Class 313 First Thoughts

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by s0ggyflannel69, Oct 28, 2021.

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  1. s0ggyflannel69

    s0ggyflannel69 Member

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    as the 313 has just released on xbox, here are my thoughts on this unit.

    bad
    1. unfortunately this pack still includes the ludicrous physics which (for me) is an immersion breaker.
    2. the sounds are very questionable, the motor fan starts after the train starts moving which is the opposite to real life.
    3. there are no brake squeals
    4. there are no camshaft sounds
    5. inside the cab is exterior track clack sounds
    6. when the cab window is open, there is little difference to the sound volume
    7. coach lighting doesn’t work in the centre coach
    8. train exceeds top speed, currently doing 90 on a 0.4% uphill when the top speed of the train is 75mph
    9. aws beep is noticeable quiet
    10. no sensation of speed when travelling, nothing squeaks and there’s no rattles, very quiet too
    11. no opening door chimes, wrong closing door chimes
    12. still lacks the low back seating at the end of each coach
    13. front end lacks the ‘BI’ tag which determines what depot the unit is allocated to

    good
    1. nicely modelled
    2. apart from issues mentioned above the sounds are alright
    3. theres the right amount of LEDs in the marker and tail lights



    overall this pack is a massive letdown and for 313 fans alike is not very accurate in terms of physics however if you’re a generic person who doesn’t know anything about trains this train is a good one.

    here is my score out of 15 for the pack
    sounds: 4/5
    physics: 2/5
    modelling: 4.5/5
    overall: 10.5/15
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2021
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  2. adam.fisher6912

    adam.fisher6912 Member

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    When is it out on the ps4 ? Can't see it in the store
     
  3. lucas_5_5

    lucas_5_5 Well-Known Member

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    Q: Is there a new timetable coming with the 313? If so, you have to own it to have the timetable?
     
  4. JZJ90

    JZJ90 Active Member

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    The new timetable you get with the 313 is a duplicate of the original timetable but it replaces the Seaford services which were run by 377s with the correct 313 which actually runs those services.
     
  5. lucas_5_5

    lucas_5_5 Well-Known Member

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    ok, so there is not any amount of services added...
     
  6. fezza

    fezza Active Member

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    Blimey, twelve months late, all these bugs and no Eastbourne services. You have to wonder what is going on at DTG. I have defended them in the past but this is getting just silly now. They boast about complex physics modelling and then produce this...
     
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  7. GothicMatt

    GothicMatt Active Member

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    The 377s do the runs to Eastbourne where as the 313s run to Seaford and Lewes. I've bought the 313 dlc myself and I've had the cab window open and it's as loud as it should be, these are similar to the 314s on the Cathcart circle route, they break quite quick and they take a bit to speed up but I've had the motor fan run when I was stopping at a station it's very nicely modeled and I've had a nice run so I'm happy with it, the only issue I have is there is no chime when you open the doors but there is a chime when you close the doors
     
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  8. stefan_ar

    stefan_ar New Member

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    ok
     
  9. Trainmania100

    Trainmania100 Well-Known Member

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    So why was there a screenshot of a 313 at Eastbourne if there are no Eastbourne services ?
     
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  10. bobbobberdd

    bobbobberdd Well-Known Member

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    There is a scenario where you go from Eastbourne to Brighton.

    Edit: I've corrected myself
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2021
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  11. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    This looks pretty good and will add a nice bit of variety to proceedings on ECW.

    As soon as they drop the PSN trophies in, I'll buy.
     
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  12. Trainmania100

    Trainmania100 Well-Known Member

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    Enjoying the 313 so far, currently held at a red at Redhill on the lovers walk to selhurst
     
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  13. Trainmania100

    Trainmania100 Well-Known Member

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    Hmm, although I got a spad at stoats next junction, green then a red, I I must have missed a signal oops
     
  14. L89

    L89 Well-Known Member

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    I was playing the tutorial and sure it told me to open the doors from the cab button, not guards panel (previous step was unlock the guards panel).
     
