude to the design of the DR locos which I appreciate.

    I’d love to see some 150s still in use but sadly, there remain only two in existence, both in museums. Don’t get me wrong, 151s are beautiful and lovely, but I have thing for the original Einheitseloks.

    I think that applies to most of us :D
     
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  34. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Maybe convince DTG to make Legends of the Deutsche Bundesbahn with V160 V200 103 169s 110 139 140 & 141 150. DB BR150 was on Main Spessart Bahn Aschaffenburg-Gemünden in 1954-1957 when it was Electrified. DB BR110 was used on Schnellfahrstrecke Köln-Aachen when it was Electrified in May 1966 with SNCB HLE16.
     
  35. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    Id love to see a narrow gauge steam route but my favourite German one would be the Harz and I witnessed some interesting change of locos at Drei Annan Hohne which would add variety.

    UK wise I think we'll see the North Wales line before we see the WCML as this has more scope for Summer Steam Specials and Chester to Llandudno Junction is about the right length. This is even more likely given that this route has been re-released on TS1 with Avanti and Transport for Wales liveried stock.
     
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  36. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    I agree and for WCML South Special Paint trains are Safe Travels 390 042 390 112 Pride 390 112
     
  37. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
     
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  38. joerg.lange

    joerg.lange Well-Known Member

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    Saw two of those (double traction) in front of a freight train near Berlin last summer. Looked great with its LED lights.

    Here a picture of that version:
     

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