Beta Testing Routes

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by davidh0501, Oct 23, 2021.

  1. davidh0501

    davidh0501 Well-Known Member

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    Recently a lot of focus has been on Dtg's quality control and Beta testing, culminating with Matt's "Apologia" and the delayed release of West Cornwall.
    Usually the first time we see a new route is a week before it's release, and little can be corrected before the actual launch.

    Would Dtg consider giving us a much earlier view of new routes allowing the knowledgeable members, watching the streams and on the forums, to provide additional feedback. Ensuring that legitimate concerns and omissions etc. could be spotted and dealt with before the release.
    Much like a wider public Beta test.
     
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  2. LastTrainToClarksville

    LastTrainToClarksville Well-Known Member

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    Hmmmmm ... now, why on earth (or any other planet) would DTG be reluctant to allow members of these forums to beta test new DLC?
     
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  3. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    The downside to being involved in beta testing is that you would have to sign a NDA to get access which would rule out pretty much any sort of discussion or comment on any public forum. Which is why despite occasionally being tempted to put myself forward, I prefer to stay in a position where I am free to discuss the positives and negatives without restriction.
     
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  4. davidh0501

    davidh0501 Well-Known Member

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    No. I’m not suggesting we become such.
    Rather that the preview screening takes place before the release date is fixed in stone.
    So any glaring oversights or glitches that have scraped through the testers can be spotted and fixed before release.

    If you read the comments during a preview stream, you can spot the viewers major concerns.
    E.g. Sounds not loud enough, smoke erratic or acceleration not prototypical.
    All fairly straight forward to fix if time is not the priority.

    As Steve Job’s once remarked once you let marketing priorities dictate products, the company suffers.
     
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  5. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    I see what you mean David. Of course whether the company would actually listen to the feedback is another matter. Indeed the same thing can happen with beta testing, if the particular issue is felt to be trivial or non show stopping, by the management. We may yet be proved wrong in the next few days but I get the distinct impression DTG and Rivet intend to forge ahead with release of WCL once the undisclosed issues are sorted.
     
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  6. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    I wonder how many of those who want to be part of the beta team are just interested in getting access to content earlier, rather than being interested in actual testing.
     
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  7. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Indeed! I can vouch that real beta testing is boring and tedious, having to retread the same tasks over and over, then rinse and repeat to check the fix. Going back to the older sims, appeals for help with a route build, 3D objects etc. would elicit loads of offers to play test the finished article - probably sharing with their mates too - but no productive input.
     
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  8. paintbrushguy

    paintbrushguy Well-Known Member

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    I suspect if anything there'd be a paywall for this.
    Just imagining a TSW 2: Beta Test Member Add-on
     
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  9. bescot

    bescot Well-Known Member

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    Agree with Vern, I was one of the initial beta testers for Trainz. Trying to keep up with what they required testing and looking after a young family at the time while working shifts I found it all very difficult. We were given a list of instructions to follow and had to repeat them and supply reports back. Maybe only 5% of the testing involved actual proper gameplay!

    I'd imagine the devs would get rather overwhelmed if there were a 100 testers each giving a different point of view on how they think something should work too.

    Then of course the NDA, and being unable to critique in public forums!
     
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  10. davidh0501

    davidh0501 Well-Known Member

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    Enthusiasts have a wealth of knowledge that Dtg could harness to their advantage.

    Not so much beta testing as a preliminary run through for viewers comments.
     
  11. fabristunt

    fabristunt Well-Known Member

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    We already are betatester. Anybody buying DLCs within the first year of release is getting an unfinished, bugged product. For some, the betatesting just goes on forever... (Looking at you, Arosa).
     
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  12. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    I’ve often thought about whether I would be willing to be a beta tester if they started doing it on consoles. I’m not sure, I think I’d have to try it out. I’d have no problem testing out a route nearing completion to see if it works well and if there are any issues running it on my machine but a more involved process from earlier on in development may eat into the enjoyment of the game as a whole, especially in those circumstances where I may believe some things to be more important than others. I could also certainly give critical feedback on playability and the player experience if not on the total accuracy of the railway side of things, which I think is the current focus of beta testing. Testing if things work properly is no problem, I’ve worked in quality control in other industries where repetitive testing and accurate reporting of results was the whole job. I was getting paid for that though. I couldn’t know for sure if I would find the process rewarding or if I’d be useful to DTG unless I tried it to be honest.

    I’m not sure the wider audience seeing unfinished products in streams would be a good idea though. It would be a nightmare on the forum and provide little satisfaction for all involved I reckon. I also think it would harm sales.
     
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  13. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    You hit the nail on the head Stu. Over the years I built many routes in all three of the big sims but find I rarely played them myself after finishing. You just spend so much time going over things, snagging, testing again that if you haven’t deleted the thing in a fit of rage that you are sick to the sight of it. Which is why I now largely confine myself to building model railway style routes in Trainz, though since N3V botched up SP4 for TRS19 that has entered a bit of hiatus at present.
     
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  14. LastTrainToClarksville

    LastTrainToClarksville Well-Known Member

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    I've had the good fortune of being asked to beta test several TS routes over the years. Yes, it was sometimes tedious, but I also found it rewarding to be part of a process that eventually led to a product, of which I usually received a free copy. Thanks to J. B. Fried and his cohorts.
     
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  15. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    There's more than one kind of beta testing. It's not just a matter of handing over a near release copy of a route to a select number of players and, after a week, asking them " Whada ya think? " Most beta testing is targeted to a specific group, maybe techies or people with advanced knowledge of locomotives or the route in question. And it's usually restricted to a particular aspect of the product, say visual accuracy of a loco, rather than an overall impression. You don't get a chance to give an open-ended opinion, but rather are given very specific parameters about exactly what you're looking at or for.

    I think a lot of people on the forum are probably thinking: " Ooh, I'd like to get my hands on a free copy of Route A and tell DTG exactly what I think of it and all the bugs I can find. " That's not what beta testing is. It's a much more narrow process, and, as has been pointed out, rather tedious, for the most part.

    And the confidentiality agreement would, I think, be stifling to many of us, me included, because it might well extend beyond the particular product being tested to all products from the company. You'd basically be muted in the forums. I think it was mentioned in a recent stream that DTG are very careful who they recruit for beta testing because some testers have ignored the NDA.

    A public beta would be next to useless for DTG. It couldn't be restricted to David's " knowledgeable members " (whoever they are). We all think we're experts and fair and objective. A day's read of the forums would dispel that notion, don't you think?
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2021
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  16. conniethunder

    conniethunder Well-Known Member

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    I agree to having streams much earlier than a set release date.
    Yes, we are all still 'beta' testers, but it would give much more time to correct things like traffic on the wrong side of a road, badly created stations and other simple bugs - like stuck windscreen wipers ;)
     
  17. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Although DTG do that too: but it isn't part of the beta program
     

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