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  15. Bryer

    Bryer Well-Known Member

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    I can't believe nobody has yet mentioned the "working" GSM-R for contacting the signaller. Bloody brilliant addition. Hoping they bring that to all UK rolling stock moving forward.
     
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  16. Redmanb11

    Redmanb11 New Member

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    One smallish problem I've had with the 313 is when I'm braking using notch one, the train sometimes applies full brake application, idk if it's my controller acting up, or if anyone else has had this happen.
     
  17. Bryer

    Bryer Well-Known Member

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    Think that's the dynamic braking system, as if you watch the pressures, they fluctuate under braking. I'm currently trying to re-learn all my braking points.
     
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  18. L89

    L89 Well-Known Member

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    This happens on the gradient down into Lewes. It starts wheelslip with braking 1 and then slows down a lot. I think sanding is applied automatically as the light comes on. It does seem a bit drastic with the speed reduction.
     
  19. Bryer

    Bryer Well-Known Member

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    Sand has that effect.
     
  20. L89

    L89 Well-Known Member

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    Seems a bit excessive.
     
  21. Bryer

    Bryer Well-Known Member

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    Well you're throwing a grit between two polished metal surfaces, it will massively increase the friction.
     
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  22. ehz0689

    ehz0689 Well-Known Member

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    Are the doors suppose to beep while opening and closing?
     
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  23. fezza

    fezza Active Member

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    I thought the stream tonight was hilarious. We were told the physics were wrong but "the physics guy is on holiday" What? Well why not wait till he comes back and fix it before release? Why release something that they know is wrong? We've waited for this for more than twelve months so what has the "physics guy" been doing?

    Do they actually use real world data from operators ( in the way race simulators do) or do they just make it up?
     
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  24. fezza

    fezza Active Member

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    I think it's unlikely a driver would have real world access to physics and engineering data unless he was part of a testing team. He could give an informed opinion on what "feels" right, but unless you've got a stopwatch and can monitor things like tractive effort and braking resistance you are really just guessing.

    PC racing simulators take a huge amount of data from teams running in real world conditions on specific tracks, even to the point of monitoring the impact of brake and tyre temperature. I doubt DTG are anywhere near this sophisticated despite their boasts - and given they don't have a sophisticated physics engine why is performance so poor on consoles?

    Some vehicles don't seem to have a physics model at all. I took the brakes off some wagons and tried to do some fly shunting at the WSR. The wagons didn't move and the heavy loco bounced back. It's a joke really...
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2021
  25. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    That's probabily enough for a consumer-grade product, I don't think ever more serious simators like ZuSi go to such extent to model physics
    With racecars this much data is needed, the simulation of a racecar during the course of a race is a lot more complex to model, while for trains (and for aircrafts as well) it's more important to get right the internal components and how each train works, if you do that well, more or less correct (or acceptable) performance will come naturally.

    For example in the Class 313, the camshaft drive is reproduced well, and you can feel the resistors being excluded one after the other, the switching between shunt, series and parallel is well done as well, the only problem being that the motors output too much power.

    All vehicles have physics, and that's why many of the US freights are shorter than IRL, the physics calculation for every wagon will add up pretty quickly.

    But the interactions gets wonky between uncoupled trains, but if you go at speed, and decouple a wagon behind you, you will see it starting to slow down as the brakes gets applied.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2021
  26. fezza

    fezza Active Member

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    The laws of physics are the same for cars or trains though and getting the basics right (acceleration curves in optimal conditions) would be something at least.

    You are right that modelling a train is slightly easier, but in that case why do DTG make such a hash of it?

    Wheel on rail physics often seem very wrong both in terms of gradients, momentum and lateral movement around curves. It also often seems a wet rail is uniformly slippy, whereas in real life it varies considerably depending on how exposed the location is, whether there is vegetation on the line, local humidity and other factors. Just as a racetrack has variable grip levels so do rails at different points in a journey. Reading the rails and being aware of danger spots is crucial to being a safe driver and avoiding spads. That level of detail is just not modelled, making driving a rather empty experience at times.
     
  27. owenroser19

    owenroser19 Well-Known Member

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    I can't believe there's so much wrong with it, it was in development for over a year..
     

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