Natalie Was Joking Right

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by SBos, Oct 21, 2021.

  1. SBos

    SBos Well-Known Member

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    In Tuesday’s Q&A stream on Tuesday evening Natalie said how Rivet Games had improved over the last year and if that’s what she thinks it is a joke.

    During this last year Rivet released the Arosa line and could not even produce an accurate timetable meaning it is impossible to run a service to time. Despite assurances from Rivet this would be rectified months down the line we are still waiting.

    Now the release of their latest route has had to be delayed presumably for major issues.

    Improvement what improvement.
     
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  2. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    • We've had numerous streams and videos from Rivet where they faced the community and answered direct questions
    • Their scenery has been acknowledged as a step forward from Arosa
    • They've started bugfixing things from Arosa and IoW
    • They're working more closely with DTG
    • That the release of West Cornwall has been delayed for whatever reason means they're not just "chucking it out"
    If you always refer to the complaints of the past you cannot allow for forward movement (which takes time and effort).
     
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  3. SBos

    SBos Well-Known Member

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    . Started fixing bugs when it has been out months.
    . Jasper from Rivet does not answer direct questions and in fact seems to be short on knowledge when he appears on the streams.
    . To release a route where the timetable is so inaccurate is nothing less than incompetence and to have to wait months and months for it to be rectified is not good enough.
    . The halted release of West Cornwall shows there are major issues whilst they thought it was ready for release.
    .You talk about complaints of the past that still have not been rectified so there has been no moving forward.
     
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  4. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Started fixing is progress from not having started
    Jasper's answered loads of direct questions. There are some he doesn't have the knowledge to answer but without the whole team I wouldn't expect this
    Again, starting to rectify is progress from not
    Agreed, but delaying rather than throwing out is a thing
    "No moving forward"... and yet you yourself just detailed at least three things which are "forward" from where they were before
     
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  5. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    They've started fixing bugs. So that's an improvement...
     
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  6. SBos

    SBos Well-Known Member

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    So months after they are aware of problems they start to rectify this you see as acceptable do you? The fact that they release routes with such glaring issues you also appear to find acceptable. To think they can release a route with such glaring issues is not acceptable. To think they release a route with such glaring and basic issues like the timetable is not acceptable. To take months to start to rectify such issues is not acceptable. To ignore posts about these issues on their own forum and not give any updates whatsoever is not acceptable.

    I don’t see much sign on any moving forward and how Natalie can say how much they have improved over the last year given we now know there are obviously major issues with their lates route and they are only just stating to look at current issues is quite frankly unbelievable.
     
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  7. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    I don't find those things acceptable, but nor do I find it acceptable that people shout about "nothing happening" whilst acknowledging that they are happening

    Not happening fast enough isn't the same as not happening at all

    I agree with you that major issues should be acknowledged and fixed quickly, and updated as soon as possible, and ignoring posts on your own forums is just... nuts.
    Hopefully they continue their recent trend of decent stream and youtube output and seeming progress in route and consist building
     
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  8. kekanha#4892

    kekanha#4892 Active Member

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    in salaries. now they earn more, for them that is an improvement. for us since the 146 engine was launched, that would have to be an improvement. Unfortunately it is worse, but now they will join with HTC, the largest joint venture of visual reality, their ego grew and they make us spend money without foundation. I wonder why what they did yesterday with "west cornwall", they didn't do with "London comuter". Matt's explanation on the stream was technical and the most of the mortals don't understand anything. Everithing seems like a scam to consumers. shame, because the game "was" good.The promotion of Matt, and the change of chairs in the company are derived from the union with HTC, and (my opinion) since they have to go public in two ways, as an individual company and as a joint venture, they want to make money so quickly as they can, and deep down it is the money (or the lack of it) that leads to all these imbalances ... Of course all these are my conclusions derived from the malfunction of the engine 146.
     

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  9. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    You realise the OP is talking about Rivet Games rather than DTG, right?
     
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  10. kekanha#4892

    kekanha#4892 Active Member

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    But natalie
    Yep, but she talk about the "game", and who is responsible for the launches ??, that's why there have improvements or not, everything depends on Dovetail.
     
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  11. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    Nobody's saying that long-standing bugs are acceptable. We're all saying that Rivet seem to be IMPROVING. Rivet have been active and engaging in recent streams, they're clearly now working more closely with DTG (Matt explicitly stated this) to try and push up quality levels. They're revisiting their original DLC to fix bugs and try to IMPROVE the quality and rebuild the trust with the community that they know they've lost.

    Much as DTG themselves have turned a corner on transparency and communication (which was virtually non-existent in the early TSW days) and have strived for better quality in all of their routes, Rivet are trying to push up the standards and build faith in the community that they can turn out well executed and good value DLC. Making presumptions about the WCL delay and ranting about things that Rivet have said they're looking to fix doesn't do anyone any favours.
     
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  12. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Natalie talks about a lot of things, she's a community manager... But this is about Rivet (and there's more than enough for one post just on them...)

    Rivet's improvement isn't really reliant on DTG, even if the content release is (because DTG do the lining up with PS and XB stores and presumably epic and steam too)
     
  13. kekanha#4892

    kekanha#4892 Active Member

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    yesterday who suspended the launch of west cornwall? So why not do that with London comutor, and why not suspend the launch of the 146 engine for the 143? rivet Games making mistakes is not the same as paying for the fixes to consumers who buy spoiled products. The responsibility for the quality of the product is dovetail. that natali refers to rivet Games to my consumer does not tell me anything. The only thing that matters to me is the final product, and that is the responsibility of Dovetail.
     
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  14. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    We don't know
    All we've been told is that it HAS been suspended, not the reasons why or who pulled the plug

    Because those decisions weren't made at the time. Because of crap testing, but that's nothing to do with Rivet as they didn't produce or release the route

    No, but nor is "No progress being made" the same as what's happening, where there is progress (however much too late)

    No question. But what's that got to do with this post, which is about the work Rivet are doing?
    I mean you could also say that no software should ever be released with any bugs ever no matter what, and bugs should always be fixed no matter what
    This would lead to an awful lot less software ever making it to market. Maybe that wouldn't be such a bad thing
     
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  15. kekanha#4892

    kekanha#4892 Active Member

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    turned a corner on transparency and communication is a fact, but excuses dont pay debes.
    what they will teach me is that we deny forgiveness, forgiveness is not requested, forgiveness is avoided. The opening is of no use to us if we have already spent our money and we do not have the product with the normal quality. but I perfectly understand your point of view and in many things I agree with you, but what I said, Dovetail is not doing well. but I think they try hard to do it. I also don't forget that all this is more work for them and that they will be overloaded with all this, the approach is a good beginning, the truth is that they are much closer now. Let's all hope that this progresses, preferably more calmly. postponing "west cornwall" gives me good prospects, makes me feel like someone is listening to us. Yes, they are not perfect, but this is the way. I stand on both sides, I also understand the pressure that I must have to bear
     
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  16. Sheldon1000

    Sheldon1000 Well-Known Member

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    It was funny after Natalie said that, the faces of Sam and Matt said it all. They knew it wouldn't go down well with a lot of the community so just kinda looked awkward and moved on. I think Natalie's comments were her own opinion which in my opinion was exaggerated. Although they have improved, I dont think they have improved as much as Natalie suggest.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2021
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  17. SBos

    SBos Well-Known Member

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    Don’t get me wrong with my thread as DTG are certainly far from perfect about the standard of game releases and the fact they admitted that their teasing leaves a lot to be desired and needs addressing.

    My point is, and I fully stand by it, Natalie stated how much Rivet had improved over the last year and this is clearly not the case. I have seen nothing at all to show this is the case and for some just to say well they are looking at it now just proves the point. Whilst DTG have some responsibility about what Rivet are releasing they are not responsible for Rivet’s customer service which is deplorable I reported the timetable issue within days of it’s release as did many others. Somebody even posted the actual timetable showing the running times between stations which highlighted how inaccurate Rivet’s was. We were told that it would be addressed and now we here, months on, they are looking at it. Further posts requesting an update were completely ignored by Rivet.
     
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  18. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    Ok, I think we're going round in circles here. If you think the fact that them now looking at fixing old problems proves the point that they're continuing to ignore those same old problems, I think it best we leave it at that. :)
     
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  19. Boris The Frog

    Boris The Frog Active Member

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    (1) If you listened to the stream it was still loaded with "should", "might" and "no promises" answers
    (2) But still not close to the likes of (example) SPG and WSR.. Both of which were pre TSW2 scenic routes
    (3) Just a coincidence that the huge wait to get those fixes has happened at a time when they have another route to sell?
    (4) Is that because they have no choice but to do so? See (5) also.
    (5) Rivet were all for "chucking it out" because they presented it for release. Sounds to me like it was DTG who said "No".

    Just offering a few alternatives out there. Feel free to disagree :)
     
  20. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    1. Still better than what we had before. If you listen to half of Matt's streams (you know the one in charge of actually getting the game made let alone one DLC) his answers are full of "should, might, no promises, I don't know, I'll have to ask" etc etc too
    2. Not relevant unless Rivet made them
    3. Possible, but also possible that it would have happened anyway. Can't be bothered to guess
    4. Maybe. We know that DTG have offered more 3rd party support lately too, with the job of 3rd party dev support havign been posted a few weeks back
     
  21. SBos

    SBos Well-Known Member

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    You are obviously not very good at understanding written English.
     
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  22. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Don't know why you would say that...

    Personally I stopped responding because of the following... "Natalie stated how much Rivet had improved over the last year and this is clearly not the case. I have seen nothing at all to show this is the case and for some just to say well they are looking at it now just proves the point"
    If they weren't looking at it before and they are looking at it now then that's progress...
    However minor, however late and however they should have been doing it before

    Standing pat and saying "Well they didn't do that before, so why should I say they're improving now...?" will end up with nobody ever being able to change, advance or have resolution of issues,
    Unless you mean that you will only see the changes when you receive patches and everything works as you expect it, which again isn't what's been stated in the post or in your comment above.

    Either way, there have been changes from what little we have seen, and if those changes are positive in whatever way, there has been some improvement
     
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  23. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    I have no problems understanding well-written English. Your rage is clearly clouding your ability to process rational logic.

    Indeed. Things with Rivet are definitely changing for the better. Improvement.
     
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  24. SBos

    SBos Well-Known Member

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    What is wrong with you people nothing has changed at Rivet. They have promised for months to fix the issues they haven’t so nothing has changed. They produce a new route ready for release evidently but that release has been stopped because of major issues so nothing has changed.

    Show me the evidence that with Rivet things are definitely changing for the better.
     
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  25. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    Is it even worth directing you back to post #2 where ARuscoe literally listed some?

    No, I didn't think so. I'm out. (Still need facepalm emoji)
     
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  26. SBos

    SBos Well-Known Member

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    There is nothing in his post that changes the situation or my view.

    1) We have not had numerous streams from Rivet where they have faced the community. They have only done streams pre release with DTG.

    2) My main issues are not about scenery as they are not a game breaker.

    3) So the fact they have started bug fixing now is seen as an improvement given players have waited months and months for something to happen and posts on their own forum about issues are ignored.

    4) There working more closely with DTG might see some improvement but nothing has happened to date and realise that will take time.

    5) West Cornwall was stopped because it had so many issues.

    My point was that Natalie stated how they had improved over the last year and they haven’t although they maybe being forced to do so now in order to continue to work with DTG. They have released routes and not done anything about bugs some of which seriously effect gameplay for many.
     
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  27. kekanha#4892

    kekanha#4892 Active Member

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    I like to make you one ques
    All this is easier to find responsible, we go directly to the next question. "Who collects money from consumers?" That is responsible, because he is the one who profits the most. there are several companies, but there has to be one that distributes the money. The one that distributes is responsible, because if the work is wrong, do not pay for the service.
     
  28. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    So that's sony, microsoft, epic or valve...
     
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  29. kekanha#4892

    kekanha#4892 Active Member

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    no, those are delivery
     
  30. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    No, when you buy from the Steam store you pay steam who then pay DTG (minus their percentage)
    Same with all the other stores.

    upload_2021-10-22_13-52-29.png
     
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  31. Railfan1985

    Railfan1985 Well-Known Member

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    Frankly i have zero confidence in DTG or anyone else at this point. I don't think any of the companies actually care. Rivets excuses were pathetic. I'm sick of content being thrown out with zero checks.
     
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  32. Wolfovizer

    Wolfovizer Well-Known Member

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    You do realise DTG were given a Vive dev kit in 2015, that is very different from what you have stated. Did you even read the article?
    https://www.htc.com/us/newsroom/2015-03-01-3/
    Untitled.png
     
  33. antwerpcentral

    antwerpcentral Well-Known Member

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    May I note that the "collector" in this case was Paypal. Still confused on what their responsibility in all this is but they are the ones "Who collects money from consumers?"
     
  34. smugstarlord#4202

    smugstarlord#4202 Well-Known Member

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    Rivet are useless. Still haven't fixed Arosa, still haven't fixed IoW and yet people are suprised that, shock horror, their next entry is also broken
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2021
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  35. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    If your method of paying Paypal is your credit card, then the collector of your money is the credit card company. This could get daft :D
     
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  36. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Just as a friendly tip, I would advise you not to post even minimal transaction details on a public forum. :love:
     
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  37. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely, the transaction handler was them, then my card provider, then my bank back to me
    And payal, steam and then DTG going forward
    but in essence none of these are "directly DTG" which I imagine the respondent was alluding to

    Tis fine, nothing on there which a simple two factor authentication model wouldn't ensure confidentiality
     
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  38. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    What is so awful about London Commuter that it shouldn't have been released? It's my favorite route at present, and although I have nits to pick they're very minor.
     
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  39. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    I agree. Each of the Rush Hour routes has some lingering problems, especially Boston, but they are all playable and enjoyable. I think those of us who bought the season ticket got a bargain.
     
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  40. Disintegration7

    Disintegration7 Well-Known Member

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    While it's somewhat platform dependent, I think all 3 Rush Hour routes are fantastic in their own way.

    They're already my most played TSW2 routes. BML and Dresden feel truly alive to me in ways that few (if any) prior routes have. Boston needs to be a bit busier with the Acela and some local freight IMO, but it brings back the urban Northeastern USA we've been missing since NEC:NY didn't make it over.
     
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  41. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Well, we'll have to agree to disagree about Boston, because I can't play it enjoyably with the signaling and safety systems in their current state. It looks nice and the trains are very well modeled, but one can't run to schedule at all and one frequently gets hit with suppression braking for no good reason.
     
  42. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Yes, this is the PS forum and we have to remember that these guys are having serious issues with just about everything.
     
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  43. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    I think what Nat said was valid.

    Granted, Rivet are still far from perfect, however from where they were when Arosa came out it's a leap up from previous.

    - Bug Fixes for Previous Routes + Cornwall (Hence the delay)
    Now I've seen the start of this thread with the counter-arguement of "well it's been months"- It could have been months more, if ever.

    - Transparency
    Rivet have loads of Devblogs, and other things like such on their YouTube channel, and are happy enough to come out on stream and awnser questions. Again, the counter-arguement saying that Jasper seems like he doesn't have a clue - he can't know everything. Often we see Sam or Matt or another one of the DTG people not sure and asking someone else in DTG (usually) - so it's not just a Jasper thing.

    - Scenery Improvements
    The scenery on WCL is miles better than Arosa and even IOW - which is decent, not great, but it's nice enough to look at - Stations are nice, the St Ives branch is wonderful to run up and down, and the view over the ocean is stunning [OPINION], however, if this were as it were with Arosa the route would have been far worse.

    - Working with DTG
    As touched on by others above me, rivet are also recieveing - and clearly listening to - DTG's Feedback to improve - and that's exactly what they are doing.

    It's slow, but it's good progress.

    All these factors combined and, rivet are improving, no doubt.
    (Sounds and their sense of an era are still poor, however).
     
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  44. SBos

    SBos Well-Known Member

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    This post is quite laughable to be honest.

    You state it’s a leap up from where they were with the Arosa route. What leap is that then producing a route that had so many issues they were forced to stop the release. Then you mention bug fixes well the timetable on the Arosa line is completely wrong and they haven’t fixed that despite promises to do so and if you post about this on their own Forum it is ignored.

    As things stand currently there have been no improvements but now they are working closer with DTG so perhaps that may change. The fact something so basic as the timetable on the Arosa route has not been fixed gives me no confidence in their products whatsoever.
     
  45. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    that's a strange sense of humour, I'll say that :D
    Ypu could use that arguement, or be a tad more reasonable and realise they've actually moved to fix it, rather than release an absolute mess.
    Things like totally reworking a timetable are hardly easy, and every fix takes time. Maybe they won't fix it, however for now, that's hardly anyone's position to say yes or no to.

    Your reply only focus on the bug-fixes point I made - ignoring the others. Those are positives, by any definition.

    Cornwall is their priority for now. Again, patience.

    Like them or hate them, it's improvements all round. I've been fortunate enough to play it on Xbox and I quite enjoy the DLC, and love the 150, however it is far from perfect, but it's an improvement.

    P.S. It doesn't need to be excellent to have improved. It just needs to be better than what came before.
     
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  46. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Stopping the release. That in itself is progress.

    "Improvement" <> "good," which seems to be the standard you're applying. "Less bad" also counts as improvement.
     
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  47. ukpetey

    ukpetey Well-Known Member

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    You have also made quite a leap. You don’t know why the Cornwall route has not been released. You make an assumption: “a route that had so many issues”. Is that a fact?

    It might be correct, and it probably is. However you have made a statement seemingly of fact, the truth of which is outside of your likely area of absolute knowledge. Of late TSW is a ‘sh*t show’ and needs fixing in many areas, that’s a given. But let’s stick to facts
     
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  48. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    From what Sam said on Tuesday's stream (a let's play so loads of people wouldn't have expected updates (and those updates were "unofficial")) the gameplay itself was "as expected" (sounds and all), but there were a fair amount of menu issues and so on that means the whole package wasn't polished enough for release
     
  49. SBos

    SBos Well-Known Member

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    Bloody hell your joking right. Timetable fix not easy and maybe they won’t fix it you say. The fact that the timetable was so in accurate on release shows how poor they are. They promised to fix it quickly and here we are 6 months down the line and nothing but your probably right they won’t fix it because their not even bothering to reply to peoples posts on their forum anymore.

    As for Cornwall I’m as patient as anyone the point being they thought it was ready for release.
     
  50. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    When did Arosa release- ah, right.

    Just because they were terrible at one thing doesn't mean they can't improve.

    You can be critical, but don't just blindly & arrogantly bash them, for everyone's sake. It brings down the mood.

    P.S. I'm not joking.
     
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